Flooring with the S/C...
02-20-2003, 02:47 AM
#21
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Martha's Vineyard Island, MA
Posts: 840
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
BlueTrane -
I assume you are using the same foam filter that alot of guys are using. The dealer is incorrect about it being too restrictive; it is the exact opposite. I can't use the foam filter because it causes my engine to run too lean and exacerbates the lean condition. You need to present your truck to them without any intake mods. The odd smell you are getting in the cabin is probably because of that lean condition.
I am afraid that again the tech has it backwards and I would bet you are running lean at cruise and not as lean
at WOT.
I also get an occassional popping in the manifold when I go to 100% throttle that sounds like a timing/fuel problem. I've had this before on another vehicle but cannot explain intelligently why it happens. All I know is that it is a tuning issue.
You need to get a district manager and TRD rep involved in this problem now. You also need to start a paper trail.
I assume you are using the same foam filter that alot of guys are using. The dealer is incorrect about it being too restrictive; it is the exact opposite. I can't use the foam filter because it causes my engine to run too lean and exacerbates the lean condition. You need to present your truck to them without any intake mods. The odd smell you are getting in the cabin is probably because of that lean condition.
I am afraid that again the tech has it backwards and I would bet you are running lean at cruise and not as lean
at WOT.I also get an occassional popping in the manifold when I go to 100% throttle that sounds like a timing/fuel problem. I've had this before on another vehicle but cannot explain intelligently why it happens. All I know is that it is a tuning issue.
You need to get a district manager and TRD rep involved in this problem now. You also need to start a paper trail.
03-31-2003, 08:29 PM
#22
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Lewisville, TX
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
After a month of being in and out of the shop, the dealer said they have come to the bottom of my problem. They unbolted the exhaust from the flange and took it out for a spin. They told me the surging and noise had disappeared.
Their explanation is that there is TOO MUCH back pressure when it is floored suddenly. They also managed to fry the supercharger belt while testing it. This tells me it is probably backfiring and wearing down the belt.
They advised me to put the stock exhaust back on because the S/C is designed for it. I don't really understand this. Isn't an aftermarket exhuast supposed to flow more free. You can see my Flo Pro exhuast on Corey's page. The exhuast shop told me the only thing more open are glasspacks.
I'm still stumped. I think when they unbolted it, there is no back pressure. With no back pressure it performs way under powered. I think it wasn't backfiring because it wasn't producing full power.
Any ideas? I think I'll call TRD as soon as possible.
Thanks.
Their explanation is that there is TOO MUCH back pressure when it is floored suddenly. They also managed to fry the supercharger belt while testing it. This tells me it is probably backfiring and wearing down the belt.
They advised me to put the stock exhaust back on because the S/C is designed for it. I don't really understand this. Isn't an aftermarket exhuast supposed to flow more free. You can see my Flo Pro exhuast on Corey's page. The exhuast shop told me the only thing more open are glasspacks.
I'm still stumped. I think when they unbolted it, there is no back pressure. With no back pressure it performs way under powered. I think it wasn't backfiring because it wasn't producing full power.
Any ideas? I think I'll call TRD as soon as possible.
Thanks.
04-01-2003, 01:24 AM
#23
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Martha's Vineyard Island, MA
Posts: 840
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
IF your exhaust system is a free-flow design, SOMEONE has their information exactly backwards. The OEM exhaust is much more restrictive. See what happens with the OE system back in place; it's not that hard to switch back. I just put my OE system back on and leave for a road trip in about an hour. I'll let you know what I think when I get back.
04-03-2003, 05:23 PM
#25
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Martha's Vineyard Island, MA
Posts: 840
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
I just returned from a 600+ mile road trip and I am thrilled to report the following observations on my trip: I started by driving 236.9 miles at an average of 72 mph and got 19.2 mpg. This was after puttering around on this Island and after changing the TRD exhaust system, going back to the OEM system. On the first leg of the trip the ECU was learning the new (real world <g>) driving characteristics. I know that is true because I watched the changes to the vacuum readings get progressively higher as well as the improvement in driveability.
I tried creating all the classic scenarios in order to make the engine ping, but it would not happen, not once! When I got to my destination, my around town driving was smooth and my mileage was 17.5 mpg for 164 miles driven.
IMPORTANT
I did a number of WOT rolling runs and the only thing I noticed was when the transmission kicked down under load, there was first the usual blower hesitation and then a quick pop or cracking sound coming from the intake plenum (?). I don’t know what that is or why it happens and I would like an explanation.
