hross14

YEAH--Mythbuster--thats fargin genuis

Godzilla

What someone should do is actually revisit this on a dyno for multiple runs, keeping the trials seperate enough it time to ensure the computer has "re-learned" the change.
I think there is nothing wrong with DD's approach and his assumption. His assumption is simply that if more air was needed, a vacuum would be seen. By putting it in the airbox it is based soley on the presence of available air and negates any effect created by an additional variable such as the filter. Can he take test from other areas...sure he can. But this is at least a start and a contribution to known data since the last and only dyno results done many years ago.
It adds more than someone just making a thread saying, "it works and I can feel it!"
Hell, think of how many people have "claimed" gains from a damn throttle body spacer of all things.
In regards to mpg. With all these people tracking the mpg, why is there not a sheet at least attached with valid recorded numbers.
This is a common topic and it goes back and forth since neither side has that much evidence.
I havent bothered with the deckplate since nothing has convinced me to do so, and if I really wanted extra air in the airbox then I would just simply drive with the airbox lid open....oh but wait..then I wouldnt get any ram air effect. ha.
Without more data, its nothing but a pissing contest. And instead of bitching about someone testing a certain facet that you may not agree with, at least contribute to the idea as techno did to try the test again at different areas and rpms.

Godzilla

Driver;
Do you have any links to these by chance? I have really only ever seen gadgets old data.

techno

My data is in an Excel spreadsheet (.xls) and I can't figure out how to attach that kind of file.
Any suggestion? I'll happily post it if I can.

DailyDrive

No, those measurements would be completely irrelevant to this discussion.

p.s. I suggest you call Toyota immediately. They are spending tens of millions on research to improve fuel efficiency, and I'm sure you would be rewarded quite handsomely for increasing efficiency by some 5%-7% with just $2 in plastic parts.

aviator

Lets keep it friendly people.
One of the problems with a non-gov't/mfg. trying to come up with a truly useful set of MPG or dyno run tests is the differences in fuel quality and chemistry [additive pkgs] not only around the country but even filling station to filling station and the differences in driving style from person to person.
To get a reliable result it would take a university lab monitored study... perhaps one of our college/university members would like to propose such a study to their faculty adviser/professor as a useful group/class project. This project might also be proposed as a senior HS science class project as well but there may be legal/ins. issues for an HS level program.
It could/should include 22RE, 3.0 and 3.4 engined vehicles if possible to cover the widest group usually employing this mod. (the 2.7 and 22re are so similar that any difference would be negligible at best.

CRafferty

Pertaining to the ISR argument, I think the statement that "why would Toyota put those reducers there if they hurt airflow?" is pointless. You see in the name that it's a sound reduction/baffler piece. As stated above, it was to keep the sucking noise down so people wouldn't get that "ram air" sound. I personally can't hear it much over my exhaust and the engine noise, but if I pop the hood and rev it I can. It was a best of two evils situation, they chose quiet over better response. You can debate the hp rating side of the ISR, but you cannot fight the better response that you get off the throttle.

techno

Relax, I'm not arguing, I'm trying to have a discussion.

I fully understand where you are coming from on this and I'm impressed that you have attempted to delve deeper into this thing than most others. Unfortunately, you're method is not 'scientific' as you are claiming. As you vaguely described it in your 1st post, it is basic at best. It is easy to get 0 vacuum anywhere in an intake system. As soon as you achieve WOT you will have it. Air mass is the variable in an engine and the ECU calculates the amount of fuel required based on the air mass available. The vacuum gauge measures pressure differences, not absolute pressure and it is absolute pressure that is needed for air mass calculations.

98SR54RUNNER

iTrader: (1)

When I did the deckplate/ISR mod and installed a TrueFlow air filter I noticed much better throttle response and what seemed like increased horsepower. This was obviously the butt dyno, but I don't think it was only placebo.

waskillywabbit

iTrader: (-1)

Please discuss with civility, without condescension and name calling.

Next violator is gonna get their deck plate hammered shut.

My scientific opinion is that it is a pointless mod that puts a perfectly good hole in a good airbox.

