trail-gear vs. marlin SAS kit
02-27-2006, 08:01 AM
#21
FormerVendor
Originally Posted by cubuff4runner
There has been a pissing match over this, because Chris left Marlin and everybody said he stole the designs so basically there is no design and development cost associated. I am not going to be the peson to say what is right or wrong, but that is my understanding of why it is so cheap.
I will do my best to review and correct all of the misleading and un-true information in these post.
In regard to stealing designs and not having to pay for them....I hold a BS degree in mechanical Engineering and spent the last 2 years drawing, designing and sourcing the parts that are sold from Trail-Gear. I also paid tens of thousands of dollars to a personal friend who is also an engineer to help with the work load associated with the designing of a full off-road product line. What you have stated above is 100% not true. Please feel free to come by the shop any time and I will show you each and every component drawing personally.
02-27-2006, 08:04 AM
#22
FormerVendor
Originally Posted by 4rnr
Ok this is very complicated Ive talked to very good sources (in fact the absolute best sources) geiger is interested in the $ aspect of the buisness, always has been ever since he left all pro for marlin and tryed to bury all pro. Now he is doing the same thing to marlin. A good example of this is the springs, marlin used to offer VERY high quality USA springs, then geiger got them to use the import springs (which dont get a good wrap) now they have brought back the USA springs and are taking the high end road that has always treated them well, not the $ road. Geiger wants the "4wheelparts" of toyota rock crawling, theres no problem with that but just understand who and what is involved here. I bought the marlin kit, and am happy I did, I know the trail gear kit MIGHT make more sense money wise but I am doing this once and I NEED it to work!! plus marlin is back to using the springs that many beleive are on par with alcan and deaver. A sas isnt a place to save a couple hundred $'s. There is a lot more involved but that is the overview, that ive got from talking to "people"
I like to reward EXCELENT customer service with my buisness.
I like to reward EXCELENT customer service with my buisness.
Your post is completely untrue.
Matt
Last edited by Trail-Gear; 02-27-2006 at 10:47 AM.
02-27-2006, 08:07 AM
#23
FormerVendor
Originally Posted by BruceTS
There is definately a play to put Marlin out of business, so it's really up to the consumer to decide. Personally, Marlin is the type of person you want in this industry, he's always going out of his way to assist. In the case with trail-Gear they are just sending the work overseas and making copies of all Marlin's products...
Your post is not true, you do not know my business plans. The product is not a copy. I have been selling my designs to many other companies in the industry.
Thanks,
Matt
02-27-2006, 08:11 AM
#24
FormerVendor
Originally Posted by dragr1
Marlin is one of the best in the industry in my opinion. His customer service is top notch and he always responds to any problems asap. When I had a problem with the gears I ordered, he fixed it no problem and had me new gears on the way on the day I called him. Cheaper may be better from a $ standpoint, but remember you get what you pay for. If it were me, I'd pay a little more for the great customer service and the fact that I know if there is a problem it will be handled right away.
Last edited by Trail-Gear; 02-27-2006 at 10:48 AM.
02-27-2006, 08:16 AM
#25
FormerVendor
Originally Posted by SEAN_at_TLT
Trail-Gear has the finacial backing (supported by a multi-million dollar industrial supplier) to do HUGE volume production runs, combine that with the fact that they haven't had to spend much money on R&D because all of their products were designed on another companies budget (All-Pro & Marlin) and you have a formula for inexpensive products. I've been told that recently Trail-Gear's owner purchased one of everything from All-Pro so he could send the products as samples to China for reproduction at a lower cost. Then he called All-Pro asking if they wanted to buy the knock-off parts. If that story is true, and I have no reason to believe it isn't as I was told it by a reliable source, then in my book that is not a company I'd want to do business with.
I've also been told that Geiger tried to negotiate a contract that would have brought Marlin a partner (Trail-Gear) but in the fine print it stipualted that Marlin himself would be removed from the partnership in 1-year's time. I didn't see that contract personally but again I was told of this from a reliable source.
