QuattroDave

Time for front brakes on my 1994 2WD pickup. Rotors are slightly warped, and have seen three sets of pads, so I'm figuring new pads and rotors.

Pulled the wheel off, and it appears the rotors and hubs are separate. Is this accurate?

About a year ago, I'd heard some front end noise, and had my mechanic replace the front wheel bearings. Since that's been done recently, it seems to me no need now for a repack.

So, can I remove the rotors from the truck without removing the hubs? If I pull the caliper bolt, and swing the caliper up out of the way, will the rotor just slide off the wheel studs? Is it really that easy?

If anybody else has done this, I'd like to hear.

Also, your recommendations on a mail-order discount Toyota parts place. Our local dealer like to be hard to work with.

Also, do I need anything else besides pads/rotors? Is there a hardware kit, with the spring clips for the rotors? And should I be replacing that caliper bolt?


Thanks!

Dave

JSB

I haven't done the brakes on my 4runner yet, but I've done brakes on my Rx7, Civic, Suburban, and TL-S. They all were the same. Undo the caliper pull the rotor off take them up to a local garage. Have them turn the rotors. (if they haven't been turned too many times already) Buy new pads. Put the rotors back on. Put your new pads on, and boom your done. Be sure to undo the brake fluid cap, and watch it when you putting the new pad on. If your fluid is full, you'll most likely push some fluid back out. If your anal you may want to have your lines flushed too. Just to make sure you didn't get any air in your lines. It's quite simple. You should have that much trouble, and I can't see the 4runner being that much different.

QuattroDave

Hi JSB,

Mine is not a 4Runner, it's a 2WD pickup. I would expect significant differences between the brake system on a vehicle that sends drive power to the front wheels (4Runner) and one that does not. I know, from my experience of having just bought rotors, that the part numbers for the 4Runner rotors, and my 2WD truck's rotors are different, and the price is very different!

I've seen two different styles of front disk brakes in my vehicles. My RX-7 was a first-gen. When you removed the rotor, the wheel bearings came with it. So, if you were replacing rotors, you either moved the bearings from one rotor to another, or you bought new bearings. If you turned the rotors, you had to repack the bearings because of the machining particles that got into the bearings. In the case of this pickup (now that I've done it), when you remove the rotor, you have not exposed the bearings, so the job is quite a bit simpler.

By the way, I'll toss this out there for the other at-home mechanics to contemplate. It's the way I've dealt with brakes for 20 years. A mechanic friend agrees with me, but most mechanics don't. The point is this: I NEVER turn rotors. Because they are forced to by law, manufacturers have a "minimum thickness" specification on rotors. That's the only reason, I think.

I have had the unpleasant experience of having a rotor start falling apart in chunks. If a previous owner has overheated the brakes enough times, there can be hairline fractures in those rotors, or the metal's crystalline structure can begin re-arranging itself in a lower-energy (lower strength) lattice. The truck has 160k miles on it. The rotors have been heated enough times to wear out three sets of pads. I couldn't see turning them, even though they were "officially" thick enough. Particularly since they are warped.

If a rotor is warped, it warped for a reason. The reason is heat. So, for the way YOU drive, that rotor is already too thin, even if it meets manufacturer's specs. If a rotor was warped, and I had it turned as a part of a brake job, it would be warped again in 6-12 months. If I'm replacing my disk pads, and they are not worn down to the rivets, the surfaces of the rotors look nice and flat and maybe even shiny - no grooves. That was actually the case this time, except that they were warped, which is why I replaced them. On occasion, I'll find that the rotors have worn thin where the pads contact them. In that case, I might use a Dremel to knock down the high edge, but that's it. Now, I've been doing brakes this way for a lot of years, and my "replacement" brakes (almost always using OEM pads) have always lasted as long as the originals. On sedans and two-seat sports cars, that's about 80-100k miles on the front and 150k on the rears.

As a DIYer, my time is valuable. Where I live, it costs $40 to have a shop turn the rotors. And, at least 90 minutes to go there and back, and that assumes they'll do them when I show up. I bought brand-new Toyota rotors for this job for $48 each from Jay Mark Toyota in Houston. So I paid $56 more, saved at least 90 minutes and feel good about the new rotors.

One of my mechanic friends told me that in these days of "just replace it", there are fewer ways for a shop to earn money. Turning rotors is one of those remaining ways. The income is all profit to the mechanic. That's one reason why many mechanics recommend turning brand new rotors, too. It is interesting to note that the local dealers, and the independent shops, all recommend turning rotors. When I asked them why, they all said the same thing "preventive maintenance". When I asked what difference I would notice whether they were turned or not, they all said I would not notice any difference. I asked if there'd be a different warranty whether they were turned or not, they said no. I asked "what if the pads were worn down to the rivets, and the rotors were gouged" and they all said that would probably require removing too much metal, so they'd have to replace them! So, I think the evidence I've got is that in most cases, turning rotors is unnecessary and, in fact, thins the rotors, making warpage more possible.

Another place where you and I differ is on the subject of whether or not to bleed the fluid. I always bleed the fluid. Brake fluid is hygroscopic - it absorbs water from the atmosphere. If you live in a desert (high mountains), you may not have this problem. But here where we get 20" of rain every year, most mechanics recommend annual brake fluid changes. Not just a bleed to get the air out of the lines, but a complete change. Brake fluid should be clear. If yours is not, you are WAY past time for a change. The material that's causing the fluid to be dark is oxidation from the brass parts in your brake system. That oxidation is caused by water in your fluid. About 10 years ago, a mechanic told me that if you change your brake fluid every year, thus flushing out the water, you will never have to replace any of the hydraulic components - master cylinder, calipers or wheel cylinders. I've followed that advice, and sure enough, I've never had an MC, caliper or wheel cylinder fail since then. So, for me, it's an "always" item. My owner's manual says every two years on this one.

As I said, only my experience; this is not industry standard.

So, the truck is done, my brakes no longer pulsate and now I need to decide what to do about tires/wheels. The tread is thin and it's rainy now, so for a brief period the truck has enough power to spin the wheels, thanks to hydroplaning.

Dave

williemon

Very informative!!

I cant offer any info on the 2 wheel drive version, sorry. I just had to comment on a very fine presentation. I saw something the other day also that sent me to another site where a guy explaines that a warped rotor is not really warped. What people call a warped rotor, is where the pad has heated to a point where it has deposited a chunk of its material on the rotor in such a thickness in one spot to cause the pulsation. If the material is removed, and new pads installed, the pulsation is gone. Turning the rotors will remove the material, but will thin down the rotors making them get hotter quicker and causing the pad to overheat quicker and then it will soon leave a chunk of itself behind once again. Intresting theory he had. Either way though, once you get a pulsation, time to replace rotors. Thanks for the info.

Cebby

I had a bad experience getting my 4Runner rotors cut. I've been told by more than one mechanic that you shouldn't cut the 4Runner rotors. If you do they will warp easily and rather quickly. Then you'll need new rotors anyway. This happened to me, so I know it's true.

Jay

We dont just turn rotors because it makes us money.

Jay