martin

Tripitz,

That color combination looks awesome! Great looking rig.
Off subject - have you had any problems with your 2002 M3's engine? I want one, but I am very reluctant with their current problems.

Martin

Tripitz

Happy New Year!

Thanks guys for the positive comments! After I finalized the deal, I spent more time reading here and I was cringing!! I'm pleased with the car.

As for the BMW M3, ALL M3s up until December 2002 production have an extended engine warranty of 6 years/100k miles. Cars after the December 2002 production (ie, an 03 model you would order) have a revised engine setup and should not have any problems (assuming they fixed the real problem) and have the standard4/50 warranty. BMW has been standing behind their product so far, which is comforting to see. The car is an absolute beast to drive, especially with SMG (the sequential manual gearbox). www.roadfly.org is a good place to get info.

Which brings me to my 4Runner. I just put 550 miles on it and all I can say is that I am very impressed. I'm amazed at the quietness of the cabin, the comfort level, and the nice overall road feel of the car. I feel the handling is quite good for what it is and the v8 is just a blast! I averaged a little over 18mpg which is pretty respectable. Once I get the car broken in properly, I'll give it gp offroad to see how it holds up. In any event, I think the 4Runner is great.

JGage

Bite me ! I have the Limited ! <G>

Tripitz

Hehehe... I"m not sure how much better the cladding is vs paint or even getting it 'fixed'. When I took delivery, it looked like there was a scratch on it and it took some time to get it out. (not sure what it was, but its gone now...)

Is it me or are the limiteds selling and some sports, but no SR5's?

My dealer sold all 6 of his Limited in the last 5 days. The SR5's were still sitting around...

JGage

Hey within 1 hour of taking delivery... I hop out of the car and the clip on my pocket knife leaves a nice 8" scratch down the inside panel of my door. One freakin' hour.
My girlfriend looks over and says "Well, it couldn't stay new forever, dumbass."

I'm starting to see the '03s on the road now... SR5's included. Lot of silver and grey, one black, one gold. This is in NW Florida.

Tripitz

Ouch.. sorry to hear that you damaged the car. The dealer was upset that I actually took time to inspect the car. It had some minor flaws, but nothing to keep me from signing the papers. The first damage to any new car always hurts the most.

I''m actually seeing '03s on the road now as well.. I saw 2 today alone out on the road. I did get a lot of looks on my trip the last 2 days.

thepoolguy

I'm not seeing many (any?) 03s here in the Bay Area other than mine. Maybe its the economy. Every time I think I see one from behind, it's just another sequoia. Is it just me, or are these very similar from the rear?

BT17R

JGage, ya gotta love the ladies for their sometimes unsubtle reminders that we're guys.

As a guy and soon-to-be 'Runner owner, I feel your pain. I guess the inside is better than the paint, though.

BT17R

tpg, huh? The rear of the 'Runner has vertically oriented, narrow, transparent lens (Altezza style) tail lights. Sequoia has those huge road construction style lights that are also part of the liftgate. Otherwise, yeah, they're both boxes, but I tend to focus on light design. Not much else in common except for the liftgate opening.

Beowulf

From what I've heard they are all selling poorly regardless of model designation and someone mentioned to me that they are now selling them at or even below invoice and still can't get them moving. I doubt it's the economy, Toyota is already offering deals on them here in San Diego and when does Toyota offer deals on vehicles that have been just released??? Rarely ... I remember going to 5 different dealers looking for a deal on my 2001 4Runner and it was like squeezing blood from a stone...

IMO they over-engineered and over-priced themselves away from the types of people who bought 4Runners in the first place, they have way too many similar SUV's in their lineup and NO hardcore wheelers left. The people who are buying the new 2003 4Runners are not in the same age and income brackets who bought previous year models. So now Toyota does not have a vehicle to offer these people and their once loyal customers are looking elsewhere. Most people who bought 3rd gens were not looking for more passenger space, optional 3rd row seats (I heard they are supposedly working on that) and battlestar gallatica interior (they already had the Sequoia for that ).

Here is a few interesting points that I read about the 2003 4Runner (please correct me if I'm wrong):

longer than a Hummer H1
wider than a Ford Explorer
heavier than a Cadillac DeVille

Now I can only speak for myself, but none of the above points were on my wish list for a newly designed 4Runner. Just by looking at the above points you can tell already that this vehicle is not directed at those people who previously bought earlier generation 4Runners and there in lies Toyota's big f*&^ up.

