Robb235

Sorry, I was using washer fluid.

Texas_Ace

Doesn't make sense, what did you do exactly? Got picture of the nipple you used?

Also if it was truly hydrolocked, it would not have cleared it self out. You would have had to pull the spark plugs and turn the engine over to clear it out.

Why was the engine shut off? When doing the water treatment there is no reason to turn the engine off.

Something doesn't make sense. Done this many many times myself and never remotely had a problem. No different then the recommended method on the seafoam can and millions of people do that.

Robb235

I disconnected the PVC hose from the PCV valve and stuck a small funnel into the hose. With the engine running I slowly poured washer fluid into the small funnel. The 4Runner started smoking/steaming as if I had poured Seafoam in there. No problem until the engine all of a sudden quit. It made and odd sound when it quit too. I've Seafoamed motors before and bogged them out, but this was different. I left the vacuum hose disconnected from the PCV and tried to restart. All I got was THUNK. I let it sit for a while and changed my oil. After about a half hour I tried again. It kept turning over and not starting, until I opened the throttle and it stumbled to life.

Now the motor has a tick to it that wasn't there before. It also keeps steaming out of the tail pipe slightly as though it has a blown head gasket. I drove it around for a while thinking I just needed to burn off the remaining "blue water" washer fluid, but I'm still getting steam out of the tail pipe.

I'm going to let it sit over night and see what it does in the morning.

Texas_Ace

Well first off the PCV hose is a lot bigger then 1/4" but the only reason that might cause a problem is that it could cause the water to go into 1 cylinder more then the others. Still should not cause a problem though if rpm's are kept up.

Also you are NOT supposed to pour the fluid into the engine, you are supposed to let the engine suck the fluid in naturally. That could be your problem right there.

If you kept pouring fluid after the engine died then that water will have ran down into the cylinder and could hydrolock it. Which is why you let it suck it in, it will stop pulling fluid should it die, it is self regulating in this method. Also slows the flow should it start to bog out and RPM's drop.

Like I said the only way to hydrolock an engine in practical terms is either when the engine is off/really low RPM's or a whole lot of water really fast.

What RPM's did you keep the engine at? You are supposed to give it gas to keep it running and you generally need 3000rpm+ to keep it from bogging out.

It not starting without some throttle is normal, same thing happens with seafoam.

The biggest thing that says it was not hydrolocked, at least not fully locked, is that it started without having to empty the cylinders. It will simply not dry out by itself if truly hydrolocked, and for sure not in half an hour. I have seen engines stay full of water for months without drying out (blown head gaskets).

When it died, did it just bog out and sputter to a stop? Or did it come to a sudden jolting stop that shook the whole truck and made the engine jump?

The engine running a little funny right after is not a big deal, it can take a day or 2 sometimes for everything to get flushed out and the spark plugs to get cleaned off.

Something really doesn't add up. I have poured massive amounts of fluid into engines before, much smaller then a 3.4l V6 as well without an issue.

Robb235

What exactly doesn't add up for you?

The engine came to an immediate stop.

I had the the washer fluid in my right hand, and the hose and funnel in my left. With my hands being full, I was having trouble keeping the throttle at a constant rate. It kept fluctuating. During one of the dips is when it felt like it seized.

I know the PCV hose is a little bigger, but think that's the best hose for getting equal distribution to all of the cylinders being that it sits right behind he throttle body, am I wrong? And it wasn't like I was just dumping that stuff down the hose either. The funnel was small and I was pouring pretty slow. In fact the hose was sucking both air and washer fluid, not just purely washer fluid.

Texas_Ace

What doesn't add up is that I have done the same thing many times and never had an issue remotely like this. I have gone way more extreme as well, sucking down a whole gallon in under 30 seconds on a 2.0l 4 cylinder for example.

I do always make sure to keep the RPM's up though. at 750rpm's the chance for hydrlock is many times that of 3000rpm but it should still not be close to what you were doing.

Quick math to show my point.

I will use an engine I am more fermiluar with, a 2.0l 3sgte.

It has a combustion chamber of around 50cc + valve reliefs = around 60cc of total volume in the combustion chamber underestimating. The 3.4 will have significantly more.

