Dana 60's for SAS
11-22-2003, 08:52 PM
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Dana 60's for SAS
Well, I was going to run a Dana 44 front and a Dana 60 rear. But as luck would have it and help from the man upstairs, I got my hands on a 97 Ford Reverse Cut Dana 60 for only $300. Yes your reading it right $300 for a Reverse Cut Dana 60. Poor guys cut there own pockets on that one!
Now, Yes I have to have the axle redone, but it's a Reverse Cut. How lucky can someone get for only that little amount. I have a Dana 44 out of a K-5 Blazer. I will sell it for what I bought it for, $400. I dont know what the gear ratio is because I was going to put 5.38's on the inside plus shorten it!
It looks like I wont be able to get everything before I do the swap. Looks like I am going to have to do everything at once. Match up the axle to the SAS. I was going to do the SAS with Gibby, because he did his, but because I am talking to Jason at S&N Fab, I will probably have them do it! Now its just coming up with the money!
I am hoping I can change the steering ball joints to king pins. So if can I will. But I have a Dana 60 Reverse Cut now.
Now, Yes I have to have the axle redone, but it's a Reverse Cut. How lucky can someone get for only that little amount. I have a Dana 44 out of a K-5 Blazer. I will sell it for what I bought it for, $400. I dont know what the gear ratio is because I was going to put 5.38's on the inside plus shorten it!
It looks like I wont be able to get everything before I do the swap. Looks like I am going to have to do everything at once. Match up the axle to the SAS. I was going to do the SAS with Gibby, because he did his, but because I am talking to Jason at S&N Fab, I will probably have them do it! Now its just coming up with the money!
I am hoping I can change the steering ball joints to king pins. So if can I will. But I have a Dana 60 Reverse Cut now.
12-10-2003, 08:26 PM
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It's a good thing I figure high on my prices. I am getting the Front 60 totally retubed because it has a driver side drop. I need it for a passenger side drop. That will cost me roughly $400 and the Rear 60 will cost about $300 to have it shortened with the axles included. Than I will have to get springs. And then off to SAS land I go! I will be FULLY locked by the time I get done! Right now its all about the money(which I dont have) but its fun!!!!
12-10-2003, 08:50 PM
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Re: Dana 60's for SAS
Originally posted by 1WiCkEd_RuNNer
Well, I was going to run a Dana 44 front and a Dana 60 rear. But as luck would have it and help from the man upstairs, I got my hands on a 97 Ford Reverse Cut Dana 60 for only $300. Yes your reading it right $300 for a Reverse Cut Dana 60. Poor guys cut there own pockets on that one!
Now, Yes I have to have the axle redone, but it's a Reverse Cut. How lucky can someone get for only that little amount. I have a Dana 44 out of a K-5 Blazer. I will sell it for what I bought it for, $400. I dont know what the gear ratio is because I was going to put 5.38's on the inside plus shorten it!
It looks like I wont be able to get everything before I do the swap. Looks like I am going to have to do everything at once. Match up the axle to the SAS. I was going to do the SAS with Gibby, because he did his, but because I am talking to Jason at S&N Fab, I will probably have them do it! Now its just coming up with the money!
I am hoping I can change the steering ball joints to king pins. So if can I will. But I have a Dana 60 Reverse Cut now.
Well, I was going to run a Dana 44 front and a Dana 60 rear. But as luck would have it and help from the man upstairs, I got my hands on a 97 Ford Reverse Cut Dana 60 for only $300. Yes your reading it right $300 for a Reverse Cut Dana 60. Poor guys cut there own pockets on that one!
Now, Yes I have to have the axle redone, but it's a Reverse Cut. How lucky can someone get for only that little amount. I have a Dana 44 out of a K-5 Blazer. I will sell it for what I bought it for, $400. I dont know what the gear ratio is because I was going to put 5.38's on the inside plus shorten it!
It looks like I wont be able to get everything before I do the swap. Looks like I am going to have to do everything at once. Match up the axle to the SAS. I was going to do the SAS with Gibby, because he did his, but because I am talking to Jason at S&N Fab, I will probably have them do it! Now its just coming up with the money!
I am hoping I can change the steering ball joints to king pins. So if can I will. But I have a Dana 60 Reverse Cut now.
If you can afford to do so, I would, will give you a stronger front plus better steering options....
12-10-2003, 09:31 PM
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Wicked Runner, we can do the SAS if you wanna save some money. You and I are both in agreement about having the axles modified professionally. I'd have gone with Crash, but he said that he couldn't do the rear and it made sense to get everything done in one place. S&N will do awesome work - but I still wish Crash had the jig to do the rears.
