bamachem

have you thought about giving one of these controllers a try before giving up completely???

http://www.dccontrol.com/index.htm

Epic Ed

King -- I do think that it is more difficult for a vehicle to not over heat once the temps get really hot, but that's no excuse in my book. Crappy old beaters and unmaintained vehicles get stuck at the side of the road, but hundreds of vehicles were on the road that day and making the steep drive up to Flagstaff without any over heating issues. I want mine to run cool and stable if it's 90, 100, or 180 outside.

I'm about ready to push the thing off a cliff.

Ed

KING

Precisely my point as well, Ed.

I had a talk with my best friend's dad, a wise man and what you would consider a shade tree mechanic, and after I told him what had happened, he said its normal given its an old(er) truck and engine. Now, how come my truck seems the only one to be doing this?

There are other older cars and trucks in traffic and I see them doing well, at least they seem to be doing well.

I seem to be the only one concerned about sitting in traffice, with the AC on for longer than four minutes because of the engine's temperature.

If things continue, this will be the last summer me and my truck will be together.

I am going to get something that can sit idling with the AC on full blast for three hours, at 120 degree outside temperature and not overheat.

midiwall

Well, I think you know me well enough to know that I tend to attract failure of stuff like this. I'm also heavy on the right foot when out on the trails, so there's a lot of stress on my gear.

The fan blade breakage was a direct result of a landing after a jump MUCH higher than what you see in my avatar. No one caught it on film or video, but everyone figures I dropped at least 15-20', and hard (my right-seat navigator/run buddy/friend hurt her back pretty bad).

The best I can figure is that the stress compressed the Flex housing enough to jam the fans and crack a blade, (even if the fans weren't running at the time). When that happend, one of the blades jammed the fan from turning and instead of blowing a fuse, it burned out the new PermaCool electronic controller.

I realized what happend a while later as I was sitting on the edge of a dune about ][ that far from going over. I started boiling over and things got hot enough to pop one of my air hoses from my compressor/tank setup.

(see? I attract this type of stuff!)

Anyway... I went through that to point out that the conditions in which the blade(s) broke weren't normal. Many folks here have had great luck with running electrics, and I did as well until I played a bit on the stoopid side of having fun.


Good idea, but be careful. Inside the controller box is a mechanical thermostat much like the old coiled-spring types in houses. If you get goo on it, it ain't gonna work too good.

That controller box comes apart pretty easily... pull it apart and have a look, it'll make more sense.

(btw, you've got email!)



Yeah, I remember you pointing those out before... I even have a bookmark for the site and looked at them before getting the PermaCool.

The PermaCool unit was a solidstate device with a high current triac as a driver, so I think it should have been pretty reliable... And in hindsight, it was, though I wish it would have held up to it's stated current rating and allowed the 20amp fuse to blow before it it.

Where I am now is about $300 into it with these fans (fans, 2 mechanicals and the PermaCool), and replacing the one set of blades (if possible) and the controller will run me $80 or more. If I have to replace the fan, then I'm looking at $200ish.

I think I'm done Andy...

rimpainter.com

I just responded you big vulture!

midiwall

swoop swoop!

(thanks! I'll get back to you probs tomorrow...)

dragon564

King,

That seems to be a normal condition that was explained to me by some pit crews at SEARS POINT many moons ago. When you shut of the engine the coolant is no longer moving through the cooling system yet the properities of the coolant allow it to continue to "absorb" heat from the engine there by become even hotter than when the engine was running 20 minutes ago. If I drive for 90 minutes or more in nice temps (70F-85F) the engine will still be just a little to warm to work on a hour later. With the information that you
given here I do not see what is happening as a problem, but a very normal and to be expected condition.

Dragon

dragon564

Ed,

Okay I can hear your fustration, but think this through to the end before you push the truck over the edge. Look at what Midiwall had to say and he had to push to the other side of play to get his gear to break. On a side note if the runner can hold up to what Midiwall did and only break a fan that should be speaking volumes about the runner, many other models and makes would be in shops for more that just a broken fan. I will agree with you that you should be able to run the truck anywhere you want in AZ for as long as you need with out having to worry about an over temp A/C on or off.

Midiwall, not trying to cap on you there or steal your thunder, I give due props to ya for running like you do.....keep right on going and enjoy

In fairness we must also look at the mods that have been done since it left the show room. The is some restriction of air flow, and there is a leaning of the mix, but there has not been a change in the air handling capacity of the fan. you need to even out the deal some.