Before you start thinking that I hate it or something, I don't. I think it has some really nice features and it finally (after years of customer bitching) seems to have some decent power, anyways it doesn't matter much to me I will never buy one and I already have a 2001 that I like quite a bit, but I think they really should have went in another direction completely. Toyota probably would have been better off by killing the 4Runner line completely and then marketing the new 03 as a totally different model.

Congrats on you new purchase, I hope all works out well for you!!!

Tripitz

I understand what you are saying, but I think its a result of 'progress'. If we look, ALL cars along all lines are striving for more performance, better power, more space, better handling, more 'luxury', better ride, etc... The same types of complaints I see here about the 4Runner I saw about my other cars, BMW M3's. When the second gen M3 came out, people whined that it was too far away from the ultimate street-race car. Even the 3rd gen was hailed as getting even softer, when in every way, the car is just far superior to the one it replaced.

For me the new 4Runner fit the bill. The ride is noticeably improved over the 'old' 4Runner. The V8 is a huge plus, along with the full time 4wheel drive. All the reviews have been praising the car and the few off-road reports I have read of it seem to indicate that it lives up to expectations. I do agree that the car is expensive, but so is the competition. It comes down to the question of whether one wants to pay 30k for a Found On Road Dead, or a "Pray and hope it starts" Jeep, or 32k for a Toyota. As for the products in Toyota's lineup, the Highlander looks like a joke next to the 4Runner. I think price is the #1 detractor from the car, but I think it stacks up quite well to a lot of the competition.

In any event, your 2001 4Runner is a great truck. There shouldn't be a need to upgrade for a long time

Robinhood150

The Xterra fits the bill perfectly if I were to get a new SUV.

Steve

JGage

I think it's the economy and the fact that they are new/some people do not like the cladding and are not willing to pay for the limited. We shall see if they start moving when they change that.
Not to mention it gets poor MPH and we are about to go to war.

I haven't compared it to the autos the poster listed. However, I have driven a friends 3rd Gen a good amount of time and I think the '03 is a better. I'm not bias because I own one, if it wasn't better, I wouldn't have bought it.
If had had built it, are there this I would have done differently ? Sure.
I needed a new auto, it needed to be an SUV, and out of all the ones I drove... The 4 Runner fit the bill the best (I didn't drive the Navaguessers and Esclades.)

I also want to point out that even Toyota stated that the majority of their sales were expected to be the V6 2wd (the quote I saw was something like 85%.) The V6 isn't out yet, lets all wait until it's been out for a few months. To lots of people $800 is lots of money and not worth the upgrade to a V8. I have a couple of friends who are planning on buying the 6, but aren't interested in the 8.

-The scratch doesn't bother me <G>

sleepy1405

hey i only had mine for 3-4 days before my rear left quarter panel window broke and the shattered glass made chips in the paint all the way down to my bumper. The only way to make it the way it was before is to repaint that whole panel :o( I was not a happy person, cost my a little over 500 to replace the window, I got a loner car but they didn't even buff out the stratches on my paint, they said I had to take it elsewhere for that.

Hermes

Bingo - that is the right direction. An affordable, capable, truck based vehicle sans the bells & whistles. That is why I choose the SR5 over a Limited. Don't know if I could make the leap to a Nissan, but I will most likely go back to a truck (but with 4 doors).

The '03 is not my cup of tea, but I know Toyota is designing it for me anyway.

I do hope you enjoy your new trucks. As long as it appeals to you then that is all that matters.

BT17R

Spot on. I've owned every generation 4Runner and Land Cruiser going back over 20 years. It's the same old song with every new gen release. Does anyone wonder why Toyota will more than double sales volume by broadening the 4Runner appeal? And that's while retaining the best features of the prior gens, adding terrific new content, improving fuel economy, emissions and occupant safety with much higher powered and versatile drivetrains, and actually cutting the price in real or inflation adjusted dollars compared to the last iteration. Toyota has opened the potential market for this vehicle 100% and more toward lower income demographics. Yet they still paid tribute to those that bicker over 0.5" of ground clearance while driving on-road most of the time like the rest of us. It's the first I've heard of the new Runner being over-engineered, though. I'll be glad to benefit from an all-new over-engineered SUV that costs less than the last one. I think economists call that economy of scale.