I'm going to have the rear caliper conversion done at the same time since the drum and pads on the set I'm getting are worn out.
I wouldn't mind some caliper suggestions. I'm staying with the 8 lug. The front was already modified to run a 15" wheel. Based on the recommendation of Crash, I'm going to go 62" WMS - WMS on the front and 61" on the rear. I have the 39.5 x 13.50 IROKs in the garage now waiting to be put on the axles.
Jesse at High Angle Driveline is sending me the yokes that I'll need.
I've decided to not go with the Full hydro and stick with the hysteer. I may run into some problems with the pitman arm hitting the tie rod, but I don't know on some of this until I get everything here. With almost 40" tires, the front axle's either going to have to go farther forward or I'll be cutting back into the rear fender wells to make them fit.
The rear should be able to fit with some moderate trimming. The 37s fit without any problems in the rear.
I'm dumping the Johnny joing shackles from AP. The allow for too much side to side movement of the rear drivetrain. The drive shaft is hitting the gas tank skid plate, which it never did prior to the use of these shackles. I love the Orbit Eyes up front and am pretty convinced that I'll do this in the rear too.
Now, if we just had a motor that could turn these tires!!!!
You realize that we're gonna look like twins
Oh well, I could be twins with someone worse than Wicker Runner
I'm going to have the rear caliper conversion done at the same time since the drum and pads on the set I'm getting are worn out.
I wouldn't mind some caliper suggestions. I'm staying with the 8 lug. The front was already modified to run a 15" wheel. Based on the recommendation of Crash, I'm going to go 62" WMS - WMS on the front and 61" on the rear. I have the 39.5 x 13.50 IROKs in the garage now waiting to be put on the axles.
Jesse at High Angle Driveline is sending me the yokes that I'll need.
I've decided to not go with the Full hydro and stick with the hysteer. I may run into some problems with the pitman arm hitting the tie rod, but I don't know on some of this until I get everything here. With almost 40" tires, the front axle's either going to have to go farther forward or I'll be cutting back into the rear fender wells to make them fit.
The rear should be able to fit with some moderate trimming. The 37s fit without any problems in the rear.
I'm dumping the Johnny joing shackles from AP. The allow for too much side to side movement of the rear drivetrain. The drive shaft is hitting the gas tank skid plate, which it never did prior to the use of these shackles. I love the Orbit Eyes up front and am pretty convinced that I'll do this in the rear too.
Now, if we just had a motor that could turn these tires!!!!
You realize that we're gonna look like twins
Oh well, I could be twins with someone worse than Wicker Runner
12-10-2003, 09:33 PM
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Originally posted by upndair
I'm dumping the Johnny joing shackles from AP. The allow for too much side to side movement of the rear drivetrain. The drive shaft is hitting the gas tank skid plate, which it never did prior to the use of these shackles. I love the Orbit Eyes up front and am pretty convinced that I'll do this in the rear too.
I'm dumping the Johnny joing shackles from AP. The allow for too much side to side movement of the rear drivetrain. The drive shaft is hitting the gas tank skid plate, which it never did prior to the use of these shackles. I love the Orbit Eyes up front and am pretty convinced that I'll do this in the rear too.
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12-10-2003, 09:44 PM
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It was the Orbit Eyes that we discussed, but to be honest, they've been fantastic on the front end. If I have the truck sitting on a side hill (even my driveway) the orbit eyes twist a little but the every thing seems pretty centered,
The rear however, get's all bent out of shape on anything by flat surfaces. My thought is that the Johnny joing shackle allows for too much freedom of movement side to side, where are the Orbit Eye just allows the spring to move with less side to side strain.
I get more articulation from my 42" springs in the front than I do from my 56" springs in the rear.
I wouldn't go with the Orbit Eyes on both ends of the spring -although AOR says it's OK in the rear. I ramped 870 before the Johnny joints were put on, now it's about 900. For just that little bit of articulation, the loss of stability and the problems with the drive shaft rubbing weren't worth it.
The AOR springs also stood up to the stress. I needed a helper spring about 6 months out with the AP springs. I wish AOR had better customer service cause I think they have something right here, but 8-10 weeks for delivery and then 8-10 more weeks till you acutally get it, really sucks. I know customer service is one of the most common complaints in this industry. I wish the Orbit Eyes were available elsewhere besides AOR.
