Feeler: 3.4L TURBO manifold group buy? - Page 2

Weasy2k · 11-25-2005, 10:17 PM

please guys with Autos....

watch out for your tranny they will need a valve body upgrade! It Costs about 470usd without shipping....Contact John at IPT for more details
http://www.ipttrans.com/

Again Node has put alot of detail into the work he has done.

If anyone needs fuel injection for these turbo kits, i will be releasing a fuel injection upgrade kit in the near future as well

the 3vz-e does not have the capible fuel at all...as far as know stock injectors are already at 70-75% duty already...

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Gadget · 11-26-2005, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by node

If I put a kit together everything will be bolt on with the exception of the oil pan return. There is a possibility of using the tapped portion of the block where the other dipstick fitting goes as a return for the oil supply so that would be a simple plug and play thing too.. For the kit, I would do a wrightup and also a video much the same as I did for this V6 swap http://www.mr2board.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1467

As far a price goes, a full kit would be well less than a new TRD supercharger by itself. I cant be too exact because I dont know how many people are interested yet. I can tell you that I already have used Ct-26 - A turbos available for $250 +/- depending on mileage with fittings and wastegate actuators. My MR2 manifolds sell for around $350 but the truck version will require more materials and labor so expect a price just beyond $400 using some of your existing parts (again prices decrease with volume). The downpipes are roughly $200 and you will need to see an exhaust shop to have them fitted to your exhaust system. You should be able to keep the stock catylist system intact (I need to look closer at this though). Hoses, oil lines and fittings will likely cost at least another $200. So we could have a complete kit for around US $1200 give or take a hundred.

The system will be 100% compatible with the stock ECU both manual transmission and auto. I have tested the auto ECU to 8psi but would not go beyond that since the injectors cant really handle the flow requirements at 8 psi.

I have done a little bit of testing with fuel requirements and forced induction on the 5vz. Mostly with superchargers and now three turbo systems. I am absolutely certain that trying to fuel 8 PSI with a turbo on the stock injectors is very dangerous.

I have developed the ideal fuel system for a turbo 5vz. It is the URD 5vz Turbo Port Fueler. In short it is a high end 3d additional injector controller and a special plate made to hold 6 additional injectors and a MAF signal clamp.

So, if you build a turbo system for the 5vz we can help you properly fuel and tune it to any power level you can dream up.

Gadget

MTL_4runner · 11-26-2005, 08:38 AM

Gadget, what is your take on the best way to go about adding boost to the 5VZ. It seems like a turbo might be a relatively cheap solution to adding boost but it appears to require alot of extras (manifolds, oil porting, etc) and I am worried I still won't be getting the performance I am after as I mentioned in my post above.

Can you give a few more details (or links) about these turbo systems you did?
Performance? Issues? etc....

Mr Tibbs · 11-26-2005, 08:39 AM

I can't wait to see a price on all of this. A turbo from Node and fuel upgrades from Gadget, sounds like a great combo! BTW, I hope there will be a kit for the 4.0 in the future, this all looks very interesting. One little question, what exhaust mods will need to be done?

Weasy2k · 11-26-2005, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTL_4runner

Gadget, what is your take on the best way to go about adding boost to the 5VZ. It seems like a turbo might be a relatively cheap solution to adding boost but it appears to require alot of extras (manifolds, oil porting, etc) and I am worried I still won't be getting the performance I am after as I mentioned in my post above.

Can you give a few more details (or links) about these turbo systems you did?
Performance? Issues? etc....

A turbo will outpreform the regular TRD S/C any day! The ct26 is a relitivly cheap turbo and it last a VERY long time... A great thing is, that if you buy a ct26 kit from node you can go out and buy a adapter to go from a t3 to t3/t4 or a gt turbo anyday without having to buy new manifolds and such becuase th mr2 shares the same turbo and there is tons of adapters avalible for it.

Still in the end these turbos willbe able to get you enough power that will make you smile when punching it

At least you 4runner guys have weight in the rear....even with the s/c i cant keep the power down in my tacoma while on the highway....

DavidA · 11-26-2005, 10:12 AM

I am really impressed by the lost cost of a good t3/t4 hybrid turbo. I think the demand is here.

Gadget, what is the cost of the fuel upgrade kit?

node · 11-26-2005, 01:26 PM

Well in responce to a few questions:

The turbo would have a warrentee. Most likely for six months. The manifolds will probably be covered for a year (6mo for stainless). There will be two different options for the Toyota turbo. You can either have a small AR twin entry housing like the MR2 uses. That would have very fast spool even on the 3.0. Or you could install a larger single entry housing for higher power potential reccomended for the 3.4L.