With so many reputable compaines with reasonably priced products to choose from why go with the cheapest option if all it does is save you a couple bucks at the expense of the overall good of the industry?
I've also been told that Geiger tried to negotiate a contract that would have brought Marlin a partner (Trail-Gear) but in the fine print it stipualted that Marlin himself would be removed from the partnership in 1-year's time. I didn't see that contract personally but again I was told of this from a reliable source.
With so many reputable compaines with reasonably priced products to choose from why go with the cheapest option if all it does is save you a couple bucks at the expense of the overall good of the industry?
1.) I already answered this in a previous post. TG did not design products using other companies budgets. I designed the products on my own time and also worked directly with many companies to make their own propietary designs.
2) The information regarding Marlin contract for employment is personal information and is not true.
Last edited by Trail-Gear; 02-27-2006 at 10:49 AM.
02-27-2006, 08:28 AM
#26
Registered User
Originally Posted by Flygtenstein
For those who are new to the game, Geiger started at All Pro and then went to Marlin. Upon arrival, there was a striking similarity between websites and product lines. Then Marlin was getting bought and things fell through. Geiger went to Trail Gear. This time the twist is Trail Gear was a Marlin supplier. Now they can sell all the stuff cheaper since they are the primary source and distributor.
Lets get this back on-topic. Comparing the two SAS kits.
Last edited by Cebby; 02-27-2006 at 08:30 AM.
02-27-2006, 08:44 AM
#27
FormerVendor
Originally Posted by JamesD
Why don't you start a thread and COMPLETELY explain yourself without leaving anything out. This way it may give a perception that your a stand up kind of guy. So far on this board and another board I keep hearing Marlin this, Marlin that. Their must be a reason why so many want to stick with Marlin, right? You need to come straight out and be honest. Your honesty will probably grant you more business.
James
James
I Matt Messer have been wheeling Toyota's for almost 15 years. I noticed over time that I could design and manufacture many of the parts that I was purchasing for my truck. The first product that I designed was the dual case crossmember. After that I designed the very first forged high steer arm. Well as you might imagine, one part led to another and on and on the part design went.
Trail-Gear has been in the back of my mind for several years because owning my own off-road business has always been a dream of mine. After months of consideration I approached a local company to inquire about purchasing the company, I thought that this would the quickest path to success. After all breaking into the industry with new company name and product can be a difficult task. Things were moving forward at a good pace with the purchasing of the company that I approached when the deal started to break apart. After contracts were signed and the company was already moving into the new building, the owner of the company that I was buying wanted to re-negotiate the deal. Without giving personal detail, the entire deal crumbled in my hands. As a result, the company moved out of my building and Trail-Gear was born. I respect all parties decisions that were involved in the deal, so no details will be listed in this post.
Trail-Gear is fanatically customer driven and will supply the highest quality products at an affordable price. Please give Trail-Gear a try, you will not be sorry. We have a very dynamic staff that are experts in the field of 4x4 off-road supply.
I hope that this post sheds some light on the question that you may have had. My door and phone is always open. Please feel free to call me directly at any time 559-252-4950
Best Regards,
Matthew Messer
Last edited by Trail-Gear; 02-27-2006 at 10:01 AM.
02-27-2006, 10:48 AM
#29
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Originally Posted by Trail-Gear
I will do my best to review and correct all of the misleading and un-true information in these post.
In regard to stealing designs and not having to pay for them....I hold a BS degree in mechanical Engineering and spent the last 2 years drawing, designing and sourcing the parts that are sold from Trail-Gear. I also paid tens of thousands of dollars to a personal friend who is also an engineer to help with the work load associated with the designing of a full off-road product line. What you have stated above is 100% not true. Please feel free to come by the shop any time and I will show you each and every component drawing personally.
In regard to stealing designs and not having to pay for them....I hold a BS degree in mechanical Engineering and spent the last 2 years drawing, designing and sourcing the parts that are sold from Trail-Gear. I also paid tens of thousands of dollars to a personal friend who is also an engineer to help with the work load associated with the designing of a full off-road product line. What you have stated above is 100% not true. Please feel free to come by the shop any time and I will show you each and every component drawing personally.
