Rear brake adjustment question

Crazychopstick · 06-27-2007, 09:32 PM

I recently did the drums on my 4Runner. I adjusted them according to the reverse and e-brake but was wondering this:

Is reversing and repeatedly pulling the handbrake neccessary? I noticed that while normally reversing and tapping the brakes I can hear a "clink" in the rear which I would assume to be the self-adjusters...um...self adjusting.

So correct me if I'm wrong but could you simply do the SAME thing (rolling in reverse <5mph) and just tap the brake pedal instead of pumping the e-brake handle?

drew303 · 06-27-2007, 10:38 PM

no

The brake pedal just pushes the shoes apart, the ebrake pulls the arm that actually moves the spider gear that adjust the shoes.

I'm having a helluva time with mine right now. When I rebuild my truck in August I'm going over the brakes again completely and I'll be replacing the adjusters completely.

The sieze up easily in which case the brakes NEVER adjust and wear unevenly (side to side). Just something to be aware of when you're servicing your drums. While you have the shoes off pull the the adjust apart and lube it up good.

drew303 · 06-27-2007, 10:39 PM

another option is disc brake conversion..

I'd like to smack every engineer who insists on putting drums on the rear of a light pickup truck. Can someone say STUPID?!

drew303 · 06-27-2007, 10:42 PM

drew303 · 06-27-2007, 10:44 PM

Compare the photo above to this one, you'll see how the parking brake actuates the brakes differently than your "pedal" ..

In the above picture, the guys thumb is on what you call the "Brake Piston" that pushes the shoes outward (and onto the wall of the drum).

Below that cable is your 'parking brake cable' ..that pulls to the right and that arm its attached to levers the shoes apart which pulls the arm that holds the spider gear from moving to be free and adjust. And it adjust 'downward'. The arm keeps the gear from tightening.

Crazychopstick · 06-28-2007, 09:43 AM

Ah, I see.

There's always alot of debates, especially with older gearheads about how to adjust the rear drums. My dad just believes that pulling the hand brake everytime will do the trick, but other sources state that the vehicle has to be in motion.

I lubed my adjuster, but forgot to do the other side. It's a little tougher to spin but rust isn't too much of a problem here in Texas so I'm not too worried ATM.

gpcollen1 · 06-28-2007, 11:48 AM

Next time you take yoru brakes apart try it out. All you have to do is apply the ebrake...

Texas_Ace · 06-28-2007, 12:39 PM

Speaking of taking them apart. how the heck do you take the rear drums apart???

I was trying to check them before i left on a trip and i could not get either side to come apart no matter how hard a pulled, proded or begged. I could get them to brake lose so i know that rust was not the problem (i am in Texas as well, bet you never could have guessed...;-) but it would still not comw apart. I tried losening the tensiner but still no go. I did the screw in the drum trick and still no go.

So how do you get them to release the rotor?

RacerX · 06-28-2007, 02:09 PM

In most cases tapping (hammer) the face of the drum around the perimeter will loosen it up a but and allow the drum to slide/wiggle off... sometimes a bit of WD40 at the base of the studs and the center of the "hub" can make all the difference

Texas_Ace · 06-28-2007, 02:19 PM

Yep did all of that and although the hammer did give me a little movment not more than 1/4 inch. I kept pulling and i saw that it looked liek the pads would not let go of the rotor. At least that is the best i could tell.

It was free everywhere except inside where i could not see or free.

Nismo Convert · 06-28-2007, 03:46 PM

You need to loosen the star nut on the brake cylinder, to retract the pads and slide the drum off. And when putting them back together always apply liberal amounts of Anti-Seize on the hub to brake drum mating surfaces.

drew303 · 06-28-2007, 03:57 PM

Star nut on the brake cylinder? huh?
You mean the line going into it? Allow air into it?

Your pads shouldnt touch the drum if your parking brake AND brakes are NOT engaged... that is in the perfect world. Usually a good hammering and a few scuffed fingers and a lot of cursing get the drums off.

Also, the toyota brakes adjust JUST by actuating the parking brake. You dont 'have' to do the reverse trick. You can actually 'see' this when you have the drum off. just actuate the parking brake with your hand (just push the lever inward on the back of the brake backing plate) and you can see how it adjusts the screw. Simple.

"Shoe clearance should be 0.6mm (.024")."

