Manual Hub Kit for $700 ??? Would you buy it ???
07-06-2004, 07:24 AM
#81
Just color me stupid
Originally Posted by sschaefer3
The most important thing to keep in mind is that these parts came off of the chapest possible 4X Toyota makes.
Keeping that in mind, the truck DID NOT have ABS, and will not have ABS sensor fittings, The cheapie truck also had tiny tires and the smallest brakes possible. The larger rotors will not fit without moving over the larger backing plates.
Get it?
Keeping that in mind, the truck DID NOT have ABS, and will not have ABS sensor fittings, The cheapie truck also had tiny tires and the smallest brakes possible. The larger rotors will not fit without moving over the larger backing plates.
Get it?
Pardon my stupidity and try not to flame me too bad, but please do explain.
07-06-2004, 08:17 AM
#82
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Your truck has ABS, right? The Taco did not. That means that the Taco spindles aren't drilled and tapped to accept an ABS sensor, hence the need to use your original spindles.
Your truck came with 16" rims, right? If so, you have 13" rotors, larger calipers and backing plates. The Taco stuff will have smaller brakes (rotors, calipers and backing plates) you don't want to use those.
The bearings are pressed into the spindles, the hubs are pressed into the bearings. So, to use the Taco Manual Hubs on your spindles, both sets have to be pressed out. It took a 17 ton press to push out my ADD hubs. While doing the press work one of my hubs was stuck in the bearing, so the bearing started to come out with the hub and because there is a lock ring holding the bearing in they destroyed my spindle, a new one was $332. You cannot salvage the bearings, when they are pressed out they are destroyed. Then you have to press new bearings and the manual hubs into your original spindles and don't forget the brass lock nut that has to be torqued to 203 ft lbs.
$440 for used taco Junk shipped
$200 in new bearings and seals
$240 in press work at the dealer
$330 for a new spindle
$1210=Jim's Taco Manual Hub Conversion
I'll admit this conversion was probably a bad decision on my part. If I had it to do again I would not. I would have gotten a front ARB and said I'm done. I thought I could do it for $600 and change...not the case. Be prepared to pay dealer rates for bench work and possible complications. I have heard of others who destroyed their spindles doing the conversion as well.
Get 2 lockers and wheel it! You'll be fine with ADD. Just carry a spare axle and the tools to swap it.
Your truck came with 16" rims, right? If so, you have 13" rotors, larger calipers and backing plates. The Taco stuff will have smaller brakes (rotors, calipers and backing plates) you don't want to use those.
The bearings are pressed into the spindles, the hubs are pressed into the bearings. So, to use the Taco Manual Hubs on your spindles, both sets have to be pressed out. It took a 17 ton press to push out my ADD hubs. While doing the press work one of my hubs was stuck in the bearing, so the bearing started to come out with the hub and because there is a lock ring holding the bearing in they destroyed my spindle, a new one was $332. You cannot salvage the bearings, when they are pressed out they are destroyed. Then you have to press new bearings and the manual hubs into your original spindles and don't forget the brass lock nut that has to be torqued to 203 ft lbs.
$440 for used taco Junk shipped
$200 in new bearings and seals
$240 in press work at the dealer
$330 for a new spindle
$1210=Jim's Taco Manual Hub Conversion
I'll admit this conversion was probably a bad decision on my part. If I had it to do again I would not. I would have gotten a front ARB and said I'm done. I thought I could do it for $600 and change...not the case. Be prepared to pay dealer rates for bench work and possible complications. I have heard of others who destroyed their spindles doing the conversion as well.
Get 2 lockers and wheel it! You'll be fine with ADD. Just carry a spare axle and the tools to swap it.
Last edited by Albuquerque Jim; 07-06-2004 at 08:23 AM.
07-06-2004, 08:30 AM
#83
Thank you
Originally Posted by Albuquerque Jim
Your truck has ABS, right? The Taco did not. That means that the Taco spindles aren't drilled and tapped to accept an ABS sensor, hence the need to use your original spindles.
Originally Posted by Albuquerque Jim
Your truck came with 16" rims, right? If so, you have 13" rotors, larger calipers and backing plates. The Taco stuff will have smaller brakes (rotors, calipers and backing plates) you don't want to use those.
Originally Posted by Albuquerque Jim
The bearings are pressed into the spindles, the hubs are pressed into the bearings. So, to use the Taco Manual Hubs on your spindles, both sets have to be pressed out. It took a 17 ton press to push out my ADD hubs. While doing the press work one of my hubs was stuck in the bearing, so the bearing started to come out with the hub and because there is a lock ring holding the bearing in they destroyed my spindle, a new one was $332. You cannot salvage the bearings, when they are pressed out they are destroyed. Then you have to press new bearings and the manual hubs into your original spindles and don't forget the brass lock nut that has to be torqued to 203 ft lbs.