I got my crawler case from inchworm gears. This guy was awesome. Same specs or better than Marlin, he had the stuff in stock and shipped when he promised, actually returned a phone call and I have a warranty issue, he's looking after it 18 months later without a question. I wish all these companies could have service like this. He also was about the only guy who had any of the Budbuilt crossmembers in stock. If someone like him sold Orbit Eye's I'd be all over them!
The rear however, get's all bent out of shape on anything by flat surfaces. My thought is that the Johnny joing shackle allows for too much freedom of movement side to side, where are the Orbit Eye just allows the spring to move with less side to side strain.
I get more articulation from my 42" springs in the front than I do from my 56" springs in the rear.
I wouldn't go with the Orbit Eyes on both ends of the spring -although AOR says it's OK in the rear. I ramped 870 before the Johnny joints were put on, now it's about 900. For just that little bit of articulation, the loss of stability and the problems with the drive shaft rubbing weren't worth it.
The AOR springs also stood up to the stress. I needed a helper spring about 6 months out with the AP springs. I wish AOR had better customer service cause I think they have something right here, but 8-10 weeks for delivery and then 8-10 more weeks till you acutally get it, really sucks. I know customer service is one of the most common complaints in this industry. I wish the Orbit Eyes were available elsewhere besides AOR.
I got my crawler case from inchworm gears. This guy was awesome. Same specs or better than Marlin, he had the stuff in stock and shipped when he promised, actually returned a phone call and I have a warranty issue, he's looking after it 18 months later without a question. I wish all these companies could have service like this. He also was about the only guy who had any of the Budbuilt crossmembers in stock. If someone like him sold Orbit Eye's I'd be all over them!
12-15-2003, 09:58 PM
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So the allpro springs aren't worth the money in your opinion? Orbit Eyes are the way to go huh... They're available from AOR? Let me know I'm in the market for front and rear springs and I want the best performance and flex for the buck..... Thanks.
Last edited by lcopelan22; 12-15-2003 at 09:59 PM.
12-15-2003, 10:17 PM
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I saw these for sale... don't know if anyone cares
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...1&highlight=az
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...1&highlight=az
12-16-2003, 06:48 AM
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Originally posted by lcopelan22
So the allpro springs aren't worth the money in your opinion? Orbit Eyes are the way to go huh... They're available from AOR? Let me know I'm in the market for front and rear springs and I want the best performance and flex for the buck..... Thanks.
So the allpro springs aren't worth the money in your opinion? Orbit Eyes are the way to go huh... They're available from AOR? Let me know I'm in the market for front and rear springs and I want the best performance and flex for the buck..... Thanks.
I'll be replacing the 3 main springs to save a little money and using the rest of the existing spring pack.
12-16-2003, 06:26 PM
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Originally posted by upndair
For the money the Allpro springs are good. They are a little stiff for the pickups but work well for the heavier 4Runner. They do not flex as well as the Orbit eyes. The springs are both made by Alcan, it's the Orbit Eye that's different.
For the money the Allpro springs are good. They are a little stiff for the pickups but work well for the heavier 4Runner. They do not flex as well as the Orbit eyes. The springs are both made by Alcan, it's the Orbit Eye that's different.
12-16-2003, 08:48 PM
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I can't remember who they're shopping them out to now, but every time someone claimed that on the PBB Geiger would raise a stink about it. Strangely enough that's the only thread that I can find now, seems they've been deleting the controversial threads lately. Remember all the problems people were having with their springs sagging like crazy and leaning? That was the new company they switched to...
I've never heard complaints from ANYONE with Alcan built springs, and I had no problems whatsoever with my last pair.
Originally posted by Chris Geiger
Why change from Alcan? Most people that call us don't want to wait even a week to get their springs. Telling them it's going to take 8 + weeks to get them caused too many problems. The second reason was quality. When we ordered 5 sets of Alcan spring all at the same time all the same way we expected to get 5 sets of similar springs. What we got were 10 different springs. We people bought them from us the return rate was about 50%. Alcan did not pay for warranty shipping, so we ended up paying for shipping to return them. The Alcan spring I got for the front of my 4Runner came with the spring pins in different locations, one 3/4" forward of the other. Alcan is a small operation with springs made by hand. They simply can't duplicate the same spring over and over with any consistency. So we sought out a larger spring distributor that could reproduce the quality and quantity our customers are looking for. I would call Alcan a Cracker Jack operation compared to the modern computer controlled benders that our springs are made on now.
