aa1911

iTrader: (1)

Looking for others who are injecting alcohol and their experiences. I can't seem to understand why more folks aren't using one of dozens of brands available. Alcohol injection (and dH2O) seems to offer nothing but advantages in both performance and longevity.

I'm running Devil's Own universal stage II kits on both my '00 Taco and my '93 4runner. Using voltage controllers on both right now but will be getting a boost controler soon on the tacoma, just installed S/C and a bunch of fuel and exhaust mods. For those disgruntled with the 3vze, alcohol will give it some new life. After I let my wife drive my truck with the meth on it, she was sold on getting a second kit for our 4runner. I'm running a 2gph nozzle a few inches before the TB on the 3vze and will be moving from a 3 to a 4 or 5gph nozzle on the 5vz-fe in the tacoma. Both engines are over 133k. I'll post up some pics when I get home later this month; the install for these kits is extremely easy and besides the SC, has been the best HP gains of anything else I've done, not to mention about 50 miles more on every tank of gas. The dH2O is supposed to keep the valves clean of carbon as it goes through and also reduces emissions.

So who else is running meth kits???

Curious to see what you guys have

mt_goat

I'm using an Aquamist 2D system with 50/50 meth/distilled water. Seems to work good, never ran this setup without it so I don't have anyway to compare. Got mine from URD: http://www.urdusa.com/index.php?cPat...abgf7692k9c0b4

okie81

Sounds like a nice setup, interested to see how the nozzle upgrade works out.

BIC performance

I am running the AEM water/ meth kit on my Supra. I love it, it is a great alternative for race gas. I am running 22-24 psi on 94 oct pump gas with it. I run a 50/50 mix. I would think that it would be a great addition to a SC 3vz/ 5vz, as they are not intercooled. I saw a 100-200 drop in EGT's with using the meth. You should, however have to have a way to tune for it. If you engine is pinging, of on the edge of pinging it will help greatly with the stock ecu.

I am running a Haltech standalone ecu on my Supra, at 17psi we sprayed the water/meth mix with the current tune and lost 30HP, but once we adusted the tune and added a few degrees of timing we ended up making another 30HP over the original numbers, so thats a 60 HP gain over all with tuning at the same boost levels.

You can also use it to spray down the manifold to cool it down with the test button on the controller, just hold the rpms at 3000+ and spray, it will cool the intake manifold down a huga amount, which is great when the engine/ manifolds are heat soaked. Another benafit is that it does basicly steam clean the inside of the engine and TB/ manifold, no more carbon or deposits in the combustion chamber.

aviator

Interesting mod... so educate me... do you use this stuff like NOS for a sudden boost of power... is it an always misting extra fuel injector type deal... or does it only activate at a certain RPM pt. and if so how does it stay engaged once boost has occurred and RPMs for given rate of speed have dropped?

off topic comment: IDK about things down on Robson Strasse BIC but (for ladies) around here a body lift is usually an under wire bra and a suspension lift is a garter belt so I'd hope your mrs. would know the difference.
... then again you sun (rain) coast types are a little... different...
You staying in town for the O or are you "running away"?

mt_goat

The purpose is to cool the air intake temps down. The supercharger or turbo compression of the air heats the air up. The more boost the hotter it gets.

The setup I have is activated by the fuel injector pulse at anything over 5 PSI of boost, but thats adjustable. The faster the fuel injector is pulsing the more mist is sprayed. The nozzle size is also adjustable.

aviator

I get it... so it's more of a benefit to turbo/SC types... are you using this in addition to intercooling or instead of?

mt_goat

Instead of, the TRD supercharger design leaves no way to run the boosted air through an intercooler. Much easier with turbos to use an intercooler.

aa1911

iTrader: (1)

So the alcohol water injection is two fold; the water cools the intake charge making a denser air charge= more air=more power + cooler temps, the alcohol is more for simulating a higher octane. There's tons of good info all over the net about both water and alcohol or combinations.

Most setups are automatic rather than ' hitting a nos button ' they are set up to activate (start injecting) at a certain boost level for forced induction or using a voltage controller and hooking into a MAF or TPS. I am running off the MAF sensor (this is preferred for N/A engines I think) until I get a boost controller and my '93 4runner is hooked up to the TPS because of the absence of a good signal from the Volume (vane) air flow meter. Both work good. The Devil's Own controllers have two knobs, one setting where you want it to start injecting, and one knob setting where you want it to be injecting at 100%. It's a totally progressive system, it's not just an on or off switch and allows for better tuning either with forced induction or N/A. You can run up to 30 psi of boost depending on which controller you get or you can run off of a 0-5v signal. I only know the Devil's Own system, glad to start hearing from others running different kits; there's so many brands!