Gadget: At 7 psi the 3.4L is on the edge of its injector flow capability but still safe IMHO. I do agree that 8psi is really pushing it. Consider though, I have run the 5VZ with 8 psi through an intercooler with the stock fuel system and had no issues. Keep in mind the cooler charge is more dense so it requires more fuel or less timing. I ran the twin turbo 3.4L like that for many months. The internals are still in tip top condition even after EXTREME abuse of road raceing etc..

For those of you with the 3.0, you should heed Gadget's advice. A fuel upgrade will be required. From what Toysrme has told me though, the stock AFM adjustment can be used to lean out some very big injectors. So, that upgrade should be fairly inexpensive.

The exhaust will exit on the same side of the engine so a good muffler shop should be able to couple the downpipe to the existing system. I dont think I will persue CARB Certification for a kit, its just not worth the trouble. In most states its perfectly legal to add a turbo as long as the stock catylitic system stays in place.

DavidA · 11-26-2005, 10:01 PM

I take it that you would recommend a larger diameter exhaust to go with the increased output velocity of gases. Maybe to a 3" exhaust from a 2 1/4"

Please understand I am learning.

Thanks!

marko3xl3 · 11-26-2005, 10:11 PM

3" would be too much. You'd only want to go to 2.5". With 3" you wouldn't have any backpressure which would kill your "UMPH" and it is questionable if your high end would remain stable either.

About the thread...in the end I might be interested, but it's still a great amount of money. I believe that the demand is here and that you guys should go ahead with this to open up a new chaper in 5VZFE modification

984RNR · 11-27-2005, 12:22 AM

Newb Question, How many miles is too many to add Forced Induction. The 98 has 175k on the clock and still runs great but i have a feeling that is a bit too much to handle boost

Weasy2k · 11-27-2005, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marko3xl3

3" would be too much. You'd only want to go to 2.5". With 3" you wouldn't have any backpressure which would kill your "UMPH" and it is questionable if your high end would remain stable either.

About the thread...in the end I might be interested, but it's still a great amount of money. I believe that the demand is here and that you guys should go ahead with this to open up a new chaper in 5VZFE modification

New chapter is already being opened. The 5vz is starting to become a very popular engine out there.

With cams and valve springs in devleopment there should be alot ot get in the near future!

node · 11-27-2005, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weasy2k

New chapter is already being opened. The 5vz is starting to become a very popular engine out there.

With cams and valve springs in devleopment there should be alot ot get in the near future!

Yup, I just heard from another MR2 guy swapping a 5VZ in. andThe tuner options for this engine are about to explode. I will be offering reground cams etc as soon as the demand gets strong enough. I have a set for my motor but they arent installed yet since I need to order my new buckets

Lets NOT turn this thread into a "backpressure is good" debate! With a turbo, the less restriction there is in the exhaust after the turbine the better. Lets just leave it at that. You can still use the majority of the stock exhaust system but I do reccomend that you upgrade it. For you 3.0 guys that stuff is 10+ years old and is probably starting to rust anyway so why not?

The ultimate goal of this system will be more power than the TRD supercharger at less than half the cost. Since the 3.0 will need bigger injectors, I may do a core exchange with the AFM. I could send back a recalibrated unit with upgraded injectors. I still need to find an inexpensive source for new fuel injectors though.

DavidA · 11-27-2005, 10:22 AM

Node,
You could turn your hobby into a full time business here you know?

node · 11-27-2005, 11:36 AM

David,

I will eventually, right now I have 17 credit hrs remaining before I complete my second degree so im working my ass of on that. The automotive work that I have been doing (swaps, fabrication, etc) has been only on the weekends and at night. Im looking forward to spending more time on this kind of stuff though

node · 11-27-2005, 01:13 PM

Gadget, maybe you could help us out with some more info about new injectors or fuel control components for the 3.0.

max · 11-27-2005, 05:16 PM

Interested, but as you know and we have learned here the turbo is the easy part. It's the fuel / ecu management that is the 'issue'

William439 · 11-27-2005, 07:21 PM

I am def. interested in what you can come up with.

Keggo · 11-28-2005, 12:31 PM

You guys that are getting this, you can't really compare a turbo to a supercharger... sure they do ALMOST the same thing... but you if you're offroading, you don't want to rev the engine super high to get the turbo spooling. That's why superchargers are a popular option because it offers low end power and torque. I do think this is really awesome... and with Gadget helping out... the turbo set up will seem stock!! AWESOME!

