toyotadan

Ill tell ya... it couldnt be said better. Anyways, thanks.... this did give me a lot of the +/- of the situation.. I will definitely post pics when its finally been done...

Todd E

I think it's interesting to note that in Iceland, the Artic Trucks (4x4 shop there, I guess) utilises body lifts more than suspension lifts.
I'll have to find the link again (post here about 4x4 in Iceland).
I do think it's more personal preference. I prefer the suspension lift, but I've recently noticed some advantages to the body lift (maintaining stock ride qualities, suspension flex).
Just my thoughts,
Todd

Flygtenstein

Personal preference is where it's at, for sure.

You asked a question and I was showing you what I did in order to combat the same, or at least a very similar question. I outlined my rational and even provided pictures to illustrate the points.

I even answered with what I did because it is exactly what you were looking to do.

I read, re-read and re-read and not once, outside of the time you told us after I said it had not occurred, did the words
"91 4-Runner" appear.

I am not down for the hug, but I will buy you a beer or give you a spot if out paths cross in the real world.

Firefyter-Emt

Ok, my weigh in here.. putting a suspension lift on IFS to run 33's is dead on putting lipstick on a pig.. You can run a 1-2" body lift and pretty much stock suspension without tweaks and run 33's.. If you are going bigger than 33's get rid of the IFS, the 4 link in the rear, and SAS the front / leaf spring the rear.. Now you have no nead of a lift, with the corect springs you can be running 35's.. You have to get into some pretty damn hard core stuff to really have to go beyond 35's (Note, I said have to... Can you get thru it on 35's or will you have to back out.. There are a lot of places made eaiser with say, 38's but did you have to have them to do it?? ) The Toyota frame is retty well tucked under the body, a 1" is hardly going to show.. 2" will show more, but not too bad.. If you do a 2" you can also raise your gas tank with a little fab work and gain the clearance there (and have better fuel filler fitment) Roger Brown sells his 1" & 2" for under $100.. easy to do and the way to go for 33's.. PS, you do not need 4" of lift to fit 33's .. I am running 32's stock.. (with rub only due to the low profile bump stops.. And I have not been able to rub on a trail yet, just a hard off camber full lock turn in my back yard)

Look into it.. Save the IFS lift $$ for a SAS if you get serious later the body lift can stay even with a SAS and a 1" will allow sliders to fit best..

jruz

Dunno...I'd disagree with about 99% of that.

If it's all about fitting a bigger tire...then sure, go for the BL. If you're looking for better performance on the trail (in addition to bigger tires), then the susp. lift is really the way to go. IFS or not, you will gain more from the susp. than a BL any day. I don't think there is any waste of money either.

SAS is really only beneficial for rock-crawling...so I guess it would depend on the terrain wherever you are...

Even then, check out the latest trend in rock-buggys...yup, IFS. The most extreme of the extreme are putting fully-independent suspension on their rigs.

BTW, if you are doing "little fab work" why wouldn't you just make the suspension lift happen anyway...and get better performance?

Ok, I will leave it at that for now...
Jim

Flygtenstein

Lee, I love you man.

You do not gain any performance from an out of the box IFS lift. All you are doing is dropping the diff, spacing the bumpstops down and keeping things gosh darn near stock. There is nothing to be gained unless you add ball joint spacers.

For about 100 bucks, you can get air shocks, low pro bumpstops and rip out the swaybar and use almost all of the available IFS travel.

For about a grand, you can put on an IFS lift, have a 4" taller truck and still have comparable wheel travel.

I know where I would put my money.