02-27-2006, 03:09 PM
#30
Contributing Member
Thanks for the replies ,Matt and Chris. I have dealt with trail gear and will continue. they have excellent customer service. Thie products (that I have recieved) are top notch. Exactly what I would expect from them.
02-27-2006, 04:11 PM
#31
Matt, Chris -thanks for the replies and for keeping them from getting out of hand. I tried to keep my post based basically on customer service b/c all of the other stuff that has been said I have knowledge of and I don't like bashing someone until I have done personal business with them. Welcome to yotatech and I look forward to seeing your products.
02-27-2006, 05:06 PM
#32
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Originally Posted by Cebby
Lets get this back on-topic. Comparing the two SAS kits.
Knuckle rebuild kit
Wheel bearing kits
Differential armor
Upper axle gusset
02-27-2006, 06:39 PM
#35
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If you want anything to do with transmissions and transfer cases... Marlin is the guy to do it.
Chris does know suspension... but its going to be pretty much the same product since he is the one who brought it to Marlin Crawler.
The difference is the name (IFS eliminator kit) and the price.
Chris does know suspension... but its going to be pretty much the same product since he is the one who brought it to Marlin Crawler.
The difference is the name (IFS eliminator kit) and the price.
02-28-2006, 03:03 AM
#38
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Nice job Matt and Chris 
It's really getting old to see these kind of posts from people that have no first hand knowledge. IF you are repeating something you 'heard' from a reliable source it's wrong and you need to stop. PMs, emails or face-to-face chit chat is the place for that, not a public board.
Bottom line, it's no one's damn business but the parties involved and the results of Chris going to TG is more choices for yota owners. So we are all intelligent consumers and will make our choices accordingly.
Treat all the vendors the same. With respect and dignity and if you disagree, the power in the protest, simply shop somewhere else. It will have more of an impact than spouting off on a BBS.
It's really getting old to see these kind of posts from people that have no first hand knowledge. IF you are repeating something you 'heard' from a reliable source it's wrong and you need to stop. PMs, emails or face-to-face chit chat is the place for that, not a public board. Bottom line, it's no one's damn business but the parties involved and the results of Chris going to TG is more choices for yota owners. So we are all intelligent consumers and will make our choices accordingly.
Treat all the vendors the same. With respect and dignity and if you disagree, the power in the protest, simply shop somewhere else. It will have more of an impact than spouting off on a BBS.
02-28-2006, 05:00 AM
#39
Registered User
Knowledge is power.
Sharing information from primary sources is different from flinging poo. Progating hearsay helps no one.
There are many options, be an informed consumer.
Sharing information from primary sources is different from flinging poo. Progating hearsay helps no one.
There are many options, be an informed consumer.
02-28-2006, 05:57 AM
#40
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Originally Posted by formulatoy#36
Treat all the vendors the same. With respect and dignity and if you disagree, the power in the protest, simply shop somewhere else. It will have more of an impact than spouting off on a BBS.
But I must disagree with your final point.
All vendors are not created equal, nor do they all deserve the same level of respect. Some go out of their way to service their customers, some would much rather move a lot of product than have anything to do with customer service. By your logic, Nitrous Enterprises and Marlin would fall in the same basket.
This forum is a PERFECT place for people to pass along their experiences with various vendors, good or bad.
You are confusing the purpose of this forum. It is NOT a forum for advertisers to push their goods. It is a community of users, sharing their wants, needs and experiences. Sometimes those are good, sometimes those are bad. Sometimes people in the industry develop a much deserved reputation that precedes them and there is nothing wrong with that being made clear to others.
We are not here to pander to the vendors. If they don't like what is being said about them, then they need to fix that with customer service/better products/who they hire.
Vendors don't own this place, users do. I would much rather hear the experience of one real user than have multiple people from the same vendor trot out their dog and pony show and try to sell me their goods.
Last edited by WATRD; 02-28-2006 at 06:16 AM.