DavidA · 11-28-2005, 12:56 PM

I see it as a dual solution.

Superchargers for off-roaders.
Turbos for us with 2WD street queens.

The supercharger was a bit over the top for me, but if I can get a turbo for just above half of a SC then I would be very happy. Plus...there is nothing like the sound of a spooling turbo to my ears.

My ex took the '99 4WD with the divorce, GRRRRRR! Like she will ever take it offroad. So I went and got a traveling machine for myself and the kids. I love it.

Ric · 11-28-2005, 01:01 PM

im looking at this as a means to get up the mountains passes easier, not for off-roading, i think the 3.4L has enough power for that, or i havent needed any more power yet. im still waiting to see what the ballpark price is going to be, and everything ill need.

HUTCHSTACO · 11-28-2005, 01:52 PM

if the price were good and aaround half of a s/c i would be very interested

AK95Taco · 11-28-2005, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 984RNR

Newb Question, How many miles is too many to add Forced Induction. The 98 has 175k on the clock and still runs great but i have a feeling that is a bit too much to handle boost

If you have been even remotely nice to your motor (i.e. oil changes and not 5k shifts every day) then a 5fz is good to AT LEAST 300k. I didn't even hesitate to put one won with 196k on the od.

I had the oportunity to take a lok at some bearings on a 5fz (junkyard motor making sure it hadn't ran upside down). It had about 160k on it and the bearings looked new! I couldn't beileve how beefy the bottom end of these things are.

There are a couple of guys on TTORA and customtacos pushing 100k SINCE S/Cing and lots with over 200k total miles that are S/C'd. In short as long as you take care of the lean out ping issues (a la Gadget) I wouldn't hesitate to put boost to a 5fz with 175k.

tc · 11-28-2005, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keggo

You guys that are getting this, you can't really compare a turbo to a supercharger... sure they do ALMOST the same thing... but you if you're offroading, you don't want to rev the engine super high to get the turbo spooling. That's why superchargers are a popular option because it offers low end power and torque. I do think this is really awesome... and with Gadget helping out... the turbo set up will seem stock!! AWESOME!

They don't do ALMOST the same thing - they do EXACTLY the same thing - stuff more air into the cylinder so you can burn more fuel, thereby making more power. Turbo charging is technically turbosupercharging. The ONLY difference is how the compressor is driven. With a turbo, it is driven off the exhaust gas, with a supercharger it is driven by a belt or chain.

The turbos node are talking about will spool up pretty quick - if you are in 4LO, there will be plenty of RPM to be on the boost. Also, another trick is to just blip the gas to get the turbo spinning, and then go.

It should be noted that supercharging (including turbos) do a magnificient job of flattening the torque curve. With either setup, you will have a lot more oomph lower in the RPM range.

garrett1478 · 11-28-2005, 04:56 PM

out of curiosity, would it be possible to use a turbo in conjunction with a snorkel?

Weasy2k · 11-28-2005, 06:29 PM

yes you can use the turbo in conjunction with a snorkel...give it enough breathing tho....larger opening the happier...

I am also one of those guys who put a s/c running at 10psi when the engine turned 200k km...its now at 246k km and still going strong...infact i think its getting faster....

And only more being added

Node one thing i would liek totake a look of is the 3vz-e's fuel rail...if its like the rest of the V6's then its beefy but would be safe to check. Prob talk to toysrme on that one

The Injectors should all be the same...just dont turbo without larger injectors and a good condition head gasket

11-26-2005, 08:38 AM	#28 (permalink)
MTL_4runner Contributing Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Montreal, QC Canada Posts: 8,807	Gadget, what is your take on the best way to go about adding boost to the 5VZ. It seems like a turbo might be a relatively cheap solution to adding boost but it appears to require alot of extras (manifolds, oil porting, etc) and I am worried I still won't be getting the performance I am after as I mentioned in my post above. Can you give a few more details (or links) about these turbo systems you did? Performance? Issues? etc.... __________________ - Jamie 1996 4Runner SR5 4X4 Auto Deckplate Mod, Hayden Tranny Cooler, Amsoil Air Filter, OME 881/906 N86C/N91SC Lift Best OBD II scan tool I have used!. .....and I am AMERICAN!