60cc per cylinder x 4 = 240cc

Multiply that by 3000rpm = 720,000

divide it by 2 since this is a 4 stroke engine = 360,000

So at 3000rpm a 2.0l 4 cylinder has 360,000cc of volume/minute available before it hydrolocks.

To convert that into numbers we care about, 360,000cc = 95 gallons per minute.

So you see there is a MASSIVE window for error as long as the RPM's are kept up. at 750rpm it only takes ~20gpm to hydrolock it. Less then that and it goes down quick.

That is all based on a much smaller 2.0l engine as well, a 3.4l will handle a lot more.

Only way I see that it might have hydrolocked it in your case is that you were pouring it into the intake when the RPM's were too low/the engine was basically off. Having never poured the fluid in I have no experience with this.

Another possibility that I have had happen to me on multiple occasions, although usually with gas and not methanol. Is that the washer fluid in the engine caused pre-ignition due to one of many reasons. This can cause the engine to act like it is hydrolocked.

This usually only happens with the ignition timing set wrong though, it would explain why it was able to be started without clearing out the cylinders though.

The PCV valve line itself is not a bad choice, I would stuff a smaller hose inside of it to reduce the total flow though just to be on the safe side. Plus you don't want it going through the engine too fast as it won't have time to work.

Robb235

I'm pretty sure there's some forgotten element you've not considered in your calculations. I'm just not sure what it is. 20gpm seems awfully high.

Texas_Ace

Got to remember those numbers are for a 2.0l 4 cylinder. The 3.4l will be at LEAST 50% more and I have a feeling the combustion chamber is larger on the 5vz due to the much larger bore.

Like I said, the chances for a hydrolock are virtually non-existent if done properly and I have tested it before myself.

Not to mention that it is the same exact process listed on the seafoam can and done by millions of people. They would not put it on the can if there was a remote chance that it could hydrolock it.

Stu Pidasso

I would like to see this saved in the tech forum or made in to a sticky. Forgive me if I do not use the right terms, I am not a message board officionado.

Robb235

20gpm... So introducing an entire gallon of water to the engine in 3 seconds? To me that just doesn't pass the smell test.

Texas_Ace

Like I said, it is nearly impossible to hydrolock and engine with the method I listed out above. When sucking the fluid in it is self regulating as well, should it bog out the fluid will stop getting sucked in and thus there is hardly a worry about hydrolocking.

Only practical way to hydrolock an engine is with it off/almost off or putting the intake under water.

I fed a gallon of water to a 2.0l in under 30 seconds (fastest I could get it to suck in using a big hose) to put my money where my mouth was a few years ago, not a single problem.

I am still not convinced that you locked it, it would not have cleared itself out if it was truly locked. There is no place for the water to go. I have seen locked engines before, they don't simply clear themselves out.

Gamefreakgc

I think this is a great idea, but my head is stuck on the water part as well. Water and oil do not mix. So if you have gas and carbon buildup in an old engine (like mine) that are oil-based, how is water supposed to break it down? Seems like the water would not penetrate well, even as steam. The seafoam makes sense since it's a petroleum oil-based product. I'd be willing to try it since I also have some cylinders with bad compression but can't figure out what the water is supposed to do.

Texas_Ace

The water doesn't do much, the steam is what does the cleaning.

Ever seen a blown head gasket? The cylinder that got coolant into it will be sparkling clean and the rest will be dirty.

Also got to remember that there is fuel being mixed into the water/cylinder as well.

Whatever the exact cause is, it works. If you don't want to do the water you can skip it fine, like the OP says, do whatever you feel comfortable with. It is just what I do to my engines.

I ran another treatment like listed out above, only differnce is that with my last oil change I put a quart of MMO into the oil and then ran seafoam for a few days in the oil prior to the treatment.

After all of that I ran another compression test and my compression is now up to ~205psi across the board on a 150k mile engine! Brand new spec was 215-220psi!

This engine started out with compression on 3 cylinders between 135-145psi. It feels better as well and you can tell it has better compression.

Gamefreakgc

No worries, I had just thought that since you had the cc's calculated you might know more about what the water does. I think I will still try it, the Seafoam is made to eliminate moisture so I'm not concerned about that part. I have bad compression in cylinder 6 at 115 and the rest are 150-160. The FSM states they should be at 170 so they are all a little bit worn. That 6th cylinder makes the engine wobble a bit so I'd be glad to get rid of it if possible. It's my DD so I can't really take the engine apart to clean it out that way.