I like to think that it's longer than a BMW M3, wider than a Cayenne, and heavier than a Corvette! Actually, the article the references originally came from is here:

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...yota_4Runner_/

I like their quote: "The wealth of tantalizing features and a loaded sticker price of less than $40,000 make the new 4Runner seem like a half-priced Range Rover. With genes like that, the fourth generation's longevity is ensured."

A bit more favorable than what little I've read about the Xterra that "loaded" costs about the same as a new SR5:

http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/compa...2/page005.html

Regardless of what anyone hears, they aren't being sold anywhere near invoice. A dealer can discount any model $3,000 and still make at least another $3,000 with all dealer incentives and holdback. Nationwide inventories are running about 35 days supply while the industry average is 60 days. In some areas, I wouldn't doubt that 4X2 SR5's are backing up for good reason. The model mix estimates will be adjusted as needed to respond to market within 90 days. Look at what they're doing to the non-Limited cladding already. My dealer says that about half of new Runner sales are to prior Runner owners, the rest are other SUV conquest trade-ins, exactly what Toyota predicted in their pricing matrix.

As I've written before, I'm pumped! Can't wait until delivery day.

Beowulf

2003 4WD 4Runner SR5 Sport Edition:
www.Carsdirect.com $30,828
Dealer Invoice $29,528 You do the math...

I don't see people flocking to it, if they are doing so great in sales why is there already a design change in offering cladding that now matches the body? Think a car company just redesigns something a few months after it's been released? It couldn't be that people just think it's ugly or not interested in it and it's just not selling as expected ... could it?

All the new little gadgets and trinkets puts the 4Runner in an entirely different catagory than before, it was a simple vehicle now its a wanna be BMW. This alienates the catagory of people that once bought that vehicle. And I did not mean over-engineering in a derogatory way, I have nothing against technology, just simply stating that they over-engineered it into a different catagory now.

Economic pseudo-science aside, I can only go with what my wallet says and my wallet says it cost 4k more than my 01 did and for some reason that does not add up to less.

All nitpicking aside, it seems like a nice vehicle, stay pumped and enjoy your purchase!!!

Cheers

BT17R

Hannerhan

As for those who say they would rather go with an X-terra, I think it's a big POS. It has the worst engine choices of any SUV out there, and to me that is half of the battle. I would WAY rather take a 2001 SR5 with 40K on it than a new X-terra for $22k or thereabouts...
Not that I wouldn't want to see a stripped down 4WD version of the 4th gen 4Runner with the V6 for about $26K. Now that's what they should have thought about offering.

Tripitz

I find it interesting that people want a 'stripped down' 4Runner. I think the electronics added to it are a huge improvement for safety's sake and not to be attack on BMW. I feel that the skid control and stability control are pretty important items to have in any car these days. Toss in the X-REAS system and its a very impressively handling truck with enough safety features thrown in to help you get out of trouble. Downhill Assist and Hill Start Assist are probably not very useful for most people as it seems most people here at least who go offroading don't really need it or want it.

As to the comments about the 4Runner being an attack on BMW, I really don't think so. As someone who has owned 4 BMW's in the past 5 years and an almost X5 owner (am I glad I didn't buy that thing...), I notice many small things and intangibles that BMW has over the Toyota that Toyota either cannot do or will not do (on a dealer/customer relations standpoint and on an engineering/construction standpoint). The 2003 4Runner might seem more lux compared to the 3rd gen, but to me, it is still way off from the German design philosophy. That is a good thing because that is precisely why Toyota can still offer a nicely equipped 4Runner for 12-14k less than a comparably equipped 6 cylinder x5 or 20k+ less than the comparable v8 version.

As for the XTerra, I never even considered it. I was in a friend's Xterra for 20 minutes and I counted every minute on getting out of it.

Another thing, do they really think the V6 will outsell the V8 by that much? It just seems to me that the V8 variant only costs $800 more and has some nicer features (full time 4wd up here, etc.)

In any event, day 4 of ownership for me has brought some snow. I just drove around and pretty much put the car through its paces. I am definitely very impressed. I might be hitting the Sierra Nevda range and the rockies so I'm thinking about putting some snows on before I hit the road. Its a long trip out there though from New York