Why change from Alcan? Most people that call us don't want to wait even a week to get their springs. Telling them it's going to take 8 + weeks to get them caused too many problems. The second reason was quality. When we ordered 5 sets of Alcan spring all at the same time all the same way we expected to get 5 sets of similar springs. What we got were 10 different springs. We people bought them from us the return rate was about 50%. Alcan did not pay for warranty shipping, so we ended up paying for shipping to return them. The Alcan spring I got for the front of my 4Runner came with the spring pins in different locations, one 3/4" forward of the other. Alcan is a small operation with springs made by hand. They simply can't duplicate the same spring over and over with any consistency. So we sought out a larger spring distributor that could reproduce the quality and quantity our customers are looking for. I would call Alcan a Cracker Jack operation compared to the modern computer controlled benders that our springs are made on now.
I've never heard complaints from ANYONE with Alcan built springs, and I had no problems whatsoever with my last pair.
12-17-2003, 08:15 AM
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Perch Heights
OK, another question in this thread. Does anyone know or have an educated guess as to how much higher the perch sits off the ground on the Dana 60 vs the 82 Toy solid axle? Yes, assume identical tires.
I'm trying to find out how much additional lift to expect and accomdate for, with the Dana 60s vs the curret Toy front end I am running?
I'm trying to find out how much additional lift to expect and accomdate for, with the Dana 60s vs the curret Toy front end I am running?
01-03-2004, 08:48 AM
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Took axles to S&N Fab. Well actually took my set of 60's and Upndair's set of 60's at the same time. Upndair's set was realy sick. They are all ready set up for 3 link I think. They came off a rock crawler. Upndair will have to just bolt his on. Mine on the other hand will have to wait as I will have to get the springs for the SAS! I am going to go with a set of Orbital Eyes on the front and rear! I am going to have to build in stages. After the SAS I will be doing a crawler transfer case set up. But for right now, I am sooooooooo looking forward to a my SAS! I will be running 5.38's and a rear locker for now. Dont have the money be be locked front and rear!
01-14-2004, 08:40 PM
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Whaddy you guys/gals think about my reasoning and options on this?
I'm getting a strong push from Jason to go 6 lug vs the 8 lug that's already there. I already have my new 8 lug wheels with tires mounted. I've seen a very good setup to adapt a Chevy 1 ton master cylinder to the Toy booster, so I'm confident in getting enough fluid for the larger calipers required by 8 lug setups. Are there any disadvantages that I'm not seeing here? BTW, the calipers have already been modified to fit 15" wheels.
I'm having the front shortened to 64" WMS-WMS which will end up with 79" total width (outside of tread to outside of tread). That's only 1" wider than my front currently is. I'd kinda like a slightly wider stance since I'm top heavy, but with my 4" fender flares I can handle the 79" and not get pulled over at EVERY stop light.
The front had drive flanges made rather than hubs. Chris Patrick, the guy I bought the axles from says they when he converted to 35 spline axles, he had flanges make rather than going with weaker hubs. It would seem that I could put hubs on if I chose. His reasoning was that the flanges were stronger and since it has an ARB locker and being used on a trail rig, having the front turn full time wasn't an issue. My rig does minimal road driving since I work at home and we have the family van. I am putting less than 5000 miles per year on the rig. Should I stay with the drive flanges or buck up for new hubs?
The rear presents it's own challenges. It's a Dana 61, full floater with 35 spline axles and an ARB locker. Jason says that the housing is bent (and Chris denies it). I guess that shortening a full floater rear is very difficult (and this is part of the reason why Jason thinks I should go 6 lug). Jason feels that he'd convert this to 6 lug and a semi floater for less money than shortening the full floater and stay 8 lug. I should mention that we're doing a disc brake conversion in the rear. The brakes are pretty worn so it makes sense to conversion while all the work's getting done. How difficult is it to disassemble a rear housing to the point where the housing could be shortened? I can save on ton o dough by doing this and it looks like it's getting pretty spendy already. I'm comfortable tearing into my Toy housing but have never taken a Dana apart before.
I'm planning on 62" WMS - WMS for the rear.
Lemme know what you think.
I'm getting a strong push from Jason to go 6 lug vs the 8 lug that's already there. I already have my new 8 lug wheels with tires mounted. I've seen a very good setup to adapt a Chevy 1 ton master cylinder to the Toy booster, so I'm confident in getting enough fluid for the larger calipers required by 8 lug setups. Are there any disadvantages that I'm not seeing here? BTW, the calipers have already been modified to fit 15" wheels.