On my trip back, I got stuck in a 1-hour / 4-mile traffic jam caused by a jackknifed TT truck, but after I got out of that mess I averaged 66 mph for a total of 235.7 miles, yielding a very impressive 22.7 mpg. All in all, the driveability was seamless. I can say that SOTP performance may be down a percent, but the overall performance is excellent and I have peace of mind that most likely the tuning should be well within limits. I want to pull a couple of plugs to see what the burn color is so that I know better about the combustion mixture.
For reference sake, my modifications are STOCK INTAKE and STOCK EXHAUST and the TRD Supercharger.
I tried creating all the classic scenarios in order to make the engine ping, but it would not happen, not once! When I got to my destination, my around town driving was smooth and my mileage was 17.5 mpg for 164 miles driven.
IMPORTANT
I did a number of WOT rolling runs and the only thing I noticed was when the transmission kicked down under load, there was first the usual blower hesitation and then a quick pop or cracking sound coming from the intake plenum (?). I don’t know what that is or why it happens and I would like an explanation.
On my trip back, I got stuck in a 1-hour / 4-mile traffic jam caused by a jackknifed TT truck, but after I got out of that mess I averaged 66 mph for a total of 235.7 miles, yielding a very impressive 22.7 mpg. All in all, the driveability was seamless. I can say that SOTP performance may be down a percent, but the overall performance is excellent and I have peace of mind that most likely the tuning should be well within limits. I want to pull a couple of plugs to see what the burn color is so that I know better about the combustion mixture.
For reference sake, my modifications are STOCK INTAKE and STOCK EXHAUST and the TRD Supercharger.
04-04-2003, 08:01 AM
#26
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: San Diego
Posts: 229
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have the same sound on my truck. It doesn't happen all the time, but when I floor it, I get a pop and then acceleration.
My feeling is the sound that the original poster here was getting is this same "pop" or backfire and the clank is a loose exhaust system or just the sound of the pop in the system.
Mike
My feeling is the sound that the original poster here was getting is this same "pop" or backfire and the clank is a loose exhaust system or just the sound of the pop in the system.
Mike
04-04-2003, 09:34 AM
#27
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Martha's Vineyard Island, MA
Posts: 840
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
My gut feeling about this is that the sound is not a normal or good thing. 
I think that what 'WE' are experiencing is one of the issues raised by installing the SC without doing the proper tuning. I don't know, it could be a misalignment of the TPS, fuel trim and ignition advance not being correct for the given manifold pressure at that moment. 
I seriously doubt that Toyota had it in mind for their customers to be street racing in the Stop & Shop parking lot. 
Now that I drive the truck more in its present state, I believe that it takes less throttle pressure to propel the truck, so this means to me that the low end and midrange torque has improved.
I think that what 'WE' are experiencing is one of the issues raised by installing the SC without doing the proper tuning. I don't know, it could be a misalignment of the TPS, fuel trim and ignition advance not being correct for the given manifold pressure at that moment. I seriously doubt that Toyota had it in mind for their customers to be street racing in the Stop & Shop parking lot. Now that I drive the truck more in its present state, I believe that it takes less throttle pressure to propel the truck, so this means to me that the low end and midrange torque has improved.
04-11-2003, 01:18 PM
#28
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Lewisville, TX
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would agree ManyMods, but this is unacceptable. The part is supposed to be fully compatible with the stock system. Regardless, I talked to TRD a couple days ago. They said they had heard of a T100 that was backfiring with an aftermarket exhaust.
Unfortuneatly, I don't have the stock muffler anymore and it costs $310 to get a new one. This makes a simple test impossible. Toyota of Dallas insists its the Flo-Pro muffler, yet they won't guarantee it. So if I down the money on the exhuast, they won't pay for it or take it back if that doesn't fix the problem.
Luckily, I took it to another dealership (45 min away) recommended by TRD in East Dallas. After about 1.5 hours, the tech came out and told me that the nose near the pully was making entirely way to much noise and he suspects it is the cause. They ordered a new nose and internal turbines to replace the current ones. Thank god for warranties. I'm not getting my hopes up but this option is a lot better than spending a bunch of money on a hunch.
I'll keep you informed if your interested. BTW, the tech said the nose had been known to go faulty and TRD has come out with a better one. I don't know if this is true or not.
Nick
Unfortuneatly, I don't have the stock muffler anymore and it costs $310 to get a new one. This makes a simple test impossible. Toyota of Dallas insists its the Flo-Pro muffler, yet they won't guarantee it. So if I down the money on the exhuast, they won't pay for it or take it back if that doesn't fix the problem.
Luckily, I took it to another dealership (45 min away) recommended by TRD in East Dallas. After about 1.5 hours, the tech came out and told me that the nose near the pully was making entirely way to much noise and he suspects it is the cause. They ordered a new nose and internal turbines to replace the current ones. Thank god for warranties. I'm not getting my hopes up but this option is a lot better than spending a bunch of money on a hunch.
