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Old 02-02-2006, 06:54 AM   #1 (permalink)
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need to install shoulder belt to replace lap belt

Has anyone replaced the middle rear lap belt with a shoulder belt?
Any info would be greatly appreciated! I've been striking out on all searches.

96 sr5 4runner.
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Old 02-02-2006, 07:59 AM   #2 (permalink)
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What would you anchor it to? I'm confused...
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Old 02-02-2006, 08:06 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I would say that you'd need to find a good anchor point on the roof, then get a 14mm, grade 8 i believe, bolt. And an anchor point on the floor. It can be done. You're best off getting a seatbelt, buckle and brackets from a donor vehicle, then it's just a matter of mounting it.
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Old 02-02-2006, 08:29 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Yeah, that's the biggest thing-where do I safely mount the thing? I'd like to use the current lap belt mounts for 2 points. What about the floor or the back of the seat (seems it'd be too flimsy). I'm not sure where on the roof it could go that the sheet metal wouldn't just rip out. Grade 8, definitely.

Hmmm......a roll cage with a mount point?
Ok, that's just crazy! I heard roll cages were allergic to running boards anyways.....
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http://www.yotatech.com/f200/habaner...thread-201751/
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Habanero - you ride a Gary Fisher, you change your own oil, AND you have a man-eating pumpkin pie as your avatar. You are anything BUT a soccer mom. :D

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Old 02-02-2006, 08:30 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oly884
I would say that you'd need to find a good anchor point on the roof, then get a 14mm, grade 8 i believe, bolt. And an anchor point on the floor. It can be done. You're best off getting a seatbelt, buckle and brackets from a donor vehicle, then it's just a matter of mounting it.
I don't think there are any mounting points on the roof strong enough. I am sure you could rig it up, but I wouldn't put my life or others in jeopardy doing so. I rigged up a system to adapt LATCH to the rear seats of my 4runner but you are talking about retaining a 200-300 lb person which can weigh at least 20-30 times that during a collision impact.

Is there a reason you want to change it out?
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Old 02-02-2006, 08:40 AM   #6 (permalink)
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It's for little boy in a booster seat-so yeah, I want it to be able to hold a 300# person without doubt. No way in H E double hockey sticks am I going to chance the little guy.

My boyo is going to outgrow the 5 point harness in another 10# and will be using the regular belt with a booster. I've also got a couple of step-kids and none of them are old enough for the front seat, especially with the airbag. Kids and lap belts don't mix well.

No one better mention the word minivan! I'm not going to be on pavement (or stock) forever.
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http://www.yotatech.com/f200/habaner...thread-201751/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacoclimber View Post
Habanero - you ride a Gary Fisher, you change your own oil, AND you have a man-eating pumpkin pie as your avatar. You are anything BUT a soccer mom. :D
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Old 02-02-2006, 08:46 AM   #7 (permalink)
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It might be easier to mount a 4-point harness. I don't see how you could mount a shoulder belt in the center of the rear seat without an internal cage with a crossmember behind the rear seat.
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Old 02-02-2006, 09:12 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremys73
It might be easier to mount a 4-point harness. I don't see how you could mount a shoulder belt in the center of the rear seat without an internal cage with a crossmember behind the rear seat.
100%
There is no way to do this that will not make it potentially MORE dangerous, other than adding something like a rollbar behind the seat with a cross bar at the right height. Then if you get in an accident and someone gets hurt - you will be Raptus Regaliter.
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Old 02-02-2006, 09:43 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Are you so against putting him on the passanger side rear seat? I know the middle is safer but I have no idea of the stats for injuries from either position. I have an 8month old and at times we put her seat on the side (my wife has a back injury and has tough time lifting out the chubby one from a middle position).

(hijack) MTL4runner I know you rigged the LACTH yourself, but was there any anchors in the 2001 or 2002 one could install? I thought of checking out if there is such a possiblity (hijack off)
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Old 02-02-2006, 09:57 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Hmmmm, talking the hubby into a rollbar.....

A 4-point? That's an idea I'll have to look into more seriously. Someone getting hurt is NOT an option. If I can't find a safe way to do this I'll have to come up with something else. I looked into 3rd rows which come with shoulder belts but
A) if shoulder belts can be put on aftermarket 3rd rows where and how are they attached and can I use this info for what I'm trying to do
and
B) I'm worried about crumple zones. I'm still open to a 3rd row though I use my cargo space for my bike junk and tools.

I have no problem putting the boyo on the side to get a shoulder belt if that's how it's gotta be but how do I decide which of the other 2 kids draws the short straw and gets the lap belt?

Te audire no possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure.
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'96 4Runner SR5 4x4, manual, e-locker, manual hubs too. Stuff happened to it. Stuff is still happening to it.

'99 4Runner SR5 Highlander, manual w/locker. Stuff is starting to happen to this one too...but not too much stuff.

http://www.yotatech.com/f200/habaner...thread-201751/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacoclimber View Post
Habanero - you ride a Gary Fisher, you change your own oil, AND you have a man-eating pumpkin pie as your avatar. You are anything BUT a soccer mom. :D
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Old 02-02-2006, 10:25 AM   #11 (permalink)
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On the boosters the tabs at the side are for repositioning the shoulder belt, but I don't think a shoulder belt is required. (safer yes) I believe that you still anchor the seat itself (depending on the type of booster (stage 2-3). So why do you need a shoulder belt?
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Old 02-02-2006, 10:57 AM   #12 (permalink)
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As I understand it the booster is to raise the child up so that the shoulder part of the belt is properly postioned across his body. You can get boosters with 5 point harnesses up to 40# but they use the shoulder belt after that. You cannot use a booster without a shoulder belt. I was suprised that you anchor the seat in the later stage by using the lap belt over the seat and kid together, too.

