QSVeilside

Wow... Thank you for the solid response and direction Midiwall.

Sounds like the 190 pump, the AIC and the 2.1" pulley will be next. The IPT valve body upgrade followed by water injection will top it off.

midiwall

Well, the coll thing about YT is that we tend to bill ourselves as a place to learn. All of the "old timers" have certainly had their times being hard on folks (myself included) but we try to reserve that for "later" in a newbies life.

Bottom line, you'll find a lot of experience here on the forum, and we're willing to share it. We ain't Pirate (if you haven't found them yet, then, ummm, "good for you" )


Okay, so now you get the preaching about doing the valve body upgrade. I should have asked if you were auto or not...

Speaking as "someone who is on their 2nd tranny, and THIS one is already slipping...". I can not oversell the importance of having IPT work on your valve body. I'd be surprised if your tranny isn't slipping already from 1st->2nd.

The stock tranny simply isn't set up to be able to handle much more than the torque that comes from a stock 3.4L. The low end kick that you get from the S/C is a lot more than people tend to realize. As such, you're doing a hella job at burning through the 1st gear bands in the tranny.

To PREVENT it, you need the valve body upgrade. To "fix" it once it starts happening, the VB work can do that depending on how bad it is. If it gets too bad, then you're looking at replacing the tranny, and I'll tell ya', that work (not to mention the cost) SUCKS.

The real sucky thing here is that unless you have a loaner that you can drive while the VB is out, it will cost you a TON to overnight the VB from HI to IPT (and back).

Dude... I know how much fun it is to have THAT sound under your right foot. I KNOW how much of a rush it is to want more of it. I KNOW how easy it is to say "800 for a mister or 800 for VB work?" and pick the mister. I also "KNOW" what it's like to swap a tranny.


There.. you've survived my valve body preaching. Do with it what you will, I'll keep my fingers crossed that you don't make the same mistakes that I did (and do!).

mt_goat

URD recommends not going over 50% meth and with the Aquamist pump they say now not to use the blue windshield washer stuff because the soap additives in it can cause problems with the aquamist system. It's best to find a source for racing fuels to buy pure meth and mix your own with distilled water.

MTL_4runner

Geez, my turn to learn something too.....didn't know people were actually running true washer fluid in the Aquamist system (I thought they were mixing straight methanol with water and using the washer fluid tank as the aquamist reservoir). I can see the addition of soap in washer fluid (although there can't be very much or it would leave a residue everywhere) too since that probably prevents the methanol from ruining paint (even if it was diluted). BTW, very good explanation on that stuff Mark!

QSVeilside

Mark,

Thanks again for the advice. Looks like IPT is at the top of the list. Any recommendations on stiffness? I think I read that a 7 out of 10 was considered too stiff for someone on this or the TTORA board. I'd probably want a 4 out of 10, (if it's possible).

Just curious, but how much and how hard is it to find a used valve body?

The idea is, if you buy a used one, ship it over to IPT, you can still drive your 4runner/taco and use a cheaper shipping method since there is no time constraint.

Meanwhile, post the old VB for sale on yotatech

Remove the old one, install the upgraded one, sell the old one on yotatech. Repeat... Everyone is happy, (granted there are no discrepancies in the 3rd gen year to year).

Then again... if it was cost effective to do it this way, it would have been done already.

Hmmm... looks like I might have to go IPT VB, pulley & injector kit, then methanol injection.

Thanks again for all the help.

midiwall

On a re-read I see that I left that point out, but from the research I've done I don't see it being a big deal. Like you say, there's not that much in there.

But, that said, it doesn't hurt to work a bit to find washer fluid that doesn't have soap in it. It's actually the cheaper stuff that won't. You can tell if it does/doesn't by shaking the bottle as you're standing there looking at it. If it's suds up, it's got soap in it.

Methanol isn't "that" expensive to buy, but if you can't find it at a local speed shop, then it has to be shipped by ground. That can be a real issue for the guy above from Hawaii. It can be a pain to take the time to mix up, and as a result people will just run it straight - and THAT's when it becomes expensive to use.