~ http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/maintenance/rearbrakes/

Also, sometimes when the pads wear unevenly. Usually caused by old drums, or the pads are just getting worn.. But more commonly that adjuster jams you can get a 'clicking' noise thats not associated with the adjuster or parking mechanism its one shoe catching more than another. The shoes will click where they hit the backing plate. (usually the at the base where the spring holds them together.. on the pivot end of the shoes). Also if the axles are warped or the runout is excessive the drum will hit the brake shoes unevenly and cause them to catch and skiff in a sense (makes the same clicking, kinda like the sound you could imagine from overextending a old creeky spring). The brake shoes are attached (losely, floating) to the backing plate while the drum is on the axle, like i said if runout is excessive the drum will cause the shoes to move around which causes other noises).FYI

I've experienced all of the above. I guess I've had my fair share of time working on these damn brakes.

Nismo Convert · 06-28-2007, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drew303

Star nut on the brake cylinder? huh?
You mean the line going into it? Allow air into it?

Your pads shouldnt touch the drum if your parking brake AND brakes are NOT engaged... that is in the perfect world. Usually a good hammering and a few scuffed fingers and a lot of cursing get the drums off.

No the star nut is there under the rubber cover on the backing plate of the drum, it's not exactly on the cylinder, it's bellow it, other drums have them on the arm that goes into the cylinder. You're thinking of the FLARE nut on the brake line.

The star nut is the adjuster, you have to (usually) back that off to get the pads over the lip that is worn in the drum after years of stopping.

techno · 06-28-2007, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas_Ace

Speaking of taking them apart. how the heck do you take the rear drums apart???

So how do you get them to release the rotor?

There are two small threaded holes on the drum, in between the wheel studs. Simply screw in an M8 x 1.25 bolt and it will force the drums off as you screw them in.

Crazychopstick · 06-28-2007, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas_Ace

Speaking of taking them apart. how the heck do you take the rear drums apart???

I was trying to check them before i left on a trip and i could not get either side to come apart no matter how hard a pulled, proded or begged. I could get them to brake lose so i know that rust was not the problem (i am in Texas as well, bet you never could have guessed...;-) but it would still not comw apart. I tried losening the tensiner but still no go. I did the screw in the drum trick and still no go.

So how do you get them to release the rotor?

Spray some WD-40 or PBlaster and loosen the star wheel. Facing the drum from the outside, I believe you turn it away from yourself and down. Then thread in the two bolts and alternate turning them. It will slowlu push the drum out.

Texas_Ace · 06-28-2007, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nismo Convert

You need to loosen the star nut on the brake cylinder, to retract the pads and slide the drum off. And when putting them back together always apply liberal amounts of Anti-Seize on the hub to brake drum mating surfaces.

Good tip on the Anti-seize. I tryed the star nut in there a quite a few turns but nothing seemed to change. I could not even really tell if it was turning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by techno

There are two small threaded holes on the drum, in between the wheel studs. Simply screw in an M8 x 1.25 bolt and it will force the drums off as you screw them in.

Yep, tryed that as well, that is how i got the little i got. I didn't want to keep doing it because it was takeing a LOT of force to screw them in and it was still not getting them off. They would seem to come out a little but when i took the screws out the rotor would snap back to almost all the way back on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazychopstick

Spray some WD-40 or PBlaster and loosen the star wheel. Facing the drum from the outside, I believe you turn it away from yourself and down. Then thread in the two bolts and alternate turning them. It will slowlu push the drum out.

Tryed that except for the WD-40 but it was not seized where that would have done the trick.

Nismo Convert · 06-28-2007, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas_Ace

Good tip on the Anti-seize. I tryed the star nut in there a quite a few turns but nothing seemed to change. I could not even really tell if it was turning.

It's there with a spring, you will likely have better luck with an angled screw driver/prybar that fits in the hole there, this will take all the slack out of the spring, and allow you to rotate the start nut, to loosen, I believe you have to push down. This is how I did the rear brakes on my Corolla, and many cars I worked on when I worked for Ford. If you think you have loosened the star nut enough; push the drum back on, and try to pull it off straight.

techno · 06-29-2007, 06:11 AM

When screwing in the M8 bolts, try hitting the around the outside of the drum with a rubber mallet. The 'vibrations' from the blows will help loosen the shoe pressure on the drum. Hit the drum with good force, multiple times after every 1/2 turn of the bolts. This works every time for me and I find it easier than trying to loosen the adjuster mechanism.

gpcollen1 · 06-29-2007, 07:09 AM

You have to release the little lever/spring/thingy to be able to adjust the brakes in a few turns to facilitate removal of the drum. Then you can either bang the drum or use the bolts to get it loose/off. You would benefit in using a brake adjuster tool and not a screwdirver if that is what you are using.