11-26-2005, 08:39 AM	#29 (permalink)
Mr Tibbs Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Mona, Utah Posts: 121	I can't wait to see a price on all of this. A turbo from Node and fuel upgrades from Gadget, sounds like a great combo! BTW, I hope there will be a kit for the 4.0 in the future, this all looks very interesting. One little question, what exhaust mods will need to be done? __________________ 1997 Toyota 4Runner Limited 4X4

11-26-2005, 10:12 AM	#31 (permalink)
DavidA Contributing Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 919	I am really impressed by the lost cost of a good t3/t4 hybrid turbo. I think the demand is here. Gadget, what is the cost of the fuel upgrade kit? __________________ 2002 Stellar Blue 4Runner Sport Edition Cold Air Intake Magnaflow Exhaust Iridium Sparkplugs Kenwood KDC-MP628 Blaupunkt Separates in all of the doors Two RF P2002 amps Kenwood 12" Subwoofer My baby: Pics

11-26-2005, 01:26 PM	#32 (permalink)
node Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Blue Ridge Mountains NC Posts: 177	Well in responce to a few questions: The turbo would have a warrentee. Most likely for six months. The manifolds will probably be covered for a year (6mo for stainless). There will be two different options for the Toyota turbo. You can either have a small AR twin entry housing like the MR2 uses. That would have very fast spool even on the 3.0. Or you could install a larger single entry housing for higher power potential reccomended for the 3.4L. Gadget: At 7 psi the 3.4L is on the edge of its injector flow capability but still safe IMHO. I do agree that 8psi is really pushing it. Consider though, I have run the 5VZ with 8 psi through an intercooler with the stock fuel system and had no issues. Keep in mind the cooler charge is more dense so it requires more fuel or less timing. I ran the twin turbo 3.4L like that for many months. The internals are still in tip top condition even after EXTREME abuse of road raceing etc.. For those of you with the 3.0, you should heed Gadget's advice. A fuel upgrade will be required. From what Toysrme has told me though, the stock AFM adjustment can be used to lean out some very big injectors. So, that upgrade should be fairly inexpensive. The exhaust will exit on the same side of the engine so a good muffler shop should be able to couple the downpipe to the existing system. I dont think I will persue CARB Certification for a kit, its just not worth the trouble. In most states its perfectly legal to add a turbo as long as the stock catylitic system stays in place. __________________ Building back yard supercars since 2003 . Current Projects: 3.4L Turbo V6 4runner 3.4L Turbo V6 TRD2000 MR2 3.4L Turbo V6 Sleeper MR2 2.5L RB25 Powered S13 Nissan 4.0L 1UZ-FE V8 MR2 axelsnapper Last edited by node; 11-26-2005 at 01:28 PM.

11-26-2005, 10:01 PM	#33 (permalink)
DavidA Contributing Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 919	I take it that you would recommend a larger diameter exhaust to go with the increased output velocity of gases. Maybe to a 3" exhaust from a 2 1/4" Please understand I am learning. Thanks! __________________ 2002 Stellar Blue 4Runner Sport Edition Cold Air Intake Magnaflow Exhaust Iridium Sparkplugs Kenwood KDC-MP628 Blaupunkt Separates in all of the doors Two RF P2002 amps Kenwood 12" Subwoofer My baby: Pics

11-26-2005, 10:11 PM	#34 (permalink)
marko3xl3 Contributing Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,709	3" would be too much. You'd only want to go to 2.5". With 3" you wouldn't have any backpressure which would kill your "UMPH" and it is questionable if your high end would remain stable either. About the thread...in the end I might be interested, but it's still a great amount of money. I believe that the demand is here and that you guys should go ahead with this to open up a new chaper in 5VZFE modification __________________ :Marko: Supercharged 98 4Runner SR5 4x4 3.4L 4" Deckplate :: TrueFlow Air Intake System :: Magnaflow 18" Muffler w/ Resonator XM Satellite Radio (Roady 2) :: Autometer Boost Gauge :: Color Keyed Spoiler TOYOTA\|moving forward

11-27-2005, 12:22 AM	#35 (permalink)
984RNR Registered User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 96	Newb Question, How many miles is too many to add Forced Induction. The 98 has 175k on the clock and still runs great but i have a feeling that is a bit too much to handle boost

11-27-2005, 10:22 AM	#38 (permalink)
DavidA Contributing Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 919	Node, You could turn your hobby into a full time business here you know? __________________ 2002 Stellar Blue 4Runner Sport Edition Cold Air Intake Magnaflow Exhaust Iridium Sparkplugs Kenwood KDC-MP628 Blaupunkt Separates in all of the doors Two RF P2002 amps Kenwood 12" Subwoofer My baby: Pics

