twilson

I have an 03 SR5 4wd V8 with full time 4wheel with a super charger.
I ran a 15.1 in the 1/4 mile a portland internationl with full tank gas, yakima rack and larger rocket box on top and BFG All Terrains. I thought this was pretty good, considering Car and Driver lists the regular V8 @ 15.9. Once second is about 100hp plus I had all this junk on the truck.
I moved to Phoenix and did some street runs dead stop and rolling against his 04 Sport V8 2wd and it was dead even every time, no pulling on him what so ever. So I take the car to the dealer, its there a week, the re check the install, reflash the ECU, everything checks out and what do you know, its no faster then the 2wd V8. Now I am pissed, am I to believe I need to spend almost $5k to be as fast as a 2wd model. TRD says that doesnt sound right but yet the blower is putting out 7psi at spec and all. I think it to be impossible to think the drive train weight and friction would eat up 100hp.
I will point out my buddy ran 16.1 at Firebird in Phx. that would seem consistent with my 15.1 (plus SC), can the heat down here eliminate all the benefits of the SC. This doesnt seem right, I will be call TRD again on monday.

Biff

Do you have a pic of your boost gauge? Been looking to install one.

Amir904

what is the 1/4 mile on teh 3.4 supercharged?

ctcost

Power to weight ratio is part of that loss. The transfer case adds weight. Maybe you can bump up the efficiency of the supercharger (dunno if there's a kit or not) and gain a couple pounds more boost. Be interesting to know what the dry weight of each vehicle is and how much you've added to yours.

Good Times

some factors to consider:

4wd system is very heavy
yak rack and box will slow ya down (wind resistance)
the heat is a good enemy. intercooler of some sort will help (not sure if there are any available currently)

also bad fuel, dirty air filter can be a minor factor.

good luck

EDGE

Your tires ain't that great for putting down the best times, get some street tires they make all the difference.

At least we now know that a V8 2WD is as fast as a SC V8 AWD, well give or take

cstary

low 15's is the standard for the 3.4 supercharged. some people can break into the 14's with a tacoma and fuel modifications.

if you want more speed, first consider larger fuel injectors and pump ("fuel mods"), then maybe a smaller pulley (more boost) with water injection (to cool the increased temps from more boost).

check out www.URDUSA.com for more info . . .

creed

Lefty

Heck yeah, the heat will easily eat up any advantage your s/c has. Think about it, without an intercooler your s/c is compressing already overheated air. The compression is only making the air hotter and is probably giving you a bad case of pinging on our local 91 octane gas.

As Lance says, an intercooler will give you a significant advantage however, a cheaper mod you can do before racetime is to put some of that octane-booster in your gas. Higher octane should help with any overheating/pinging you may be encountering. That aside, the intercooler is the only other advantage I can see for racing in Phoenix this side of October.

Good luck !

Steve

scharged03

Buy a sports car.

My other car is a Paxton supercharged Mustang GT.

Pitchar

twilson

Actually berfore I went to the dealer we ran with all my junk on the roof and the I stripped all that off after, made no difference with short runs up to 85 or so.
The set up from TRD comes with the extra injectors to solve the ping problem, plus colder plugs etc, so its not knocking. My guess is the ECU is not mapped right despite what the dealer says. there seems to be hesitation and surging when punching hit plus the shifts are slow..
I understand heat wont help but my friends 2wd drive model has to run in the same stuff, so If I am theoretically faster since I added a claimed 100hp+, then when I came to PHX and I runner slower, so would he. Weight wise 100-150lbs might make a 10th of a second difference, and the 4wd drive is supposed to weight 250lbs more. All in all I should be faster.
Calling TRD monday see what they say.

Good Times

keep in mind that although the weight of the front diff might be only 250 or so, you gotta factor in the additional moving parts from it as well. this also must be factored in.

what does your boost gauge show? (is the boost consistent across the board or is there a flux?) I ask this because maybe the compressor belt is slipping or something. another thing that it can show is a leak as well.

lastly, heat plays a significant role into how much power is made. Therefore, even though both vehicles are in the same condition, your SC will not be as efficient at extremely hot temperatures or even at high altitude locations. Thus your statement of "2wd drive model has to run in the same stuff" does not apply.

I still think that the weather is taking a toll on your SC and it is not able to run efficiently since it's too hot out there. You're best bet is to add a custom intercooler to cool the induced air. I am pretty certain TRD will say the same thing (good luck though).

doanlaw

don't feel bad, my buddy beat me at the track in his V6, both 04's, both 4x4, (me 15.835, him 15.834). Your expierencing the parasitic loss through the drivtrain, i've come to know that 100 more hp on an AWD isn't going to give you all that more at the track. I ran a 15.1 when my 99 grand cherokee was SC'D, that was a 4.7 V8 too. Later, after i removed it cause it fragged my motor, I ran a 15.8 stock. That kit (kenne bell) was suppose to be good for 100+ hp, but again, your pushing through alot of drive train, as the jeep was AWD too.

