Jay

No trouble bro.

I have also stated my opinion that it is a poor design.

_________


The reason I created the poll was to see what the typical mileage was for a seal failure. If toyota was going to create a "recall" for this repair, I would assume that would only happen if the average 4runner was prematurely having axle seal failure. Now the question is......How long should an axle seal last? Is the company liable for improving on a design when the "average" axle seal lasts 80,000 miles?

I see more trouble with axle seals here online than I hear about in several months at the dealership.

FYI, I dont know off the top of my head how much axle seals are. Ive never (as a service advisor since 10/02) had a customer with this concern.

Hermes

I think the poll is great. I should have done it myself, but I think your name carries more weight

Right now it is a 50/50 split with those that have and those that have not had a problem. The 60k-90k range seems to be the affected mileage group. HBoss blew my theory of the actually breather being the culprit, whether it was extended or not. I thought that maybe it was getting clogged over time (dirt, salt, etc) and causing the seals to blow.

I do know that I never had an issue with my seals on my old ’92 truck that had about 148k miles in 9 years. Did they switch to an inferior product? Maybe we are expecting too much from Toyota, but I don’t think so. Toyota sells so well because they build quality vehicles. I am just surprised that they use a seal with a life expectancy of 80k in vehicles costing greater than $30k.

HBoss

Axle seals are cheap, no more than $10 each for the inner/outer. I don't have a problem paying for those, it's the labor charge & time away from the 4Runnner that's the annoying part.

Labor is in the hundreds of dollars for these <$10 items...

I'm not complaining really, as it's only happened once to me (so far / knock on wood). But I'm concerned this is a recurring problem for people, through no fault of their own. And it may have to be budgeted into our monthly "cost of living" details.

We'll see how the poll goes, hopefully it's not as common as some of us think.

keisur

you may find my post under the Axle Seal Leaking Poll above helpful. I believe it is a combination of poor design and also poor quality of workmanship when fixing the problem. I have done extensive inspection with tolerances and offsets on the axle I pulled off my 4runner. I still have it assembled since I replaced everything outside the four flange bolts. Definately this thing is evidence of the tech not paying attention or something during repair assembly. and the gouges they left on the inside of the inner seal surface of the housing while removing the old inner seals has made me very nervous about even taking it in for an oil change. maybe a different stealership would help but this happened at two different stealerships in the houston area. I have to agree with you on your assessment of the situation.

Jay, I ain't trying to stir anything up either, I know a couple certified toyo techs and they take pride in their work but there are those distinct few that care more about how many vehicles they move through their bay each day for the bonus check.

kxpaul

Taco's and 4-runners are high production vehicles. So that means there are a LARGE amount of them out there. Axle seals leaking on solid rear-axle vehicles have always been a problem. Because of the high numbers of these vehicles, it seems like theres a out-break of fluid loss from the rear seals. As a tech, i see taco's and 4-nummers daily. They are great trucks. They seldom have rear axle seal leaking. The tail-tail signs might include, Rear brake lock-up, dampness or fluid build up on backing plate. These would be signs indicating a brake inspection would be needed. Just ask a buddy who owns a FORD,CHEVY,DODGE ect.
I worked in the independent shops for 10years prior to TOYOTA.
They all leak at some point in time. ( Yes, some sooner then others)
ADVISE or OPTION : If a seal is leaking,and you replace seals and bearings but the other side is dry. You could just replace the inner seal on the dry side before it goes bad.( save money ) and its really easy to do at home. Make sure the seal goes in straight with out leaving smilely faces all over the seal. ( I use bearing race drive set to properly set the seal into the rear axle tube.
Enjoy your TOYOTA. Let the good times roll

Jay

I hear ya. Its rather sad isnt it?

Mudd Runna

O.k...I had my passenger side rear seal go on me sometime ago....i think there was 160,000 on the truck then maybe alittle less when I noticed the inside of my tire was soaked with what I thought was brake fluid or something.....I had no idea. A buddy of mine told me that it was axle grease and that I had probably blown a seal....So I took to my Haynes manual, broke out my tools and proceeded. I took the tire off, unbolted to rear axle assembly and brought the whole thing to a local automotive parts supplier called VIP. They replaced the outer seal because it had to be pressed in and I obviously couldn't do it at home. But I took it in to save me some money in labor...as it was I only paid for an hour's worth of labor and I brought in the seal which I had bought from another store for around $12.....but I never did find that inner seal........the manual said that it was located right behind the rear brake drum on the rear axle assembly in the axle itself.....but I couldn't find it.....anyway....save some money....if your going to replace the seal...take the rear axle assembly out yourself and have someone press the seal.....

mcbell

well. i just took my 97 4runner in (with 80k miles) for the rear "clunking" problem. world toyota in atlanta informed me that i, too, had the rear axle seal problem. their quote was about $500. i have to believe after reading this forum that this problem is probably as prevalent as the head gasket issue, which i too had replaced. has anyone had any success in bringing this to toyota's attention. i have a good mind to print out this discussioin board and fax it to toyota and/or the service manager at world toyota. this is ridiculous. i have to say that my confidence in toyota quality has slipped significantly. in the last month, my 3 disc cd player has broken, the ignition key now sticks intermittently (world toyota will replace it for $300), and now this issue with the rear axle seal - i'm assuming it's related to the "clunking" problem.

i think it's time for a trade-in.

keisur

My single cd player went kapoot after only about 25k back in '99 and luckily it was still under the bumber-to-bumper warranty. not only did the stealership replace it with a new one (I have the one that sits under the tape deck/tuner) but the service people sent me my CD that had been stuck in the broken one about a month after the swap. yours I am assuming is past the warranty though. I wouldn't get rid of the 4runner but I wouldn't have toyota replace it with a stock one. for that money you can get a highend after market tuner/changer controller. something I want but I have to get new tires and lockers and regear to 4.88 first.

Jay

Not by a long shot. As a technician before the head gasket recall came out, I could have done head gasket replacements on vehicle after vehicle. It took us 6 years to do 600,000 2nd gen's.

Now, I only recently stopped "wrenching" on cars at the dealership. This occured back in October of 02. Ive done at most a dozen rear axle seal repairs on 89-Present 4 runners. I dont know why they leaked. I think one had a bent axle.

I am convinced that most people that are having re-accuring problems are dealing with workmanship problems. Mostly due to a poorly installed seal race which requires a measured pressed depth in order to contact the seal properly. Others range from bent axles to seals damaged installing them.

I just dont see it being as wide spread of a problem as the head gasket recall. I also dont feel toyota should create a recall.