Originally Posted by Albuquerque Jim
$440 for used taco Junk shipped
$200 in new bearings and seals
$240 in press work at the dealer
$330 for a new spindle
$1210=Jim's Taco Manual Hub Conversion
$200 in new bearings and seals
$240 in press work at the dealer
$330 for a new spindle
$1210=Jim's Taco Manual Hub Conversion
Many thanks Jim for you gracious answer!
Last edited by waskillywabbit; 07-06-2004 at 08:32 AM.
07-06-2004, 08:42 AM
#84
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I had no way to even loosen the brass locking nut let alone tighten it. I takes a special toyota tool (I think Steve has the part # though). Some torque wrenches go that high, some don't.
I also didn't have a press with enough power to budge the hubs, like I said it took 17 tons all I had access to was 10 tons.
Yes, you are looking at about $900+, without any complications.
The dealer didn't do anything wrong, they followed procedure but the hub was stuck in the bearing so it broke. This was at 4:30 PM and I needed my truck the next day, so I had to get a new one to get back on the road.
Another thing, I removed my spindles at home and took all 4 spindles and all of the new bearings and seals into the dealer to have the bench work done. I had bought everything because I thought I could do the press work myself. I also have a 15% discount at the dealer because I started a business account.
Was it worth it?
Like I said above. I wish I would have gotten a front ARB and said I'm done.
However, since I did it...I do like knowing that everything isn't turning all the time and I should have much less wear on my CV's Etc making it all last longer.
I also didn't have a press with enough power to budge the hubs, like I said it took 17 tons all I had access to was 10 tons.
Yes, you are looking at about $900+, without any complications.
The dealer didn't do anything wrong, they followed procedure but the hub was stuck in the bearing so it broke. This was at 4:30 PM and I needed my truck the next day, so I had to get a new one to get back on the road.
Another thing, I removed my spindles at home and took all 4 spindles and all of the new bearings and seals into the dealer to have the bench work done. I had bought everything because I thought I could do the press work myself. I also have a 15% discount at the dealer because I started a business account.
Was it worth it?
Like I said above. I wish I would have gotten a front ARB and said I'm done.
However, since I did it...I do like knowing that everything isn't turning all the time and I should have much less wear on my CV's Etc making it all last longer.
Last edited by Albuquerque Jim; 07-06-2004 at 06:19 PM.
07-06-2004, 08:53 AM
#85
ADD vs. Manual hubs
I got power tools to get the brass nut off as I can buy the special tool for the brass lock nut; retorquing it I'll have to figure out and I imagine we have a press at work that could easily do the work required. I'm just surprised the dealer does their own press work and doesn't sub it out.
I guess what I see is the inevitable breaking a CV on the trail and having to fix it right there w/ ADD, cause it is going to happen if you are locked up front eventually; or having manual hubs and limping back home in 3 wheel drive and fixing it in a more convenient spot, plus less wear and tear on the CVs. I also just prefer the aesthetics of manual hubs on a 4x4, just something about it that just makes it right with the world.
Thanks for all the info Jim! I got some spare parts to trade in and the local bone yard so I'm hoping to get the Taco junk for less and cut my cost.
I guess what I see is the inevitable breaking a CV on the trail and having to fix it right there w/ ADD, cause it is going to happen if you are locked up front eventually; or having manual hubs and limping back home in 3 wheel drive and fixing it in a more convenient spot, plus less wear and tear on the CVs. I also just prefer the aesthetics of manual hubs on a 4x4, just something about it that just makes it right with the world.
Thanks for all the info Jim! I got some spare parts to trade in and the local bone yard so I'm hoping to get the Taco junk for less and cut my cost.
Last edited by waskillywabbit; 07-06-2004 at 08:54 AM.
07-06-2004, 01:16 PM
#87
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Originally Posted by Albuquerque Jim
The dealer didn't do anything wrong,
Originally Posted by Albuquerque Jim
However, since I did it...I do like knowing that everything isn't turning all the time and I should have much less wear on my CV's Etc making it all last longer.
07-06-2004, 01:25 PM
#88
Wow. $1200 to know that you won't wear out CV's that are $80/side with a lifetime warranty. I know there's more to it (with a front locker) and there's advantages to having the CV shafts stationary while on the road, and the ability to unlock a hub when you break and axle, but I just don't see the justification for $1200. I don't see the justification for $900 either. Seems like Jim said - that money could be better spent on a front locker and be done with it.