I'll keep you informed if your interested. BTW, the tech said the nose had been known to go faulty and TRD has come out with a better one. I don't know if this is true or not.
Nick
04-11-2003, 02:56 PM
#29
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Bay area, CA
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nick,
I think most later model 4runners with S/C have pinging problem with high gear and low RPM. I think Gadget has explained nicely about this and how to fix it.
http://www.gadgetonline.com/pingfix.htm
Check this site out and look into "Split Second" webside as well. They have a fix for pinging.
Good luck.
I think most later model 4runners with S/C have pinging problem with high gear and low RPM. I think Gadget has explained nicely about this and how to fix it.
http://www.gadgetonline.com/pingfix.htm
Check this site out and look into "Split Second" webside as well. They have a fix for pinging.
Good luck.
04-11-2003, 04:13 PM
#30
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Martha's Vineyard Island, MA
Posts: 840
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Hi Nick, Mike ...
I swear, I can't remember what I am doing anymore or who I am talking to.
Thank you for keeping this subject alive. After all, it is something that is of interest and concern to many of us. 
Okay, let me update you on what I have learned recently regarding the popping sound under the hood. I have started a dialogue with Magnuson about this issue and what they want me to do first is to tie back the actuator rod on the intake bypass system so that it remains in the open position. I should then try to replicate the situation where the popping sound occurs. They’re thinking this is a mechanical problem and is either associate with the bypass valve being improperly adjusted or just defective. I have not had the time or weather conditions allowing me to run the test. I was told that Mr. Gadget had something on his website about the bypass system, but after scanning through it a couple of times, I could not find the info.
TRD was very interested in what I had found concerning my loss of performance with the TRD exhaust as well as with any intake opening mods. I thought this was an interesting tidbit that came out of my conversation with Magnuson. In truth they said, the SC designed for Toyota was really not designed to work with any exhaust enhancements. I told them that I was itching to install headers with my OE exhaust and I thoght that would work better than the catback exhaust did. They told me they would not recommend it and said that I would lose low-end torque and boost, and therefore losing performance. They felt it was very likely that by opening up the intake and exhaust, the engine was running too lean and that I would experience problems. They said the 2nd Generation Series-62 SC was a very finely designed and precise piece that on its own would make the engine more efficient and powerful according to its original design specs. Remember, they claim that it requires no ECU adjustments in timing or fuel trim modifications. I tend to believe that since my engine is running so extremely well right now.
On anothe note, I just finished doing the ISR mod. I sent pictures of how I did it to Dr.Z. since I have not figured out how to post pics here on the board yet. In essence, what I did was to get a 5-1/2” long piece of electrical grade PVC with a 2-1/2” ID. I measured in 3/4” on either end and shaved the tubing wall down about 1/8” and in from the end to that ¾” mark. I then beveled the inside wall from about 3/8” in out to the end so that the end thickness was about 1/16”. This was so that when the tube was installed the airflow would not hit a ‘step’ that would interrupt the airflow and create turbulence. The best way to machine the PVC pipe is to use a lathe, but since I didn’t have one I used my high-speed die grinder and a grinding stone. I made a jig and went to work.
I am not going to make any comments on observations at this time but the ISR pipe came out very well and fits perfectly. The main thing is that there must not be ANY air leaks at the connections.
One other thing I want to interject at this time. For those of you thinking about installing headers and therefore having to cut the elbow on the cat of an ’01 or ’02 4Runner; a new cat will cost you over $600 if you should ever want to reverse the installation and go back to your OE manifolds. I bought a used '01 cat for $150 just in case I decide to install headers.
Also, do not discard your OE exhaust manifolds. 90% of the people who I have known who have sold cars have had problems if they did not have their OE manifolds. 
Well, that's it for now.
I swear, I can't remember what I am doing anymore or who I am talking to.
Thank you for keeping this subject alive. After all, it is something that is of interest and concern to many of us. Okay, let me update you on what I have learned recently regarding the popping sound under the hood. I have started a dialogue with Magnuson about this issue and what they want me to do first is to tie back the actuator rod on the intake bypass system so that it remains in the open position. I should then try to replicate the situation where the popping sound occurs. They’re thinking this is a mechanical problem and is either associate with the bypass valve being improperly adjusted or just defective. I have not had the time or weather conditions allowing me to run the test. I was told that Mr. Gadget had something on his website about the bypass system, but after scanning through it a couple of times, I could not find the info.
