Manual Or Auto for crawling?
03-21-2007, 04:04 PM
#1
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Manual Or Auto for crawling?
As i said in a previous thread im building up a 1975 datsun 4x4. Solid axles all around plenty of lift with leaf packs, gona flex a ton and will be used for rock crawling.
When i put in a new engine/tranny is it better to go with manual transmission or automatic transmission for crawling? Note that the truck has rack and pinnon not power assist.
In my oppinion manual is usually better but i have had problems rock crawling with it because of the clutch, and its ability to be burnt through quickly when trying to controll the vehicle going up a steep obstacle.
im not sure if it would be wise to go manual with a dual friction clutch and what not or if auto would be easier and more durable with a tranny cooler.
WHAT DO YOU THINK?
When i put in a new engine/tranny is it better to go with manual transmission or automatic transmission for crawling? Note that the truck has rack and pinnon not power assist.
In my oppinion manual is usually better but i have had problems rock crawling with it because of the clutch, and its ability to be burnt through quickly when trying to controll the vehicle going up a steep obstacle.
im not sure if it would be wise to go manual with a dual friction clutch and what not or if auto would be easier and more durable with a tranny cooler.
WHAT DO YOU THINK?
03-21-2007, 04:08 PM
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Automatic. Set the crawler in super low and ride the brakes at will to slow it down. That and with the auto you'll have slightly more tourque at the lower RPMs.
03-21-2007, 04:23 PM
#3
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simple answer: auto.
It has been discussed at length.
If you go with a manual, PM FredTJ. Hes big into rock crawling and runs a manual. He can give you hints and tips on how to keep from roasting clutches.
It has been discussed at length.
If you go with a manual, PM FredTJ. Hes big into rock crawling and runs a manual. He can give you hints and tips on how to keep from roasting clutches.
03-21-2007, 05:18 PM
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Forget autos.
At least in my opinion manuals are way better. My favorite feature over an auto is the fact that if and instatly when I need to, I can disengage the drivetrain. Best time to do this is if you ever have to spin your tires to get over anything and your going up then start slipping down, when you hit the bottom it will shock your drivetrain and end up braking parts. Sure you can say I won't spin the tires ever and drive it easy to get around that issue but it always comes in handy.
Another time manuals have saved my ass is when I'm heading up a steep obsticle and a front tire lifts into the air. My truck is about to roll to the side or maybe even almost straight back. Solution stomp the cluch and shoot backwards to stop the roll. Good luck getting the auto in nuetral or reverse in time.
As for the clutch roasting problems, this can be completely overcome by using low gears. Not diff gears but t-case gears. Get the ultamate crawler form marlin and in double low you probably couldn't slip the cluch if you wanted to.
Plus I was under the impression that manuals are stronger. I know at least that they are easier to maintain and therefor are more reliable.
This is my experience and opinions only.
At least in my opinion manuals are way better. My favorite feature over an auto is the fact that if and instatly when I need to, I can disengage the drivetrain. Best time to do this is if you ever have to spin your tires to get over anything and your going up then start slipping down, when you hit the bottom it will shock your drivetrain and end up braking parts. Sure you can say I won't spin the tires ever and drive it easy to get around that issue but it always comes in handy.
Another time manuals have saved my ass is when I'm heading up a steep obsticle and a front tire lifts into the air. My truck is about to roll to the side or maybe even almost straight back. Solution stomp the cluch and shoot backwards to stop the roll. Good luck getting the auto in nuetral or reverse in time.
As for the clutch roasting problems, this can be completely overcome by using low gears. Not diff gears but t-case gears. Get the ultamate crawler form marlin and in double low you probably couldn't slip the cluch if you wanted to.
Plus I was under the impression that manuals are stronger. I know at least that they are easier to maintain and therefor are more reliable.
This is my experience and opinions only.
03-21-2007, 05:38 PM
#5
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Well, this went fast in an ugly direction.
Do not forget autos. They are just fine.
Here is the deal. This is solely a question is of personal preference. Nothing more.
I can line up people on the manual side who will say auto's suck.
I can line up people on the auto side who will say manual's suck.
I know 3 people personally who actually rock crawl. One perfers stick, another perfers an auto, and one has a stick, liked it, broke the manual tranny, swapped in an auto for cheap, and now likes the auto.