06-27-2007, 09:32 PM	#1 (permalink)
Crazychopstick Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Tejas Posts: 199	Rear brake adjustment question I recently did the drums on my 4Runner. I adjusted them according to the reverse and e-brake but was wondering this: Is reversing and repeatedly pulling the handbrake neccessary? I noticed that while normally reversing and tapping the brakes I can hear a "clink" in the rear which I would assume to be the self-adjusters...um...self adjusting. So correct me if I'm wrong but could you simply do the SAME thing (rolling in reverse <5mph) and just tap the brake pedal instead of pumping the e-brake handle? __________________ Chris 1997 Toyota 4Runner (3.4, 4x4) daily driver, magical parking space finder 1982 Volvo 240 beater, money pit, pimpmobile

06-27-2007, 10:38 PM	#2 (permalink)
drew303 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Olympia, WA Posts: 1,493	no The brake pedal just pushes the shoes apart, the ebrake pulls the arm that actually moves the spider gear that adjust the shoes. I'm having a helluva time with mine right now. When I rebuild my truck in August I'm going over the brakes again completely and I'll be replacing the adjusters completely. The sieze up easily in which case the brakes NEVER adjust and wear unevenly (side to side). Just something to be aware of when you're servicing your drums. While you have the shoes off pull the the adjust apart and lube it up good. __________________ 1987 Toyota P/U 4x4 pics/info

06-27-2007, 10:39 PM	#3 (permalink)
drew303 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Olympia, WA Posts: 1,493	another option is disc brake conversion.. I'd like to smack every engineer who insists on putting drums on the rear of a light pickup truck. Can someone say STUPID?! __________________ 1987 Toyota P/U 4x4 pics/info

06-27-2007, 10:42 PM	#4 (permalink)
drew303 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Olympia, WA Posts: 1,493	__________________ 1987 Toyota P/U 4x4 pics/info

06-27-2007, 10:44 PM	#5 (permalink)
drew303 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Olympia, WA Posts: 1,493	Compare the photo above to this one, you'll see how the parking brake actuates the brakes differently than your "pedal" .. In the above picture, the guys thumb is on what you call the "Brake Piston" that pushes the shoes outward (and onto the wall of the drum). Below that cable is your 'parking brake cable' ..that pulls to the right and that arm its attached to levers the shoes apart which pulls the arm that holds the spider gear from moving to be free and adjust. And it adjust 'downward'. The arm keeps the gear from tightening. __________________ 1987 Toyota P/U 4x4 pics/info

06-28-2007, 09:43 AM	#6 (permalink)
Crazychopstick Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Tejas Posts: 199	Ah, I see. There's always alot of debates, especially with older gearheads about how to adjust the rear drums. My dad just believes that pulling the hand brake everytime will do the trick, but other sources state that the vehicle has to be in motion. I lubed my adjuster, but forgot to do the other side. It's a little tougher to spin but rust isn't too much of a problem here in Texas so I'm not too worried ATM. __________________ Chris 1997 Toyota 4Runner (3.4, 4x4) daily driver, magical parking space finder 1982 Volvo 240 beater, money pit, pimpmobile

06-28-2007, 11:48 AM	#7 (permalink)
gpcollen1 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Connecticut (NY State of Mind) Posts: 360	Next time you take yoru brakes apart try it out. All you have to do is apply the ebrake... __________________ '99 SR5 Sport - Desert Dune: AirRaid MIT, OEM Air Filter, Toyo 265/75/16 ATs, Deckplate, PP Springs and Bilsteins, Cheapo nerf bars, Injector replacement impending

06-28-2007, 12:39 PM	#8 (permalink)
Texas_Ace Contributing Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: DFW TEXAS BABY! Posts: 2,461	Speaking of taking them apart. how the heck do you take the rear drums apart??? I was trying to check them before i left on a trip and i could not get either side to come apart no matter how hard a pulled, proded or begged. I could get them to brake lose so i know that rust was not the problem (i am in Texas as well, bet you never could have guessed...;-) but it would still not comw apart. I tried losening the tensiner but still no go. I did the screw in the drum trick and still no go. So how do you get them to release the rotor?

