rondo221

Sweet sliders..

Robinhood150

Yeah, I'd think they mean the bottom.

calg3

Nice sliders! Can't wait to see pictures of them on your 4Runner. Can you reveal the price?

PoBoy

Nice sliders! So you gonna come out and wheel with us?? or are you not in the Lou anymore?

weldpro

I thought I would inject my .02 here.

First off I think "tack" welding them is not a bright idea for this reason. If you only put a "tack" on them (especially on the bottom-where it makes the most sence) junk/road grime/mud/ etc will get trapped between that plate , and the frame. Also since they would be "tacked" the frame & slider in that area would have to be free of paint , and there would be no way to paint behind the plate(ie stop rust).
I also dislike in a huge way using self tapping bolts. The proper way is with out question using the through frame sleeve method using normal nuts & bolts.
One other thing is that on the mounting plates when put up against the frame how close is the bottom of the lowest hole to the bottom of the frame? If it is closer than 1" inch this could lead to a crack in the near future.
I hope that I am not discouraging you here as I am really just trying to help. I see "improper" everything when it comes to welding/fabrication , and it is especially rampent in the 4x4 world. I had posted before on a slider topic about how there are "standards" to frame modifications , they can be had by going to the manufacturer , and requesting them. The businesses that normally do this would be 5th wheel hitch manufacturers , flat bed builders , special service box companies etc.
Those are really nice sliders though! Clean design. To bad Kongs isn't around anymore as I had bought some of their high steer arms , and could not be any happier.
Richard S.

44Runner

I would think most people weld them on because is is easier and WAY better. I wouldn't trust bolt on sliders. I know mine aren't doing anywhere and that is how I like it.

bobzemuda

What do you mean by through the frame sleeve?

Drilling through both sides of the frame, and bolting the sliders all the way through the two sides?

I've not decided how I'm going to attach these as of yet, and will probably sit on it for another week before I do. I only have a carport to work in, and it's raining, and the idea of doing it at night in the rain isn't appealing to me. Really, doing it at night isn't appealing to me as I only get one shot.

Bill

bobzemuda

Oh, and in response to two of the other question.

1. Yes, I'm still in St. Louis and will go wheeling with whomever.
2. About $425 as I recall shipped (I'd have to look at the credit card statement). Probably a bit too much, but these sliders were one of the first things I saw on Yotatech, and I really like the design/look of them. Having them in hand now, they're of tremendous quality, and they came powdercoated, so I'm sure I'll get over the cost in no time.

weldpro

You are partially correct! Yes you drill through the frame on both sides however you the weld in a sleeve (ID the same as the bolt) for each , and every hole. This is a very time consuming task even for the pros however it is a safe way to do the job correctly. The point is to NOT be able to crush the frame when the bolts are tightened or when the slider get a load.
There is another posibility I will try to explain. Same idea as above EXCEPT no welding. Now drill the outside frame rail the same OD as the sleeve , and the inner frame rail the same diameter as the bolt. Slide the bolt , and sleeve in together through the outside rail. No only the bolt should protrude through the inner rail , and viola same concept different style.
Now the no welding was not my idea rather a customer from this board *I think*. It seems as though this would be a excellent comprimise to fully welding the sleeves. I see no reason why this would not be acceptable with exception to making sure htat the bolt/sleeve holes are ATLEAST 1" from the bottom of the hole to the bottom of the frame.
Note* I still endorse only welding , and welding sleeves in(bolt on only) as the proper method for attachment. The customers' method is unproven by me so I cannot whole heartedly recommend it over afformentioned methods of attachment. I can say that the cstomers method would be a definate step in the right direction over using sheet metal screws (which again I am totally against). Hope this helps.
Richard S.

bobzemuda

So, in your opinion, the "best" thing to do, would be to remove the powdercoat on the mounting plates, and weld the plates to the frame?