Texas_Ace

Well I know it is the steam that does the work but have never been able to find any proof on exactly how it penetrates the oil like you said.

My best guess is that the high temps cause a break down in the oil surface tension and that allows the steam to work. Plus the great majority of the oil in the cylinder will be carbon anyways which won't repel water to the same extent.

But like I said, I have not seen any proof or anything past educated guesses on why it works. I don't like to pass along anything unless I have some kind of data/experience to back it up whenever possible.

Might as well try the treatment, can't hurt anything at that point.

Gamefreakgc

I'm due for an oil change in about 1k miles so I'll pick up some tubing and more distilled water (only got about 1/2 gallon).

Now when you said to beat the heck out of it, you mean drive it around for a while or just rev it for a few minutes, or does that matter?

My truck's got 279k miles on it and it's gunked up REAL bad. I cleaned out the throttle body earlier this year and was solid black everywhere. I looked down the air intake and was as black as the TB. Cleaned it out as much as I could by hand but I know it's bad. Anything different I should do?

Texas_Ace

I would go ahead and put a quart of MMO in the oil now and let it start working now if I was you. It will overfill the oil slightly but it won't hurt anything. If you engine is that dirty it will take a few treatments to do much I have a feeling.

When I say drive it hard, I mean drive it hard. You could free rev it but you will not get near as much heat into the engine doing that as driving it.

I personally will go to an access road I know and hammer it from 0 to 80-90mph a few times to get it nice and hot. Then go back home and do the next round. I happen to live where this is convenient though, just got to see what works for you. I would try to get some WOT action at least through 1st gear.

If you engine is that dirty then I would double up on the injector cleaners in the gas tank, your injectors are gonked up I am sure plus it helps clean out everything else. I would also put the MMO and seafoam in the oil if it was my truck.

I would then do the treatment when you are ready for the next oil change. After that I would put the MMO back in the oil when you refill it along with the larger filter I mentioned in the OP. I would also use mobile 1 oil for your next fill up, Walmart sells it for cheap. Mobile 1 has a lot of cleaners in it and will help clean everything out. Mobile 1 oil filters are also the best easily findable ones IMO.

You will want to change the oil early after this as I am sure it will clean a lot of junk out. So drive maybe 1000 miles before changing the oil again.

Running the whole treatment again at that point would not be a bad idea at all.

Run a compression test after each treatment and if you see improvements then I would keep doing it. I am still running the MMO in my oil to see if anything more can be freed up and to clean out anything that might still be in there.

Also, you will want to replace your spark plugs after doing this treatment for sure if it is that dirty. Might wait until after the next treatment but plan on it. I got my OEM denso plugs off ebay for $17 IIRC.

This would also be a good time to do a tune up if it has been awhile. Plug wires, fuel filter, air filter ect.

Gamefreakgc

Thanks for the quick response! I'm going to stop by after work and pick up some MMO. I doubt it will overflow, my engine eats up a little bit of oil over time.

I live in the city near a major shopping center, so I doubt I'll be punching it to 90 since that'll be a $300 trip around the block . I'll just hop on the freeway real quick then.

I just did a tune-up over the summer, new plugs, wires, fuel filter, air filter, replaced several non-functioning sensors, all that jazz. I haven't had the truck too long. I put NGK V-power plugs in (that's what was in before, as directed by the FSM) and they seem to work great.

I've done some injector cleaning regularly since I've got the truck. Maybe seafoam has a different balance of chemicals that will work differently. The MMO claims to be a fuel additive as well, do you think that's worth my time to dump some in the fuel tank?

Texas_Ace

I get the MMO at walmart and will generally put a quart in the gas tank as well. Sure doesn't hurt anything.

On the spark plugs, the v-powers work but the plugs that are supposed to be used are dual electrode plugs. I think they work a little better personally on an NA truck.

kawicowboy

Sorry if I missed it but like myself I tent to do things in bunches as you did with yours, do you know what specifically helped your motor, seafoam, Mmo or the water.