I'm having the front shortened to 64" WMS-WMS which will end up with 79" total width (outside of tread to outside of tread). That's only 1" wider than my front currently is. I'd kinda like a slightly wider stance since I'm top heavy, but with my 4" fender flares I can handle the 79" and not get pulled over at EVERY stop light.
The front had drive flanges made rather than hubs. Chris Patrick, the guy I bought the axles from says they when he converted to 35 spline axles, he had flanges make rather than going with weaker hubs. It would seem that I could put hubs on if I chose. His reasoning was that the flanges were stronger and since it has an ARB locker and being used on a trail rig, having the front turn full time wasn't an issue. My rig does minimal road driving since I work at home and we have the family van. I am putting less than 5000 miles per year on the rig. Should I stay with the drive flanges or buck up for new hubs?
The rear presents it's own challenges. It's a Dana 61, full floater with 35 spline axles and an ARB locker. Jason says that the housing is bent (and Chris denies it). I guess that shortening a full floater rear is very difficult (and this is part of the reason why Jason thinks I should go 6 lug). Jason feels that he'd convert this to 6 lug and a semi floater for less money than shortening the full floater and stay 8 lug. I should mention that we're doing a disc brake conversion in the rear. The brakes are pretty worn so it makes sense to conversion while all the work's getting done. How difficult is it to disassemble a rear housing to the point where the housing could be shortened? I can save on ton o dough by doing this and it looks like it's getting pretty spendy already. I'm comfortable tearing into my Toy housing but have never taken a Dana apart before.
I'm planning on 62" WMS - WMS for the rear.
Lemme know what you think.
02-01-2004, 06:17 PM
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Flippin' SWEEEEETT
I got the Toyota stuff off my rig today and the Dana 60 front is sitting in place.
With the axle moved forward 2" there seems to be LOTS of clearance on the back side. With a little trimming I can have the front side completely clear also. However, with that positioning, the tie rod will hit the pitman arm when the left side compresses. This was a problem that I was worried about. It may be possible however to heat up the pitman arm, bending it up and out of the way a little. OR I can drop the bump stop down - I'd prefer not to if I don't have to.
I'd like to keep it this far forward for a couple of reasons. My approach angle improves, I won't have to adjust the length of the front driveshaft.
I wonder how that bending of the pitman arm would work?
I got the Toyota stuff off my rig today and the Dana 60 front is sitting in place.
With the axle moved forward 2" there seems to be LOTS of clearance on the back side. With a little trimming I can have the front side completely clear also. However, with that positioning, the tie rod will hit the pitman arm when the left side compresses. This was a problem that I was worried about. It may be possible however to heat up the pitman arm, bending it up and out of the way a little. OR I can drop the bump stop down - I'd prefer not to if I don't have to.
I'd like to keep it this far forward for a couple of reasons. My approach angle improves, I won't have to adjust the length of the front driveshaft.
I wonder how that bending of the pitman arm would work?
02-01-2004, 06:22 PM
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Originally posted by upndair
Flippin' SWEEEEETT
I got the Toyota stuff off my rig today and the Dana 60 front is sitting in place.
With the axle moved forward 2" there seems to be LOTS of clearance on the back side. With a little trimming I can have the front side completely clear also. However, with that positioning, the tie rod will hit the pitman arm when the left side compresses. This was a problem that I was worried about. It may be possible however to heat up the pitman arm, bending it up and out of the way a little. OR I can drop the bump stop down - I'd prefer not to if I don't have to.
I'd like to keep it this far forward for a couple of reasons. My approach angle improves, I won't have to adjust the length of the front driveshaft.
I wonder how that bending of the pitman arm would work?
Flippin' SWEEEEETT
I got the Toyota stuff off my rig today and the Dana 60 front is sitting in place.
With the axle moved forward 2" there seems to be LOTS of clearance on the back side. With a little trimming I can have the front side completely clear also. However, with that positioning, the tie rod will hit the pitman arm when the left side compresses. This was a problem that I was worried about. It may be possible however to heat up the pitman arm, bending it up and out of the way a little. OR I can drop the bump stop down - I'd prefer not to if I don't have to.
I'd like to keep it this far forward for a couple of reasons. My approach angle improves, I won't have to adjust the length of the front driveshaft.
I wonder how that bending of the pitman arm would work?
02-01-2004, 06:27 PM
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Originally posted by crash
If you "DO" heat and bend the pitman, make sure to not cool it off or you will make it brittle...
If you "DO" heat and bend the pitman, make sure to not cool it off or you will make it brittle...
By not cooling it off, you mean just let it cool naturally, don't dunk it in water?