06-28-2007, 02:09 PM	#9 (permalink)
RacerX Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Houston, Tx Posts: 88	In most cases tapping (hammer) the face of the drum around the perimeter will loosen it up a but and allow the drum to slide/wiggle off... sometimes a bit of WD40 at the base of the studs and the center of the "hub" can make all the difference __________________ 97 4runner 2.7L Auto 2WD Radiant Red, Hypersilver Tundra wheels, Tundra brake upgrade, Cooper ATRs ---In the garage--- 88 BMW E30 M3- stroker motor-- garage queen 93 NX2000-road race car-- 2250lbs@300whp/tq--kidney killing suspension and a few dents

06-28-2007, 02:19 PM	#10 (permalink)
Texas_Ace Contributing Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: DFW TEXAS BABY! Posts: 2,461	Yep did all of that and although the hammer did give me a little movment not more than 1/4 inch. I kept pulling and i saw that it looked liek the pads would not let go of the rotor. At least that is the best i could tell. It was free everywhere except inside where i could not see or free.

06-28-2007, 03:46 PM	#11 (permalink)
Nismo Convert Registered User Join Date: May 2007 Location: Kincardine, Ontario Canada Posts: 163	You need to loosen the star nut on the brake cylinder, to retract the pads and slide the drum off. And when putting them back together always apply liberal amounts of Anti-Seize on the hub to brake drum mating surfaces. __________________ Current POS': 1986 Mazda RX7 TII. Haltech E6x, Koni Yellows, solid motor mounts, 10psi 290ishwhp Stock turbo, and stock intercooler... 1991 Toyota Corolla, AKA Crolls Royce. Sold 1995 Toyota Tacoma! 2.7L 4WD 5SPD. The Purple People Eater:TrueFlow Filter, Bilstein HD's, Magnaflow cat, 2.5" Lift, Bilstein 5150's, 265 Toyo OC A/T's, Hawk LTS pads, Brembo brakes; thats it... For now... 2009 Corolla Sport, 5spd, stock for a lonnnnnnnnngggggggg time.

06-28-2007, 03:57 PM	#12 (permalink)
drew303 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Olympia, WA Posts: 1,493	Star nut on the brake cylinder? huh? You mean the line going into it? Allow air into it? Your pads shouldnt touch the drum if your parking brake AND brakes are NOT engaged... that is in the perfect world. Usually a good hammering and a few scuffed fingers and a lot of cursing get the drums off. Also, the toyota brakes adjust JUST by actuating the parking brake. You dont 'have' to do the reverse trick. You can actually 'see' this when you have the drum off. just actuate the parking brake with your hand (just push the lever inward on the back of the brake backing plate) and you can see how it adjusts the screw. Simple. "Shoe clearance should be 0.6mm (.024")." ~ http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/maintenance/rearbrakes/ Also, sometimes when the pads wear unevenly. Usually caused by old drums, or the pads are just getting worn.. But more commonly that adjuster jams you can get a 'clicking' noise thats not associated with the adjuster or parking mechanism its one shoe catching more than another. The shoes will click where they hit the backing plate. (usually the at the base where the spring holds them together.. on the pivot end of the shoes). Also if the axles are warped or the runout is excessive the drum will hit the brake shoes unevenly and cause them to catch and skiff in a sense (makes the same clicking, kinda like the sound you could imagine from overextending a old creeky spring). The brake shoes are attached (losely, floating) to the backing plate while the drum is on the axle, like i said if runout is excessive the drum will cause the shoes to move around which causes other noises).FYI I've experienced all of the above. I guess I've had my fair share of time working on these damn brakes. __________________ 1987 Toyota P/U 4x4 pics/info Last edited by drew303 : 06-28-2007 at 04:01 PM.

06-29-2007, 06:11 AM	#18 (permalink)
techno Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 68	When screwing in the M8 bolts, try hitting the around the outside of the drum with a rubber mallet. The 'vibrations' from the blows will help loosen the shoe pressure on the drum. Hit the drum with good force, multiple times after every 1/2 turn of the bolts. This works every time for me and I find it easier than trying to loosen the adjuster mechanism. __________________ 00 4Runner SR5 4x4

06-29-2007, 07:09 AM	#19 (permalink)
gpcollen1 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Connecticut (NY State of Mind) Posts: 360	You have to release the little lever/spring/thingy to be able to adjust the brakes in a few turns to facilitate removal of the drum. Then you can either bang the drum or use the bolts to get it loose/off. You would benefit in using a brake adjuster tool and not a screwdirver if that is what you are using. __________________ '99 SR5 Sport - Desert Dune: AirRaid MIT, OEM Air Filter, Toyo 265/75/16 ATs, Deckplate, PP Springs and Bilsteins, Cheapo nerf bars, Injector replacement impending