TRD was very interested in what I had found concerning my loss of performance with the TRD exhaust as well as with any intake opening mods. I thought this was an interesting tidbit that came out of my conversation with Magnuson. In truth they said, the SC designed for Toyota was really not designed to work with any exhaust enhancements. I told them that I was itching to install headers with my OE exhaust and I thoght that would work better than the catback exhaust did. They told me they would not recommend it and said that I would lose low-end torque and boost, and therefore losing performance. They felt it was very likely that by opening up the intake and exhaust, the engine was running too lean and that I would experience problems. They said the 2nd Generation Series-62 SC was a very finely designed and precise piece that on its own would make the engine more efficient and powerful according to its original design specs. Remember, they claim that it requires no ECU adjustments in timing or fuel trim modifications. I tend to believe that since my engine is running so extremely well right now.
On anothe note, I just finished doing the ISR mod. I sent pictures of how I did it to Dr.Z. since I have not figured out how to post pics here on the board yet. In essence, what I did was to get a 5-1/2” long piece of electrical grade PVC with a 2-1/2” ID. I measured in 3/4” on either end and shaved the tubing wall down about 1/8” and in from the end to that ¾” mark. I then beveled the inside wall from about 3/8” in out to the end so that the end thickness was about 1/16”. This was so that when the tube was installed the airflow would not hit a ‘step’ that would interrupt the airflow and create turbulence. The best way to machine the PVC pipe is to use a lathe, but since I didn’t have one I used my high-speed die grinder and a grinding stone. I made a jig and went to work.
I am not going to make any comments on observations at this time but the ISR pipe came out very well and fits perfectly. The main thing is that there must not be ANY air leaks at the connections.One other thing I want to interject at this time. For those of you thinking about installing headers and therefore having to cut the elbow on the cat of an ’01 or ’02 4Runner; a new cat will cost you over $600 if you should ever want to reverse the installation and go back to your OE manifolds. I bought a used '01 cat for $150 just in case I decide to install headers.
Also, do not discard your OE exhaust manifolds. 90% of the people who I have known who have sold cars have had problems if they did not have their OE manifolds. Well, that's it for now.
04-11-2003, 07:24 PM
#31
Contributing Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Wallingford, Ct
Posts: 1,594
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BTW, ManyMods, I haven't really noticed it pulling to the right at all. I'm not really happy with the ride though. My ultimate goal is to have a ride similar to an MDX from Acura. Thats another post though down the road. If you have any suggestions there, PM me.
Your Toyota is never going to ride like a MDX. Your Runner is a "truck". It has a full frame and will always ride like a truck. The MDX has a unibody. The frame is not connected through out the vehicle. This allows for flex in the body and it absorbs more of the road bumps. Simply, the MDX is built like a car, not like a truck. If you want your SUV to ride like a car, you should buy one that is built like a car.
04-11-2003, 10:19 PM
#32
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Lewisville, TX
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Noel,
I know it will never ride like that. They are completely different frame styles and I would never take an MDX off road. I love the versatility of the 4Runner. We had a huge ice storm in Dallas a couple months ago. The worst I've seen in the 10 years I've been here. I would have hated driving around with anything else. The traction control acted amazing.
Others,
To those of you who think this is PING, you are incorrect. This only occurs at WOT from a roll. This is more like a CLANK CLANK. I'm gonna dig out the old MD recorder and try and get a recording.
ManyMods,
Thanks for your following. Your tests are very interesting. If this internal part doesn't fix the problem, I'm going to try and find a 3rd gen muffler to bolt back on. I'll also try putting my elbow back in.
Nick
I know it will never ride like that. They are completely different frame styles and I would never take an MDX off road. I love the versatility of the 4Runner. We had a huge ice storm in Dallas a couple months ago. The worst I've seen in the 10 years I've been here. I would have hated driving around with anything else. The traction control acted amazing.
Others,
To those of you who think this is PING, you are incorrect. This only occurs at WOT from a roll. This is more like a CLANK CLANK. I'm gonna dig out the old MD recorder and try and get a recording.
ManyMods,
Thanks for your following. Your tests are very interesting. If this internal part doesn't fix the problem, I'm going to try and find a 3rd gen muffler to bolt back on. I'll also try putting my elbow back in.
Nick
04-12-2003, 07:54 AM
#33
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: San Diego
Posts: 229
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Manymods,
If you can't figure out how to post pics, e-mail them to me and I will post them for you.
The basic idea is to use a photo editing program (almost every camera's software package has one) and resize the image to the appropriate parameters for where you want to post them. Here at yotatech, they need to be 50kb or less and be a .jpg, .gif, etc.
Use the "browse" button at the bottom of the "reply" window to find your picture and that's about it.