Before I came over to Japan I had a chance to drive through Barstow CA and total the car I was driving. The wrecker that picked up the car hooked me up with a ride to his shop and then one into town. The ride into town was in his Yota truck. He wanted to show of his new hood...flat black and had louver vents cut into it. He had the A/C set to south pole winter temps cause I need to put a jacket on the eng temp never even hit half and it was about 105F that day, he was doing well over 65MPH and everything was humming. Had a big bumper and winch but that truck was cold. His trade for that big bumper and winch was two rows of louvers in the hood which IMHO did look cool.

I would almost be willing to bet the price of the mods that an electric setup and louvers in you hood will cure your over temp woes. On that ole GTR the new ower got a futher 10C drop in eng temps when he had a hole cut in the hood just behind the fan. The hole give the air and heat someplace to go. The shop that did it for hooked a strob up to the fan and it turned faster with less current draw, even they where a little surprised by the gains that the hole provided.

I see it as time to even up the trade deal........

Dragon

Epic Ed

Yeah, I see you're point. Talked to the mechanic tonight -- after three days of diagnostics and testing parts he has determined:

- Fan clutch is working properly.
- Thermostat is working properly.
- Pressure tested the coolant system and found no leaks -- all hoses are in great shape and no air bubbles surfaced after attempting to burp out any air.
- AC Fan is having issues intermittently like I had discovered. He was finally able to duplicate this issue while test driving on the way home. He got stuck in traffic and the AC stopped working -- he got to suffer due pennance in 105 degree heat for the next half hour for doubting me.

He also fabbed up an air damn at the base of the T15 to funnel air flow up to the radiator. Once the AC fan is fixed tomorrow, I'll get it back and will have a chance to find out where this stands. I'm likely going to do the Tarus fan mod on my own, and I'm considering adding an oil cooler.

Any suggestions for hood modifications that will introduce more air? Cowled hood? Hood scoop? Or the louvers Dragon mentions above? Which would be the most effective?

Thanks for all the input -- I'll keep you posted.

Ed

rimpainter.com

Well, if you want to introduce more air, a hood scoop would be the way to go. However, I think you want to disperse heat in this case. The reason I say that is because it sounds like you have a new mod (designed by your mechanic) to introduce more flow, but now you just need to get it out of the engine compartment. Louvers or a cowl would accomplish this, but I would lean towards louvers since they would be closer to each exhaust manifold (or headers) which would help get some of that hot air out of there. Louvers with some type of one way valving on them (to keep monsoon rain out) would be pretty trick too.

If I were you Ed, I would definitely consider the mod I recently did first. It cost a total of $30, and seemed to improve performance slightly. I would go with a heavy duty 170* thermostat from NAPA, a bottle of Redline Water Wetter, and a 70/30 distilled water/coolant mixture. If you still have the problem, I would go with electric fans. If you still have the problem after that, I would consider louvers or a cowl hood. Those last two items are going to be high dollar items since they will involve body work to be done correctly.

My .02

Epic Ed

Body work? Gimme a can opener...


Water Wetter is a definite -- forgot about that stuff. In fact, I'll ask him to toss in a bottle today.

Ed

rimpainter.com

Water Wetter alone will not necessarily do anything. Well, it will do a little, but not much. The big payoff is being able to use more water than coolant because of the water wetter - since water has better cooling properties. The easiest way to accomplish this without a full drain and fill is to have your mechanic calculate how much to drain based on capacity. Once he lets a certain amount out (based on a 50/50 mixture), he can add the water wetter and fill the rest with distilled water.

midiwall

No probs at all Dragon. Thanks for being concerned.

Epic Ed

The saga continues...

This is un-freakin-believable. The air dam seemed to solve most of the problems, at least in the short term. I took it up to Zion NP, in Utah over Memorial Day weekend and had no problems even on the long up hill climbs. The A/C kept cutting in and out, though.

Last Sunday evening after returning home from a medium distance drive, I heard the radiator bubbling and boiling, but the engine temp was normal. I drove it again later night and didn't have any symptoms. So, I took it back to the mechanic last week -- he replaced a switch for the A/C and then started trying to find out what was causing the radiator to boil. He found a hose behind the plennum of the head cover the had a pin-hole leak and was colapsing, and likely causing the boiling. Hose replaced, vehicle returned.

I've been driving it around since Thursday in all kinds of driving conditions. Short and fast, long and moderate, and even a little up hill stuff. No problems. This afternoon on a trip to Lowe's, I arrive in the parking lot, get out of the 'Runner, and smell anti-freeze...MY anti-freeze, and the radiator is absolutely boiling over. Engine temp is completely NORMAL. I lost about a gallon of coolant but decided to start driving it home, anyway. I made it the entire way back home (6 miles) with no over-heating issues and no boiling when I arrived back home.