If your really serious on tuning your SC, visit jeepsunlimited.com, goto the speedfreak forum and search under wjeeper good luck, and don't give up.

cstary

You should consider that the piggyback unit isn't tuned correctly. Just because more air is being forced in, doen't mean the mixture is correct. For instance, if you supercharge a 1995 Tacoma with a 3.4L, you will get a whole 5-10hp gain, because the mixture isn't right.

If you want to do it right, you have to get rid of the guesswork: start off by either getting the truck dyno'd and have them check the mixture at wide oped throttle, or by buying a wide band O2 sensor ($300). Report back to TRD and have them reprogram your chip to suit your vehicle. The problem is likely that you have larger tires, and have more load on the engine, which changes the demands on the engine and fuel system. It's hard for a company to make a one-size-fits-all application. Knowing that, DO NOT tell TRD that you have larger tires, because they'll use that as an excuse.

You can change the mixture yourself with a different piggy back in place of the TRD one ($270). Even though you're looking at more money here, you'll really get what the Eaton s/c was meant for, and always be able to adjust for new changes (if you change the intake, want more boost, etc.)

Welcome to your first experience with TRD's big claims . . . .

by the way, there are large threads on tundrasolutions.com that deal with the s/c problems and the V8.

creed

Weedo

I'm the one who raced Todd's 4 Runner.

There are some key things here. His truck is ~250lbs heavier, slightly taller tires, and 4-wheel drive drag. I've taken A LOT of cars/trucks to the 1/4 mile over the years. I know pretty close what kind of losses one should expect. TRD claims, what, 118hp for the Supercharger?

- 250lbs on a torquey V8 (more tq than hp) should be about a 1 to 1.5 tenth of a second loss.
- the 4 wheel drive may sap another 15hp on the high end (about 1 tenth).
- taller tires, maybe another .1

If you add those up, you may be at a 30-35 TOTAL HP loss. This is for sure on the high end of things. 118hp would in no way, heat or not, turn into a 30hp advantage. After owning 2 Ford Lightnings (supercharged) I can tell you the heat kills about a tenth and a half on the 1/4 mile times. But it also takes around a tenth off all of my N/A cars.

Not that anyone has directly said this, but, if anyone thinks you can "dismiss" these losses as all the HP/TQ gained by the Supercharger, I'd have to say you're wrong.

Now, the most important piece is that Todd and I switched trucks and raced again over and over again. My 2 wheel drive launches better, and leaps ahead about 1/2 car lenght. His TRD has a minor hesitation at launch, then hesitates throughout the entire RPM band. Just before it shifts, there's another hesitation, then once it's shifted, there is a big drop in power, then it picks up again. As we all know, the V8 is normally silky smooth from idle right through shifting. I'm 99% sure the PCM is just plain mapped wrong. If you put it on a dyno, the graph would look more like a mountain range, up down up down up down!!!

TRD needs to help out here and do the right thing to correct this. 118 hp should equate to a HUGE gain in peformance and my 2wd should not even be close in any way shape or form!! An extra, say, 80hp should be at the wheels, with a good 100ft/lbs of tq. Or is it really 35hp at the wheels?????? If so, then our 25 or so runs would make sense. But who would spend $5,000 for 35hp??? They need to make this right.

Todd, keep us all posted as for what they plan to do for you. If they won't do anything, I would imagine you'll see a Supercharger on Ebay soon...

Good Times

then the easiest way to determine if the sc is working or not is just getting it dyno'd

if it looks like an earthquake meter then we all know that there's something wrong but if it looks smooth then it must be something else.

good luck and keep us posted.

edit:
i wouldn't start blaming trd sooo quickly w/o any solid evidence on paper though.

Sac State

I notice you have the Borla and probably a free flow filter. Would that effect back pressure or some other demographic when attached to a S/C?

Sac State

The '05 Runner will have a s/c as an option from the factory. Price is $48K for the Bimmer beater. The unit will pump out 343hp. This vehicle was featured in a recent magazine review.

EDGE

343 sounds weak, TRD said it was 353, is that a non VVTi V8 engine with the sc from the factory cause then I would like to see a VVTi 270hp engine times verse the SC factory option now if they SC the VVTi V8 I would expect 388hp

I hope they also do this for the GX470

edit:
48k who came up with that, and that sounds like a loaded Limited, what about the Sport and SR5

twilson

Parasitic drive train loss from the All wheel drive and weight, plus Phoenix heat just couldnt eat all that claimed power (118 peak HP). If that was true then that would mean if I took off the SC then my rig would have 135hp. Seeing as I need a $5k blower to match a 2wd stock V8. I am checking into the 4wheel dyno.

Weedo

I spoke with Todd today, he's on the road. I'm sure he'll post more later. Turns out TRD is going to overnight him a new/changed ECU to put in as most of them are bad. I wonder how many people out there are running around thinking they have a fast Supercharged 4 Runner, only to find out they're no faster than stock. Seems like TRD should have made SURE this didn't happend and all of the ECU's should have been recalled. VERY un-Toyota-like.

In all reality, an ECU/PCM that's calibrated wrong could sap up ALL of the power the blower is producing. An example would be a 10.5/1 air/fuel ratio. In other words, pumping in WAY too much gas instead of allowing the blower to pump in all the air. He should know more this week once he gets the new ECU in. We'll do another few races and hopefully I get smoked as I should be!!!