Last edited by bamachem; 07-06-2004 at 07:52 PM.
07-06-2004, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by keisur
above you said they forgot to remove the snap ring, that's their fault.
Originally Posted by Albuquerque Jim
While doing the press work one of my hubs was stuck in the bearing, so the bearing started to come out with the hub and because there is a lock ring holding the bearing in they destroyed my spindle.
They were not negligent, they performed the procedure as specified.
My junk broke, it's only $, I have Manual Hubs.
Last edited by Albuquerque Jim; 07-06-2004 at 01:32 PM.
07-06-2004, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by 00Runner
If that doesn't sound like Steve Schaefer talking... 
:pat: I'm just tryin' to put things into perspective.
There's no sense in trying to rationalize the hell out of why we spend so much $ on our trucks to make them go where they weren't designed to go, we just do it. And "It's Good!" (read with voice by Jim Carey in Bruce Almighty)
07-06-2004, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by waskillywabbit
If you are replacing everything from the diff out why swap bearings?
07-06-2004, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Albuquerque Jim
Was it worth it?
You don't have the thicker ORS axle shafts, but close enough. It's not a 9" FJ axle by anymeans but it was a major improvment, mechanically.
07-06-2004, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by sschaefer3
Actually if you think about it, it is. You have "fixed" the screwed up front end that you screwed up when you lifted it. If you break something you have a choise to fix it now or just drive in 3WD. The front is now full floating instead of semi, big improvement. You also have the bombproof Aisin hubs.
You don't have the thicker ORS axle shafts, but close enough. It's not a 9" FJ axle by anymeans but it was a major improvement, mechanically.
You don't have the thicker ORS axle shafts, but close enough. It's not a 9" FJ axle by anymeans but it was a major improvement, mechanically.
07-06-2004, 05:38 PM
#95
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It always makes me laugh when people gripe about prices on things they do not have.
Marmot has them, Schaefer has them, Hunt has them, Jim has them. Yup, you are right, must be worthless.
The thing not yet mentioned is Jim has the Aisin hubs. Much lower profile, much stronger hub, less turn to lock, stock cone washers are still used. Yeah, manual hubs are a waste, especially doing it this way instead of in the kit.
Marmot has them, Schaefer has them, Hunt has them, Jim has them. Yup, you are right, must be worthless.
The thing not yet mentioned is Jim has the Aisin hubs. Much lower profile, much stronger hub, less turn to lock, stock cone washers are still used. Yeah, manual hubs are a waste, especially doing it this way instead of in the kit.
07-06-2004, 06:28 PM
#96
Originally Posted by waskillywabbit
Correct. ABS, okay so I reuse my 4Runner spindles. Got it.
Nope, 15" rims with 3.90 gears, so I got smaller rotors, calipers and backing plate, so I'll reuse those.
Okay, new bearings go into my 4Runner spindles and then the Taco hubs are pressed into the new bearings. Got it. How the heck did you torque something to 203 ft lbs? Does a plain ole torque wrench go that high? I can't remember.
So I'm looking at about $900 realistically. The dealer did the press work or subbed it out. If THEY fubared the spindle, why did you have to buy a new one?
Many thanks Jim for you gracious answer!
Nope, 15" rims with 3.90 gears, so I got smaller rotors, calipers and backing plate, so I'll reuse those.
Okay, new bearings go into my 4Runner spindles and then the Taco hubs are pressed into the new bearings. Got it. How the heck did you torque something to 203 ft lbs? Does a plain ole torque wrench go that high? I can't remember.
So I'm looking at about $900 realistically. The dealer did the press work or subbed it out. If THEY fubared the spindle, why did you have to buy a new one?
Many thanks Jim for you gracious answer!
07-06-2004, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by waskillywabbit
Nope, 15" rims with 3.90 gears, so I got smaller rotors, calipers and backing plate, so I'll reuse those.
If your brakes are the same as a Taco you could just run the Taco spindles "as is" and just deal without ABS...
I know the guys who have SAS'd Tacos just cut off the wires and deal with the ABS light on the dash.
OR
If you want to really do it right (since you have larger than stock wheels and tires), find a donor 4Runner with the bigger 13" brakes and a Taco with Manual Hubs and use the big brakes and the maunal hubs. The you'll have done a nice upgrade.
Just a few other options to consider.
Last edited by Albuquerque Jim; 07-06-2004 at 07:17 PM.
07-06-2004, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Flygtenstein
Jim has the Aisin hubs.
http://fastq.com/~sschaefer/aisin_manual_hubs.html