WHAT THE F___ IS GOING ON WITH MY POSSESSED VEHICLE!!!!!!

omg...I need a beer...lots of 'em... ...bullet, please...

Ed

dragon564

Ed,

I might have missed it but have you changed out the water pump? It is started to sound as if you might have some clogging going on in the water jacket this would creat a hot spot for sure. Do you turn your heaters on? Up front that sould bad but I know that when my Grand Parents lived in Mesa the heater core on thier car when out Just rusted through as it was never really used the water just sat thier and did its thing.... Now I realize that you have over heated many times in this thing and that is should probally be clean but have you drainined out the AF filled with water and run it for a day to see what the water looks like, no it should not be clear but then again it should not look like mud either. On every one of 3vz BHG's I have reapaired and even the one I just replaced to cheat the BHG I have dug mud out of the water ports on the back of the head. Since the head are some what inter changable for left and right one side has a water channel in the back that is not used on the other side. That channel is blocked by the HG and that is where I did all the mud out of. Some of those where trucks that had never even seen any thing but black top. With all the over heats that you have had and all the air that has gotten into your system I would think that the rust factor is starting to grow. Yes you can flush the engine but that will not clear a clog Sometimes it can creat a clog by the stuff that it does get to break free. If you have had the WP replaced then I would also condsider looking for a higher perf WP that will move more water faster. I had one car over here the owner was crying that it would not blow hot air, that required me to remove the t stat and then run warm water from a steam heater through it for almost two hours before the water ran clear again. I put it all back together again and that heater got hot in less than ten minutes....three weeks later the heater core blew out.....running all the water though it and getting all the scale and rust off the inside made a thin spot that did not last long. It seems to me that you take this to shop for the flushes and such...what is he seeing or has seen has he every seen any of the tattle tale brown of rust.....or have you????? You might also want to think about a secondary temp gauge...your might be lying to you....long drive at highway speeds lots of air flow......short trips lower speed not so much air flow....you might have been running close while you where on that long trip and not even known it.....I still think that an electric fan will give you your biggest push to no more over heats....for me 1. electric fan 2. Oil cooler. 3. hood cowls...Just my thoughts.....

trx125

I know this is rhetorical, but is the t-stat sticking half open. My truck had overheating issues put in new radiator, wp and changed the t-stat. I replaced the t-stat twice before I got one that opened all the way all the time. Problem was I would take it out and test it and open fine, leave it out and would run proper temp, put it back in and it would run fine then overheat. I finally took it out and tested about 5 times and 2 out of 5 times the thing only was cracked open or would only open half way. Finally went and bought a 2 stage t-stat and checked it about 5 times to make sure it opened properly and now even in 100+ heat w/ a/c on it dosen't even reach half way while waiting in traffic for extended periods of time. I like running the A/C in a traffic jam and seeing everyone else have to cut their cars off and open windows because the newer SUV's and cars start running hot! Just my .02 (my also have a slighty warped head that when heated up leaves just enough gap to let exhaust into the water jacket and not blow the gasket(yet) I have a chey s-10 that did that before)

Take the bumper off and see if it still overheats!

Eddie Monster

is your thermostat aftermarket or from the toyota dealer, i had similar issues on my 22re after I replaced it with a thermostat from the dealer it went away .also the flex olite fans make diffrence in performance.

bamachem

hey, before you buy the stuff for the taurus fan mod, check this out:

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f2/electric-fan-variable-speed-controller-installed-61008/

also, an oil cooler wouldn't be a bad idea since you're having trouble, but you should at least pull the t-stat and run it a while and see if that fixes your problems. a faulty t-stat can stick sometimes and stay open other times and cause headaches similar to what you have...

Epic Ed

Good info, Andy. I haven't committed to doing the electric fan, yet, but it's good to know the job is even easier than in other write-ups I've seen. The over heating is still a mystery. I've driven nearly 300 miles since the boil over and it hasn't happened again. The mechanic has had it for two days and tested the thermostat and pressure tested the system again -- no problems. I just don't get it.

Problem is, I leave tomorrow on a 1,500 mile road trip to Yosemite and I'm not exactly inspired with confidence that it will be a hassle free roadie. We'll see...

Ed

calg3

I don't buy the restricted airflow theory, but there would be an easy enough way to check. Take off the TJM bumper and Hella's and drive it for a while without them and see if the problem is still there or not...
Do you still have your stock bumper?