Keep 'em coming...

Compressed

I'd definitely run alcohol/water injection if had a charger of some kind. Huge improvements for boosted engines.

The idea to do it on a NA engine would be nice for cleaning but it's too much $$$$ for no performance benefits otherwise, especially when a good catch can setup will keep the top end clean.

aa1911

iTrader: (1)

Anyone else??? I'm addicted to alcohol... and alcohol injection... they're both great. The Devil's Own kits are pretty cheap and are of good quality; $400 will get you EVERYTHING you need and it will pay for itself in a couple years just in fuel economy. Before I bolted on my SC on the 3.4, I was getting HUGE gains in power with alcohol/water injected before the TB. I was only getting about 275 miles on a tank (16.5 gallon tank down to 1/8 on average) and after the injection kit I was getting over 315 driving like an idiot. That more than payed for the methanol which can be had pretty cheap (I pay 4.99/gal which lasts a while)

All pros, no cons excluding the initial setup cost...

TKGN1

Lurker here, but thought I would add my 2 cents.
Don't have alky on my Toyota but have it on my Buick (Grand National) for about 7 years, alkycontrol brand, progressive kit . I run 25 lbs of boost on a single nozzle with 93 octane, low 10s 1/4. The turbo buick community has been using alcohol as a supplement for years with great success. I have a buddy with a high 9 sec GN that runs the Devil's Own kit on pump gas. Lots of R & D has been put in the kits (there are a lot out there now) and have really made an impact on alot of different applications from race cars, street cars, to turbo diesels.
I agree, not to many cons going with alky, initial cost is the biggest deal. The progressive kit I'm using takes readings from the MAP sensor and controls the pump speed/psi for the injection. Pump turns on at around 6-7psi then increases flow/psi with the rate of boost psi. Adjustability of turn on point, rate of climb, and max psi are some of the capabilities.
Anyhow, cool to see some Toyota's using alky.
Todd

mt_goat

You guys also using 50% water/ 50% meth?

BIC performance

Yes, I am running 50/50 mix on my Supra. I have run it up to 24 psi with 94 pump gas and made just under 500 HP.

To see the biggest gains, you need to be able to alter the ignition timing, with a standalone EMS or piggy back box. But this is a slightly different application, I think the water/ meth inj is a great thing for guys running S/C's, you probably could run regular grade fuel with it, or if you are pinging or near the threshold the gains and benifits will be huge.

TKGN1

100% meth in all cases I know of. I run 100%.
Also, denatured alcohol was used for a few years before methanol became the better choice.

FYI, be careful where you get your alky. If you can, get it in sealed containers. If you buy it from a hot rod shop, alot of them will use the same pump for race fuel as they do for the alky. Problem there is the fuel that is left in the pump can cross contaminate with the alky, this can deteriorate the seals in the alky pump leading to pump failure (happened to me twice before I figured out what was happening).

here is a link to the alky forums on the buick boards, might be some useful info there. http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/alc...-propane-tech/

TKGN1

Thats the cool thing with alky, little more boost and little more timing can bump the power up alot. Draw back is you find out where the next weak link is, in my case its usually head gaskets.
I'm running FAST standalone on my car, makes tuning way easy.
Always been impressed with the Supras, they always have a big miles per hour at the track regardless of what ET they are running.

mt_goat

Is that like the pumps at gas stations that share the 87, 89, 91 octane with one hose?

TKGN1

Mixing the fuels at the pump at a station isn't going to cause seals to fail/pump failure. Also, I wouldn't think mixing a quart of 87 would offset the octane rating when mixed with 10 gallons of 91.

mt_goat

You misunderstood my question. I'm trying to picture how the meth at some speed shops gets contaminated? Is it because the meth shares the same hose with the race fuel?

TKGN1

Gotchya. Most shops have 55 gal drums they dispense fuel from and use hand drawn pumps to get the fuel out. They will pull the pump from the race fuel container and drop it in to pump the methanol, that’s where the mixing can come from. If they have separate pumps or hoses for each tank there shouldn’t be a problem. Sorry for the confusion