Take it easy.
Mike
If you can't figure out how to post pics, e-mail them to me and I will post them for you.
The basic idea is to use a photo editing program (almost every camera's software package has one) and resize the image to the appropriate parameters for where you want to post them. Here at yotatech, they need to be 50kb or less and be a .jpg, .gif, etc.
Use the "browse" button at the bottom of the "reply" window to find your picture and that's about it.
Take it easy.
Mike
04-12-2003, 09:03 AM
#35
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Martha's Vineyard Island, MA
Posts: 840
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Well, I think it worked so here are two more pics of the ISR pipe.
I am trying to attach two pics but I don't think it is working yet.
They are a little distorted because I used a 640x480 dimension setting and then reduced the pixel size ... like I know what the heck I am doing here.
I am trying to attach two pics but I don't think it is working yet.
They are a little distorted because I used a 640x480 dimension setting and then reduced the pixel size ... like I know what the heck I am doing here.
04-12-2003, 09:02 PM
#36
Registered User
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Southern MD USA
Posts: 1,539
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by BlueTrane
Noel,
I know it will never ride like that. They are completely different frame styles and I would never take an MDX off road. I love the versatility of the 4Runner. We had a huge ice storm in Dallas a couple months ago. The worst I've seen in the 10 years I've been here. I would have hated driving around with anything else. The traction control acted amazing.
Others,
To those of you who think this is PING, you are incorrect. This only occurs at WOT from a roll. This is more like a CLANK CLANK. I'm gonna dig out the old MD recorder and try and get a recording.
ManyMods,
Thanks for your following. Your tests are very interesting. If this internal part doesn't fix the problem, I'm going to try and find a 3rd gen muffler to bolt back on. I'll also try putting my elbow back in.
Nick
Noel,
I know it will never ride like that. They are completely different frame styles and I would never take an MDX off road. I love the versatility of the 4Runner. We had a huge ice storm in Dallas a couple months ago. The worst I've seen in the 10 years I've been here. I would have hated driving around with anything else. The traction control acted amazing.
Others,
To those of you who think this is PING, you are incorrect. This only occurs at WOT from a roll. This is more like a CLANK CLANK. I'm gonna dig out the old MD recorder and try and get a recording.
ManyMods,
Thanks for your following. Your tests are very interesting. If this internal part doesn't fix the problem, I'm going to try and find a 3rd gen muffler to bolt back on. I'll also try putting my elbow back in.
Nick
Gadget
www.GadgetOnline.com
04-14-2003, 03:14 PM
#38
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Martha's Vineyard Island, MA
Posts: 840
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
I want to update on my popping sound ... in the engine compartment. In approximately 5 tries to duplicate the condition, I have not heard any popping sounds. The downshifts and performance have been excellent, but I want to give it a good test when I am off-Island next time at the end of the week. I will take zip ties with me just in case it happens again. 
04-29-2003, 07:33 PM
#39
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Lewisville, TX
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OK,
They didn't replace any internal parts, they replaced the whole supercharger. While installing, the tech noticed a few things. The other dealership failed to do the "Free FMU" mod. I told him that when I tried to do it myself my check engine light came on. He said that was because none of the other nipples were connected in the right spots either.
Great, so the other dealership who installed this for $450 potentially caused some damage to my engine. Also, they never installed some sort of 3-way valve that looks like it should be near the throttle body. I don't see it in any of the install pictures but I'll let you know exactly what it is when its done tomorrow. The part was ordered and will be installed tomorrow. This looks promising. Toyota of Dallas will be getting a nasty letter from me regardless.
Nick
They didn't replace any internal parts, they replaced the whole supercharger. While installing, the tech noticed a few things. The other dealership failed to do the "Free FMU" mod. I told him that when I tried to do it myself my check engine light came on. He said that was because none of the other nipples were connected in the right spots either.
Great, so the other dealership who installed this for $450 potentially caused some damage to my engine. Also, they never installed some sort of 3-way valve that looks like it should be near the throttle body. I don't see it in any of the install pictures but I'll let you know exactly what it is when its done tomorrow. The part was ordered and will be installed tomorrow. This looks promising. Toyota of Dallas will be getting a nasty letter from me regardless.
Nick
04-29-2003, 07:55 PM
#40
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Towson, MD
Posts: 524
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'd suggest you check all the vacuum lines yourself by downloading the install PDF from TRD's website. It might take you 10 minutes and it will give you some peace of mind. Also there aren't any 3-way valves. There are some "T"s that you may need and a one way valve that is installed beneath the TB in the air injection line, but according to Peter that 1-way valve is not needed on the 2002 models.