11-27-2005, 11:36 AM	#39 (permalink)
node Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Blue Ridge Mountains NC Posts: 177	David, I will eventually, right now I have 17 credit hrs remaining before I complete my second degree so im working my ass of on that. The automotive work that I have been doing (swaps, fabrication, etc) has been only on the weekends and at night. Im looking forward to spending more time on this kind of stuff though __________________ Building back yard supercars since 2003 . Current Projects: 3.4L Turbo V6 4runner 3.4L Turbo V6 TRD2000 MR2 3.4L Turbo V6 Sleeper MR2 2.5L RB25 Powered S13 Nissan 4.0L 1UZ-FE V8 MR2 axelsnapper

11-27-2005, 01:13 PM	#40 (permalink)
node Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Blue Ridge Mountains NC Posts: 177	Gadget, maybe you could help us out with some more info about new injectors or fuel control components for the 3.0. __________________ Building back yard supercars since 2003 . Current Projects: 3.4L Turbo V6 4runner 3.4L Turbo V6 TRD2000 MR2 3.4L Turbo V6 Sleeper MR2 2.5L RB25 Powered S13 Nissan 4.0L 1UZ-FE V8 MR2 axelsnapper

11-27-2005, 05:16 PM	#41 (permalink)
max Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Newark, DE Posts: 40	Interested, but as you know and we have learned here the turbo is the easy part. It's the fuel / ecu management that is the 'issue'

11-27-2005, 07:21 PM	#42 (permalink)
William439 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Starkville, Mississippi Posts: 27	I am def. interested in what you can come up with.

11-28-2005, 12:31 PM	#43 (permalink)
Keggo Contributing Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bakersfield, CA Posts: 1,831	You guys that are getting this, you can't really compare a turbo to a supercharger... sure they do ALMOST the same thing... but you if you're offroading, you don't want to rev the engine super high to get the turbo spooling. That's why superchargers are a popular option because it offers low end power and torque. I do think this is really awesome... and with Gadget helping out... the turbo set up will seem stock!! AWESOME! __________________ - Kevin E. G. SOLD!!! '91 4Runner SR5 V6 5spd: CLICK!! FOR SALE NOW! Proud dad of Kai E. G.! Last edited by Keggo; 11-28-2005 at 12:34 PM.

11-28-2005, 12:56 PM	#44 (permalink)
DavidA Contributing Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 919	I see it as a dual solution. Superchargers for off-roaders. Turbos for us with 2WD street queens. The supercharger was a bit over the top for me, but if I can get a turbo for just above half of a SC then I would be very happy. Plus...there is nothing like the sound of a spooling turbo to my ears. My ex took the '99 4WD with the divorce, GRRRRRR! Like she will ever take it offroad. So I went and got a traveling machine for myself and the kids. I love it. __________________ 2002 Stellar Blue 4Runner Sport Edition Cold Air Intake Magnaflow Exhaust Iridium Sparkplugs Kenwood KDC-MP628 Blaupunkt Separates in all of the doors Two RF P2002 amps Kenwood 12" Subwoofer My baby: Pics

11-28-2005, 01:01 PM	#45 (permalink)
Ric Banned - User requested Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: earth Posts: 4,494	im looking at this as a means to get up the mountains passes easier, not for off-roading, i think the 3.4L has enough power for that, or i havent needed any more power yet. im still waiting to see what the ballpark price is going to be, and everything ill need.

11-28-2005, 01:52 PM	#46 (permalink)
HUTCHSTACO Contributing Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bellevue, Washington Posts: 1,044	if the price were good and aaround half of a s/c i would be very interested

11-28-2005, 04:56 PM	#49 (permalink)
garrett1478 Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 0	out of curiosity, would it be possible to use a turbo in conjunction with a snorkel?

11-28-2005, 06:29 PM	#50 (permalink)
Weasy2k Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 968	yes you can use the turbo in conjunction with a snorkel...give it enough breathing tho....larger opening the happier... I am also one of those guys who put a s/c running at 10psi when the engine turned 200k km...its now at 246k km and still going strong...infact i think its getting faster.... And only more being added Node one thing i would liek totake a look of is the 3vz-e's fuel rail...if its like the rest of the V6's then its beefy but would be safe to check. Prob talk to toysrme on that one The Injectors should all be the same...just dont turbo without larger injectors and a good condition head gasket __________________ -Johnny --------------------------------- '96 Taco V6 4WD Auto with 262 S2S Cams New 5VZ-FE & 3VZ-E Cams available 5vz-fe Stock CR FI Pistons NOW available! www.sea2skytuning.com Plug and Play EMS! Perfect Power, Hydra EMS, Arias, Pauter, Manley Performance Dealer.... Last edited by Weasy2k; 11-28-2005 at 06:31 PM.

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