Parker Runner

By saying the deckplate mod is useless and the ISR, one is also stating that the numerous aftermarket companies selling intakes are selling-in essence snake oil. Not saying that aftermarket parts are snake oil, but it should be pointed out that Air raid ETC are fleecing people by the assumption.

It should also be pointed out that some of us may be performing deferred maintenance at the time of installation. I myself cleaned the MAF and throttle body intake during installation. So, this could also be affecting "felt" performance.

It should also be pointed out that some muscle cars that I have seen-factory, have a very large intake. Much larger than "non" muscle cars. This may be marketing, this may be not.

It seems to me the best way to solve this mathmatically is to do the following: Intake Manifold volume + Piston Bore air volume X number of pistons X 2000 RPMS=total possible volume requirement .

Also, take into account different elevation and barometric pressures. Assume an air temperature of 75 degrees F.

Then take the stock intake volume and determine if the requirements are adequate.

Now, I am neither an engineer nor top flight mechanic. Just some dude bench racing on the internet. But this might be a place to start.

TC4RNR

Deckplate: 6 dollars
ISR: 0 dollar(a muffler shop guy did it for me for free out of a 6" of 2.5 pipe, just for s and giggles)
Works or Not: Who cars
The growling sound the motor makes: Priceless!

Can someone record the engine before and after and post it up?

Parker Runner

Just record your average working stiff sedan-that is the before sound.

The after sounds like a V6 on steroids.

BigBallsMcFalls

no, those things do affect performance as they change what the ecu senses and adjusts for.

deckplate mod doesn't do anything but make noise

you need to go full boat: intake, injectors, exhaust, ecu chip programming
to make any real difference


the stock airbox is designed for ease of use, capacity, and noise reduction. and the ecu is programmed exactly to all the stock bits. changing one thing doesn't do jack

Parker Runner

Hmm, so performing maintenance on these items-if they were coated with crap, doesn't change performance? That is pretty interesting.

So, you have done the mods and found no difference? Or, is the poster simply surmising they don't work based on the poster's assumptions?

okie81

^^Haha, that's exactly how I got mine too TC4RNR.

If anything, I guess it makes the engine compartment a little less cluttered.

DailyDrive

What does the simplicity of the test have to do with being 'scientific'? Putting an apple on a scale and stating that it weights 1 pound isn't scientific? Sure it is.

Here is a link for you in fact:
http://dictionary.reference.com/dic?...&search=search

This is false. Get a $5 pressure gauge from PepBoys, and you will be pleasantly surprised to find a fairly large vacuum after the air filter.

In fact, it is backwards too, the vacuum after the filter will be close to 0 at idle, and rise exponentially as the RPMs go up.

techno

I think you are missing my point.

Firstly, the question is about performance and fuel efficiency. Air MASS is the variable that will dictate any changes in these. Air PRESSURE differences, which is what the vacuum gauge reads, is not a factor in air mass values. Pressure yes, pressure differences no.
Your vacuum values taken where they were are all well and good, and what you saying is correct, but they are not an influencing measurement for the question.

Secondly, I am saying that the vacuum gauge will provide more valuable information by having it located at the intake manifold, which is where they are always located on engines. In this location the gauge indicates high vacuum at idle, and rapidly drops to zero vacuum when the throttle is opened (meaning that there is now atmospheric pressure in the intake). By observing the behavior of the gauge more than anything, you can learn a lot about whats happening. I had a vacuum gauge permanently installed on my previous car for 10 years and found it to be a very valuable tool.

DailyDrive

Ok. More air, more fuel, more power. Good so far.

That's like saying weight is not related to mass.

That doesn't make sense at all.

The question was: does a deskplate improve air flow prior to the engine air filter.

The only data point that is relevant here is the vacuum before the air filter. What happens after the air filter is completely irrelevant. There could be squirrels living in the intake manifold, it doesn't matter, as the part of the intake that is being tested is between atmospheric and air filter.

X-AWDriver

Unless you add a significant amount more air (SC or turbo) there's nothing bigger injectors will do and even chip programming on a 3.4 w/o forced induction won't do squat.

Intake and exhaust is only going to net you maybe 10-12whp and that's on the high side.