Bill

LarsDennert

I bolted mine on with self tapers and it works fine but I also made a provision to do a bolt through if needed. I haven't had to because the pinch weld really does do most of the work. Make sure to leave a gap so you don't get an awful rattle though. A right angle drill and short 5/16? bit sure make it easier.

www.larsdennert.com/4runner/sliders

44Runner

The only correct way to "bolt on" sliders is to drill the holes all the way through the frame and then weld in sleeves that the bolts will go through. Just like is done on steering boxes. That way you can torque the crap out of the bolts with no ill effects like squashing the frame and you don't have to worry about them ripping out. I would trust this method, but for the time it takes to do it and do it right, I'd much rather just weld them on.

weldpro

Far , and away having tham bolt on with sleeves through the frame would be the most ideal-----however I wont even take that much time to do that for myself (little gain for all that time) , and I could easily enough. I have also talked many customers out of this purely for fiscal reasons.
Bottom line to me is this: If you have a money tree , and really like the bolt on idea by all means do it that way as it is the absolute cleanest way to put them on . However if you are lacking a money tree , and dont like spending big $$$$ just to install a set of sliders but you do want then on there in a proper manner then by all means get them welded on (cheap, easy, super strong).
Take care,
Richard S.

Nobody

I was a little concerned with the tack welding possibly letting in gunk and such- but out here in vegas its not much of a concern. I took some time and bolted on mine....first i held the sliders (exactly the same as yours) in place with Cclamps and spray painted the holes...took the sliders down and drilled the holes at the painted spots..the top holes were off angle a bit but my goal was to get them 'temporaraly bolted on' and also get them tack welded..

took a little lining up but i eventually got them in place and had em tack welded.

Robinhood150

For his needs I think Bill can get away without sleeving though. Since his sliders are going on a pretty new truck I don't think he's going to be pounding on it like a rock buggy. The sliders are only there for the occasional boulder that he (relatively) slowly drops on. I bet he can get away with through bolts on the bottom with grade 8 washers. A better solution would be to use a backing plate, but that would require more expense to get it cut at the welders.

I don't really like the idea of drilling a 1" hole in the frame and not welding it. When you weld the sleeve in, it minimizes the stress riser in the frame since it's an integral part of the frame. A giant 1" hole is a huge stress riser in a what...5" tall frame.

bobzemuda

Huge concern here in Missouri. I'm part of the rust belt. I've been pitching a move to AZ to my wife for months as I've been tired of the weather in MO for years, and the corporate IT headquarters for my job is in Phoenix.

You should have seen how rusted up the FJ40 I briefly had was.

But then, you can see for yourself.

http://fj40.zemudaville.com/

Bill

Nobody

I could have welded all the way around the plate but I believe that it (welding) stresses the frame to much..if I was concerned about rust I would just run a bead of silicone.. I think using through bolts are a good idea-just a lot more work.

weldpro

I have to respond to your comment. I am wondering what your basis for that opinion is? If you look at all of these frames they are entirely welded. Contrary to misguided heresay our frames receive NO post heat treatment or residual stress relieving . It is an acceptable practice to weld on a light duty truck frame using all common welding procedures granted one has knowledge of the standards set forth by the industry.
Richard S.

Nobody

Misguided is probably the word...in talking with a professional welder where i live-he states that you Never weld to a frame..something about the cooling down of the surounding metal weakens it..I can see his point-im sure some of that does occur but not enough to cause concern- anyway the majority of stress on the frame is vertical- the box integrity is crucial, the impact of 12 holes-espically where they are placed-isn't going to critically weaken it..so I believe that I have the benifit of both bolting and welding with the least amount of impact-and hey...I can lift the truck on the sliders..

Jeff the marmot

It totally depends on the design whether weld-on or bolt-on is better. I originally had weld-on, but cracked the welds on both sides after lots of slamming them into rocks. I was also amazed at the massive amount of rust underneath all the plates since moisture got in through the holes in the frame that are there from the factory.

I agree that I wouldn't have confidence in slamming sliders if they were only held there with self-tapping screws, but I realize that Roger B. has pretty much proven that it's OK to do that despite that it doesn't look right.

I have far more confidence in the strength of my bolt-on solution since I've used much thicker steel for the brackets and it's not totally relying on the bolts either. Plus vertical welds and plates would increase the chance of cracking the frame vertically there, so I'm glad I've gotten away from that. I replaced each side of the sliders separately as I cracked them off the frame. My new bolt-on solution wraps around 3 sides of the frame, so it's much stronger, fewer disadvantages, and more advantages, compared to my weld-on solution. I explained it more at the top of the page here:
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/sliders/
Now I just have to hope that the frame is still strong enough where it was welded since I've changed the internal "structure" of the metal where it was welded.