I drive a stick, but i do not truely rock crawl. I drive trails, some of them are hard, but nothing like actual rock crawling. I like stick for DD, and therefore i have a stick. I have a 4.7 case, soon to be duals, and i still wish for an auto when i'm wheeling, but as said, i like the stick for dd.
As I said, FredTJ actually rock crawls. He drives a manual. He likes it, and knows how to drive one in the hard stuff.
An auto is easy. It is point and go. Nothing to it. There are a few, very rare situations where an auto will kill you and a stick will save you. There are also a very few, rare situations where a stick will kill you and an auto won't.
People break stuff with both. There are situations where one might be better than the other as far as saving stuff, but in the end it is a wash.
A stick is harder, but once learned, is just as capable, and many people drive them. Hard.
So, like i said, this is your personal preference. Do you like stick or auto? Which ever you pick will be the right choice for you.
Do not forget autos. They are just fine.
Here is the deal. This is solely a question is of personal preference. Nothing more.
I can line up people on the manual side who will say auto's suck.
I can line up people on the auto side who will say manual's suck.
I know 3 people personally who actually rock crawl. One perfers stick, another perfers an auto, and one has a stick, liked it, broke the manual tranny, swapped in an auto for cheap, and now likes the auto.
I drive a stick, but i do not truely rock crawl. I drive trails, some of them are hard, but nothing like actual rock crawling. I like stick for DD, and therefore i have a stick. I have a 4.7 case, soon to be duals, and i still wish for an auto when i'm wheeling, but as said, i like the stick for dd.
As I said, FredTJ actually rock crawls. He drives a manual. He likes it, and knows how to drive one in the hard stuff.
An auto is easy. It is point and go. Nothing to it. There are a few, very rare situations where an auto will kill you and a stick will save you. There are also a very few, rare situations where a stick will kill you and an auto won't.
People break stuff with both. There are situations where one might be better than the other as far as saving stuff, but in the end it is a wash.
A stick is harder, but once learned, is just as capable, and many people drive them. Hard.
So, like i said, this is your personal preference. Do you like stick or auto? Which ever you pick will be the right choice for you.
Last edited by AxleIke; 03-21-2007 at 10:25 PM.
03-21-2007, 06:48 PM
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When it comes to the argument stick or auto, the simple answer is go with an auto if you don't know how to drive a stick. Personally I hate autos, I have so much more control with a stick.
Now the main issue at hand, you want to crawl a Datsun, the problem is nobody makes a crawlbox for them. You'll need to adapt a Toyota tranny if you want to run any of Marlins products.
Now the main issue at hand, you want to crawl a Datsun, the problem is nobody makes a crawlbox for them. You'll need to adapt a Toyota tranny if you want to run any of Marlins products.
Last edited by BruceTS; 03-23-2007 at 04:30 PM.
03-21-2007, 07:00 PM
#7
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Here's the deal. People can argue 'til they're blue in the face about stick vs auto once you get on the trail, but here's the reality. If you want to drive it on the road at highway speeds with big tires, you MUST go manual. The overdrive in the early (pre Tacoma) trucks is just too damn tall.
I have 33's with 4.88's and a manual tranny, and Molly has 35's with 5.71's and automatic. There are A LOT of instances where I like stick - so I can generate wheelspeed in 2nd or 3rd if I need to. There are some instances where I prefer the auto - rocky creekbeds being the most common. If I had lower tcase ratio or a crawler, I think that would significantly tip the scales to the manual. Note that there are a lot more choices for crawlers for manual trannys than autos...
I have 33's with 4.88's and a manual tranny, and Molly has 35's with 5.71's and automatic. There are A LOT of instances where I like stick - so I can generate wheelspeed in 2nd or 3rd if I need to. There are some instances where I prefer the auto - rocky creekbeds being the most common. If I had lower tcase ratio or a crawler, I think that would significantly tip the scales to the manual. Note that there are a lot more choices for crawlers for manual trannys than autos...
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03-21-2007, 09:23 PM
#11
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Wow is this terrible.
Ford or Chevy.
Husky or Stihl.
I have an auto with dual cases, I own a rock crawler.
If either is broke, they are broke.