A shoulder belt without a booster for a kid under 4'9" or a lap belt used by itself can cause serious internal injuries during a crash.

That's why.
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'96 4Runner SR5 4x4, manual, e-locker, manual hubs too. Stuff happened to it. Stuff is still happening to it.

'99 4Runner SR5 Highlander, manual w/locker. Stuff is starting to happen to this one too...but not too much stuff.

http://www.yotatech.com/f200/habaner...thread-201751/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacoclimber View Post
Habanero - you ride a Gary Fisher, you change your own oil, AND you have a man-eating pumpkin pie as your avatar. You are anything BUT a soccer mom. :D
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Old 02-02-2006, 11:04 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadtripr
(hijack) MTL4runner I know you rigged the LACTH yourself, but was there any anchors in the 2001 or 2002 one could install? I thought of checking out if there is such a possiblity (hijack off)
Even if there are anchors in later models, most are not bolt in applications (from what I remeber....someone correct me if I am wrong). Often they are welded to the frame or unibody substructure. I have not looked into what the 01s and 02s had other than they had no parts that could be bought to install a LATCH system from the Toyota dealer (other than the top tether anchor).
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Old 02-02-2006, 12:28 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habanero
.... but how do I decide which of the other 2 kids draws the short straw and gets the lap belt?

Te audire no possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure.
Cracked me up!

Love the avatar by the way.

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
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Old 02-02-2006, 12:58 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by habanero
I have no problem putting the boyo on the side to get a shoulder belt if that's how it's gotta be but how do I decide which of the other 2 kids draws the short straw and gets the lap belt?
.
I see. Then maybe the roll bar then or could it be attach to strong point in the cargo floor. I noticed JC whitney has options for seat belts.

MTL thanks for the update, I guess I will keep fighting with the belt to fix the child seat.
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Old 02-02-2006, 02:51 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habanero
As I understand it the booster is to raise the child up so that the shoulder part of the belt is properly postioned across his body. You can get boosters with 5 point harnesses up to 40# but they use the shoulder belt after that. You cannot use a booster without a shoulder belt. I was suprised that you anchor the seat in the later stage by using the lap belt over the seat and kid together, too.

A shoulder belt without a booster for a kid under 4'9" or a lap belt used by itself can cause serious internal injuries during a crash.

That's why.
Our child is about 5 pounds away from the point of moving up to the booster And has been for the last year and probably will be for the next year). I will need to read up on it again (I know there are differances between Canada & US. Up here you can still buy the suicidal low back booster that only uses the lap belt. There are two kinds (one that is safe per US crash tests) and one style that will allow your kid to fly like a rag doll (the one with the arm and the belt crosses the arm not the kid. I agree on getting the safest for your kid I am the same way. How many kids do you have? Why don't you consider putting your child on the ouside seat with the shoulder belt. I know that the middle is the safest but I personall y would feel better having my child on a belt that was tested by the gov't rather than something I rigged up and felt was safe (not that I don't trust myself but ya never know). I'll be watching this post because you got me thinking about what we will do.
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Old 02-02-2006, 02:55 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Hmmmm, talking the hubby into a rollbar.....

I have no problem putting the boyo on the side to get a shoulder belt if that's how it's gotta be but how do I decide which of the other 2 kids draws the short straw and gets the lap belt?
The biggest one as they have more developed back muscles to withstand any force in an accident.

Or buy a Sequoia - my wife loves hers and I am stuck driving a rusty 14 year old runner or a high milage 13 year old Camry - but she gets the goods with the kids - safety first.
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Old 02-02-2006, 04:31 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by celica
Or buy a Sequoia - my wife loves hers and I am stuck driving a rusty 14 year old runner or a high milage 13 year old Camry - but she gets the goods with the kids - safety first.
Sounds like me....wife gets the 4runner, I get the commuter Civic.
......totally jealous, want a Sequoia or Tundra but waiting for lower used prices.

Roadtripr, if I was going to secure it to anything other than a standard seatbelt attach point, I would use the cargo floor. Just be sure to use large fender washers so the bolt won't pull through the sheetmetal.
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Old 02-02-2006, 05:41 PM   #19 (permalink)
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You guys are the greatest! Great comments, ideas and out-loud thinking.

We can't afford another car...this replaced my other one with only 4 seats/both rear with lap belts but I didn't think about the seat belt issue b/c of the baby seat not needing a shoulder belt. I shoulda been thinking clearer.

Well, no matter, We'll get this worked out and I'm lovin' my goofy blue 4runner.
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'96 4Runner SR5 4x4, manual, e-locker, manual hubs too. Stuff happened to it. Stuff is still happening to it.

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http://www.yotatech.com/f200/habaner...thread-201751/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacoclimber View Post
Habanero - you ride a Gary Fisher, you change your own oil, AND you have a man-eating pumpkin pie as your avatar. You are anything BUT a soccer mom. :D
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Old 02-03-2006, 08:57 AM   #20 (permalink)
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MTL I agree. Either a large washer or a bracket (looked like some of the aftermarket belts might come with a bracket). But I would always be a bit worried since it may or may not be strong enough.
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Old 02-03-2006, 08:57 AM
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