Firefyter-Emt

I don't know about people flocking to IFS suspensions except for mall crawlers.. I do see a lot of coil over solid axles and 4 link.. Now there have been some chain driven IFS all the way around, but is in no way even close to the stock Toyota and never will even come close to it.. Show me a stock IFS being lifted and used.. Sure If we could put those buggie IFS in ours that is a diffrent story... But for the COST of doing it right, the SAS is the best way to go.. But Stock style IFS.. Nope, not seeing it.. Where is this "mass running of IFS taking place) Take a peek at the PBB, they are not all rock crawlers over there, and I see nothing but SAS.. You need it more than on just rock alone.. Hell a good off camber fire road can make an open IFS get stuck due to travel alone.. Unless you wheel in mud or sand, you need flex on most all terrian... What benifits are you getting from a 4Runner IFS lift?? All it does is drop the stock componets down... Where s that better? Sure, you get a better transmission clearance and frame.. But you also now have increased the the drop of the stock lower A arm brackets twice their stock length.. That is one of the weakest point on the IFS.. You bent the rear most arm mounts. But seriously, It is not the way to go with these suspensions.. Why do you think almost everyone says the same thing.. Don't do the IFS lift, do a SAS?? Is it because the IFS suspension is becoming popular?? (and I would love to see where that is taking place.. Off road..) There is a limit where you have to say.. This is junk, and I just can not throw good money after bad.. The most I would do to an IFS is a rear IFS truss, low-pro bump stops and from what it looks like, maybe those cross linked air shocks.. If you stiffen up the torsion bars to gain height you loose stuff ability.. if you just plain out put the IFS lift in you really gain no travel (sure you can do the custom long lower control arms, but then again.. Lip stick on a pig.. What is the weak spot on the 4Runner?? Do you know??
You rear bumper, the gas tank and the front control arm cross brace.. Now a body lift will gain you the bumper height, if you raise the gas tank, you gain the gas tank clearance..
Now sure, you don't gain the 4".. but you keep the axle shaft's stock angle, your drive shafts the same.. and either way, youhave kept that crappy front bar between the control arm, but with the lift, you just doubled the lever to bend the arm..

For about 2k you can put a solid axle under it, and have it well lifted, and never worry about that IFS crap again.. And it is crap.. Even lifted, it is still crap.. And that my friend, is not going to change no matter what color lip gloss you paint on it

Whack, your serve..

jruz

Haha...well, I guess we have different priorities while wheelinging. I would prefer not to drag my frame, tranny, cat, etc. across the rocks in addition to fitting bigger tires. If it's a money thing, sure...you can get the bigger tires for less with a BL, bu that's where the fun ends.

You may be comparing that $1k lift to a stock setup...but for $1k you are getting new susp. components. For the BL price you are getting no such thing. The performance benefit comes from the better components.

What's the "air shock" setup? I'm not familar with that one...

Jim

Flygtenstein

Lee, volley....

Where are you getting these better components? IIRC, IFS lifts are brackets, not new anything except rear coils perhaps.

I think the issue here is adding IFS lifts. I see no point in it.

All the stuff that is low on my truck can get hit. With the exception of the driveshafts, there is no place under my truck that you cannot jack off.

If you want to run big tires, low gears and the like, then it makes sense to swap, get 35's and go. That is well beyond the scope of the question at this point.

Monroe MA756. Search for it on ODW.

Firefyter-Emt

AUGH.... YOU ARE NOT GETTING ANY NEW COMPONETS!!!!

You are just adding some brackets to drop the same old stock stuff 4" lower!! How is that any better.. I have not had a whole lot of trouble with my frame hitting, has anyone else?? The gas tank yes, crossmember sure, sometimes.. But throw on a Budbuilt, and you have fixed that.. (Bud, man.. got mine shipped yet? do you even lurk here??...) What I am trying to say is that there is a lot of cheap little mods, that can be done for well under half the price, that can be kept once you realize the IFS lift is indeed crap and switch to a solid axle.. The crossmember, the body lift (just for the slider clerance alone.) the gas tank lift.. They can all be kept.. Wheel it like that untill you out grow the 33's and then SAS it and you won't be like the daily sales post on the PBB selling a used IFS lift for 25% or less than what they bought it for... :pat:

Seriously, the SAS is so common, and so easy now and it is the most cost effective way to really be able to make the truck a wheeler.. Not going to achieve those goals with you bone stock IFS sitting 4" lower than it did before.. It still sucks.

BTW.. I see you have a Taco.. Don't forget, we are talking entirely diffrent suspension here.. You have that one with the struts and mini-van steering componets.. Not even close in design..

(can I say "sucks" here.. I guess if it is only used with the word IFS is is ok...)

jruz

Yes, welcome to PBB where IFS is the ultimate n00b thing. Yup, don't need not stinkin' IFS here...
Well, please leave and return to your precious PBB. I could seriously give a rats arse about that BB. Occasionally there is more than just ranting, whining, and testosterone flinging.