With a stock auto and a stock stick, I can fake a crawler with the auto. Judging by the smoke on your clutch, you can't.
I think Bruce and I are the only posters in this thread with crawlers, FWIW.
Ford or Chevy.
Husky or Stihl.
I have an auto with dual cases, I own a rock crawler.
If either is broke, they are broke.
With a stock auto and a stock stick, I can fake a crawler with the auto. Judging by the smoke on your clutch, you can't.
I think Bruce and I are the only posters in this thread with crawlers, FWIW.
03-21-2007, 09:36 PM
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It's all in good attitude.
03-21-2007, 10:02 PM
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I have a Manual and a Crawler. My preference is to drive a Manual.
Prior to the Crawler I roasted several clutches trying to crawl with tall gears and tall tires, not a good combo.
I have not driven an auto in the rocks. My only reservation would be going down something. I use my crawler gears going down as mush as I use them going up, nice control. With an auto you have to rely on the brakes, not as much control.
Remember, "Opinions are like
...everyone has one."
Prior to the Crawler I roasted several clutches trying to crawl with tall gears and tall tires, not a good combo.
I have not driven an auto in the rocks. My only reservation would be going down something. I use my crawler gears going down as mush as I use them going up, nice control. With an auto you have to rely on the brakes, not as much control.
Remember, "Opinions are like
...everyone has one."
03-21-2007, 10:10 PM
#15
Registered User
So I guess you can drive my truck this summer!
I have plenty of gearing to go down.
I am investigating electronic control of that stuff to keep my business a little tighter.
The biggest problem to me is going down. 4.7 case with low in the tranny is sometimes too slow. Problem is you have to gas into second, so what I usually do is stop, grab stock low and get going again. Or ride the brakes.
I have plenty of gearing to go down.
I am investigating electronic control of that stuff to keep my business a little tighter.
The biggest problem to me is going down. 4.7 case with low in the tranny is sometimes too slow. Problem is you have to gas into second, so what I usually do is stop, grab stock low and get going again. Or ride the brakes.
03-21-2007, 10:30 PM
#19
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I love how we have the same debates here on YT over and over, every month...Keeps things consistent, predictable. Helps me work on my Adult Onset ADD.
03-21-2007, 10:47 PM
#20
Registered User
Forget autos.
At least in my opinion manuals are way better. My favorite feature over an auto is the fact that if and instatly when I need to, I can disengage the drivetrain. Best time to do this is if you ever have to spin your tires to get over anything and your going up then start slipping down, when you hit the bottom it will shock your drivetrain and end up braking parts. Sure you can say I won't spin the tires ever and drive it easy to get around that issue but it always comes in handy.
Another time manuals have saved my ass is when I'm heading up a steep obsticle and a front tire lifts into the air. My truck is about to roll to the side or maybe even almost straight back. Solution stomp the cluch and shoot backwards to stop the roll. Good luck getting the auto in nuetral or reverse in time.
As for the clutch roasting problems, this can be completely overcome by using low gears. Not diff gears but t-case gears. Get the ultamate crawler form marlin and in double low you probably couldn't slip the cluch if you wanted to.
Plus I was under the impression that manuals are stronger. I know at least that they are easier to maintain and therefor are more reliable.
This is my experience and opinions only.
At least in my opinion manuals are way better. My favorite feature over an auto is the fact that if and instatly when I need to, I can disengage the drivetrain. Best time to do this is if you ever have to spin your tires to get over anything and your going up then start slipping down, when you hit the bottom it will shock your drivetrain and end up braking parts. Sure you can say I won't spin the tires ever and drive it easy to get around that issue but it always comes in handy.
Another time manuals have saved my ass is when I'm heading up a steep obsticle and a front tire lifts into the air. My truck is about to roll to the side or maybe even almost straight back. Solution stomp the cluch and shoot backwards to stop the roll. Good luck getting the auto in nuetral or reverse in time.
As for the clutch roasting problems, this can be completely overcome by using low gears. Not diff gears but t-case gears. Get the ultamate crawler form marlin and in double low you probably couldn't slip the cluch if you wanted to.
Plus I was under the impression that manuals are stronger. I know at least that they are easier to maintain and therefor are more reliable.
This is my experience and opinions only.
