sdstud212001

Okay so let me say that I have in fact searched, but I really want to make sure that I am in fact having a problem before I spend $$ on things that are not broken.

While working with the father-in-law the other day on the Tundra brake swap he convinced me that it was okay to pedal bleed the brakes. I figured since he had done this before so it was okay. Well everything seemed okay, all fluid pumped/ no air so I thought we were good. Well when I went to seat the new pads I noticed that the pedal could be pushed ALL the way to the floor. I can't recall if it had always been like this. Let me say that the 4Runner does in fact stop and I can stop from 60+. The brakes can be applied with little pedal travel, however I can press them ALL the way down!

So I decided to search the forum and I found some info on a DIY air presssure power bleeder, I did this and the thing is when I do the rear right it goes soild/ no air but then it gets tiny bubbles, alot of them. I thought they were from the threads letting in some air, so I just moved on.

The brakes work but I'm still able to push the pedal to the floor if I try. An when I do I hear some kind of pump kick on.

So my questions are

Should I be able to push the pedal to the floor?
Does it matter as the 4Runner still stops?
Did I ruin the Master Cylinder by doing a pedal bleed?

Oh yeah it's a 2001 4runner

Please chime in!

User 051420

No, it shouldn't go to the floor.

I had the same problem when I did my real axle seals.

I ended up picking up a one man bleeder thing. Sorta like a one way valve with a catch can. Did all four brakes again, and now it's perfect.

sdstud212001

How did you bleed it the first time?

I did a 1 man power bleeder the 2nd time and like I said 1 wheel kept getting super tiny bubles I thought they were conning in from the threads so I moved on, and the fact that I used 1/2 gallon of fluid.

User 051420

The first time, I just did a two person method of opening the screw and then pumping the brakes.

After that, I got one of these from Autozone:


One thing that's obviously important is to keep the master cylinder FULL when bleeding. I'm not sure about the 01 master cylinder with VSC, but the 97 is pretty tiny and doesn't hold much fluid.

Good luck.


OH, one more thing. I've found that it works best to just barely crack open the bleeder screw, don't open it too much.

Edit: You probably know all of this, but hey...it took me a few tries to get it right!

midiwall

One thing to keep in mind is that when you close the bleeder screw, you should have the pedal held in. If you don't, you can suck air back in on the upstroke.

yota_krazy

Also if your rig has higher mileage, sometimes little bits of debris form on the inside of your M/C where the piston doesnt usually travel, such as pushing the pedal all the way to the floor. It is possible that by pressing the pedal to the floor that the inner seals of your M/C now have small cuts in them which can cause the same problem, I've seen it done before.

But before you go replacing the M/C try bleeding the system a few more times. Good luck!

CJM

Your lines could have tiny, tiny holes in them, thats entirely possible as well..

Did you bleed all the brakes, the load sensing valve in the rear and the master cylinder?

rimpainter.com

He has an 01 Limited, which means ABS, which means no LSPV to worry about. I am going to have to go with Yota Krazy on this one...at least that's what I would try first. Always put a block of wood under the brake pedal when pedal bleeding.

sdstud212001

Right, I found that out after the pedal meathod. How can I know for sure that I have/have not done this. I will bleed the lines a few more times just to make sure. If it does not help and I have to replace the MC how much of it do I need to buy (parts or the whole thing).

Thanks again for the help guys

CJM

Your sure of that? I have ABS on my 96 T100 and I still have that little valve..

rimpainter.com

I should clarified: in regards to the 4Runner.

rimpainter.com

I have rebuilt a MC before and it was kind of a pain, especially when you get can a whole new one for just a bit more. I say spring for the new MC if you get to that point.

yota_krazy

i agree, new m/c's arent terribly expensive. when you install it though, make sure you do a good job bench bleeding it! good luck!

sdstud212001

I just went to toyota and They said it was $1900 and that's just the MC. On a good note I saw some fluid under my truck and on the wheel, hope that's the cause.

BruceTS

If your brakes worked just fine before, then I doubt your MC is bad, most likely there's still air in the system......

Toyota Techs don't know chit, all they know how to do is replace parts, not fix the problem, they need to learn how to properly troubleshoot...

midiwall

Ditto on figuring that it's NOT the MC.

Umm, sounds like you didn't get a bleeder closed all the way - or (hopefully not!) you over tightened it and stripped it.

BE CAREFUL DRIVING until you find out where the brake fluid is coming from and fix it!

I once blew a hole in a hardline while I was on the freeway at about 70mph. I drove the last 10 miles to Funrunner's house using the E-brake.

NOT fun.

CJM

Thats ok, as similar as the trucks can be they aint the same.

sdstud212001

well still been too cold to crawl around and bleed all the lines but I did find the screw that was 1/8 or so loose. No mare leaks and the pedal is WAY more responsive. I hope to be able to bleed the lines later when the sun comes out. So things are looking good for now.


As far as Toyota, the techs here do suck, they basiclly said they would re-bleed lines and then if needed start replacing things until problem is solved. What a bunch of crap, I won't get taken advantage of because I'm not that type of person, but when I think of all those people who are I'm amazed. I think Toyota repair techs are wack!

midiwall

fwiw, time is money. A good tech will try his best to replace things in the order of the most probable to least probable culprit, but each time that they replace something (broken or not) that's money out of your wallet for time AND materials.

ALL commercial shops work like this, Toyota, Ford, GM, etc. If the tech works on your rig, YOU are on the clock. If he replaces something that ends up not broken, that new piece will remain in your rig and you'll be billed for it.

Many times shops will cap the labor rates based on a national average, so "Diagnose mushy brakes" may cap at 5 hours labor, but that's still $500 in LABOR alone, not to mention the tech replacing the MC, maybe a caliper, then a hardline only to end up finding a pin leak in a hardline on a different wheel.

What you're hoping for in finding a "good" tech is one that won't charge you for his/her diagnostic time, only for the time spent in replacing parts. Then, you're looking for someone with enough experience and/or forethought that they'll find that bleeder being before they replace a caliper 'cause it looks like it has brake fluid on it.

Something else - in a commercial dealership, the tech is NOT responsible for making the call on what gets replaced. In fact, many times a tech will get reprimanded if they do diagnostic work that isn't "spec'd". The guy you're looking for is the "Service Advisor", they're the ones that are on the front lines dealing with people coming in saying "my brakes are mushy". They're supposed to personally spend the time figuring out what's wrong, and/or getting a tech involved to open up the car and look around. BUT again, time is money. If the SA grabs a tech to spend an hour looking at your car before checking it in, then that's a hour's worth of service income that's pulled from the dealer's pocket.


Remember that the dealer is in it to make money, and the biggest money maker is the service department.

86SR522REEFI

Thanks for the love guys, show me some proof that toyota techs dont know anything. At my shop we look at every angle of the problem and if we cant find anything wrong then well start replacing parts. Rarely and i mean rarely do we get a car that we just guess and replace, sometimes thats how it has to be. Id appreciate it if you guys wouldnt put down every other toyota dealer just because your dealership stinks, hell it could even be a service writer that has no clue what their talking about. We have a couple of those. But come on guys.