Alright, apparently we are not referring to the same lift. Just exactly which IFS lift are you both referring to? (please post a link) All the ones I know of at least include new shocks...which perform better than stock. Again, this is not included in the price of a BL.

The gas tank yes, crossmember sure, sometimes.. But...
Aha! Yup, there is a "but" isn't there. Well, with the suspension lift there is no "but". You have that extra clearance included...imagine that...

Just to address the whole SAS thing...you are talking about the BL because it is cheap, the SAS is not cheap...get over it. An IFS lift is thousands of dollars less than the SAS, why are you comparing them. Sure, the SAS is better and more desirable...but when you spend more than twice as much you would expect at least that much, right...?!?

Jim

jruz

Why are you attacking my Taco, we are talking 2nd gen 4Runners here. I DO have one of those also. It will not have a lift because it is not used for wheelin'. So...please stick to the matter at hand.

Jim

Firefyter-Emt

I know that, and it was not an attack (really) I wanted to make sure YOU were not talking about gains from a Taco lift kit... When you started talking about new componets, I was begining to wonder... A little tease on the rack & pinion.. But that is a weak link as I am sure you will agree..

jruz

True, but it'll still turn 33s just fine. 35s might be a stretch, but hey if I'm going there I might as well go for the SAS right...?

Hehe...the backhand can be rough. Ball's in your side of the court...

Jim

Firefyter-Emt

Sure thing I will leave.. But first lets put a poll up to see if the content I have posted to this board has ever helped out.. I think my experiance on all the boards that are around, is well known..
And if you can not see thru the PBB banter that is over there, you are missing out on the BEST wheeling tech that is gathered at one place.. Most of it is hard core sure, but they have made the mistakes, they have "been there and done that" and the whole "Yup, don't need not stinkin' IFS here..." attitude is from getting sick of having to explain over and over, much like this post, why it is not worth doing in the first place!

Oh, btw.. there is a lot more to the PBB than chit-chat, ya know...

I am done trying to argue about IFS being good for anything other than in it's stock form.. Yes, Someday I will SAS my rig.. But in the mean time, I think the stock IFS is a workable suspension.. I have not said it is not useable... It is just not feasable to sink 50% of the cost of the SAS into it just to do a SAS later..

Firefyter-Emt

Dammit.. now I gotta reply just once more..

Yes, and they have started to SAS Taco as well due to the weak front drive train.. Give it time, and they will be as common as 2nd gen trucks...

And, yes.. If you are goinf to run 35's, you should.. No back hand applied here..

jruz

Haha...no don't leave. All I meant is that I would not go quoting info from PBB. There is probably as much garbage as there is cool stuff. IMHO, it is not the be-all/end-all for 4x4'n info. Only a fool would go there an take everything at face value.

I am not discounting the benefits of the solid axle, however the subject of this is BL's...and if he is talking BL's because the price is right...then a SAS is no-where near the ball-park (in terms of $$ AND in terms of the trail-value). However beefing up the IFS is in the ballpark.

re: Taco SAS, yup they are common, just not in my area. I too plan on going that route as I would like to be more than just a casual wheeler.

Jim

PoBoy

$100 for a BL vs. $1000 for a suspension...pretty different parks to me. For $1000 you could get a BL, new tires, and shocks that would be much more beneficial than a suspension lift still running on stock tires. Tires alone will bring you farther than the best suspension lift.

jruz

Careful there...I wouldn't make such a broad statement.

You are right about the other part, it is personal preference.

You might want bigger tires only, and I would rather do more than just fit bigger tires.

Jim

Flygtenstein

I leave for class and what do I miss....

Neither IFS lifts nor bodylifts do anything more than allow the fit of larger tires. I am talking about pure and out of the box. They both keep stock components, one adding brackets and IMHO, weakening the set-up.

There has been some good discussion about facts in this, I, for one, think and hope that it helped some who are reading and thinking about 33's.

In the end, facts are not personal preference. I think that we have answered this dudes question and provided some good facts for others to check out.

I'm out.