Thanks, but it's a result of research and kinda' cut & pasted from my notes. I'm still getting my head around it so that I can babble on-the-fly about it and call it my own.

midiwall

I think most of the guys here had them setup for a "5". IPT tends to say that 0 is no bite, 10 is a race tranny, I think they talk about 3 being stock. As you say, 7 is tough, it'd be like a hella racing tranny but kinda' useless in the dirt. So that's kinda where "5" comes from - something in the middle of the space between "stock" and "street race".


Excellent thought and one that other's have had. (notice me pointing at myself)

It's a PITA. I looked for a year or more and the stripper yards won't really tear down a tranny so you're looking at buying a whole tranny, stripping out the VB, sending it off, then swapping your old into the 2nd tranny and trying to sell the tranny. That's doable of course, but again, you'll be in a special situation of being in HI and having that shipping issue when it comes to a tranny.

Another issue with that method is that there can be slight differences in the tranny's and thus the VB's. If you talk to IPT they make a big point of having to match up the FULL model number (not just "A340") between the donor and yours, but the problem there is that the full model number is on a tag that's on top of the tranny - there's no way to see it unless you drop it out.

I have a buddy who at one time was looking to start stocking VB in a return/exchange program (you order an IPT modded, he sends one off to IPT from stock, IPT drop ships to you, you send your core back to him) but that hasn't become reality yet. There's the issue of space, time and up-front money.

I'm finally doing mine 'cause I'm "lucky" that my truck is down for an engine rebuild. I don't even have to pay the normal $100/each way direction shipping charge for overnight. I can ship it out there 3rd day and let IPT take their time (within reason!) and then ship it back on the same slow boat.

Bottom line... I think you're gonna have to pull it out of your rig.


So... WHEN YOU DO THIS... be prepared. You'll be spilling tranny fluid, there's really no way around it. You'll also need tranny fluid to go back in, about 7 quarts, maybe 8. And you'll want the fluid to match what's already in there. i.e., this is NOT the time to switch to Amsoil. The issue there is that you won't be able to get ALL of the fluid out, and you don't wanna mix Dextron III and Amsoil.

And... IPT wants more than just the VB. There's a document on the IPT website that shows how to pull it apart and what they need to see:

http://www.importperformancetrans.com/downloads.shtml


HAVE FUN!

mt_goat

They don't really do that "pick your own stiffness" anymore. When I had mine done earlier this year they said they only do a medium modification and that's it. Maybe there was a racing mod if you were just racing, I can't remember.

This is the best instructions I found on the VB R&R.
http://members.cox.net/mgriese5/Level10.html

The ATF just keeps pouring out everytime you remove something, and then it will drip forever. I bet it would drip for years, LOL.

QSVeilside

Ah... No easy way around this one.

Looks like I'll have to give IPT a call after I figure out how I'll get around for a couple weeks during the turn around. No way I'm shipping this thing UPS. There must be several freight forwarding companies that I'll have to look into.

Awesome info. Thanks again Mark.

QSVeilside

MT - Wow, thanks for the awesome link. What is your opinion on the medium VB mod that you received? Too stiff? Or daily drivable?

mt_goat

Seems great to me not too stiff but firm and fast. IPT wants the solenoids sent in with the VB so don't bother removing them like the level 10 write-up says. Edit: I just found the instructions, IPT wanted the 3 pistons with springs, the 3 solenoids, the spring in spring and the small spring for the check ball.

mt_goat

I'd also be worried about the water, maybe they just use tap water in those cheap bottles of washer fluid.

midiwall

Hey Dale...

I FINALLY pulled my VB tonight, it'll ship on Monday (woohoo!), anyway... I was wandering the IPT forums and found this:

http://www.importperformancetrans.co...opic.php?t=754

The thread is from the first of August, but John seems to imply that they will do a varying amount of work on the VB depending on what the customer wants.

I'll be talking to them on Monday, so I'll know more for sure then.

mt_goat

Oh boy! Did you get a good ATF shower? Yeah I guess I remember them saying they could do an extra firm but that would just be something you would want for racing, not DD. For a DD they only do a med mod. I told them it was behind a SCed 300 HP engine and they said their reg mod would be perfect. BTW there is a John that answers the phone and does all the orders but it's not the owner John (transdude). I was confused about that at first. I tried to talk to John Lambardo, the owner, but he never returned my calls.

I found my paperwork, at was done last June and the total was $549 with ground shipping. They turned it around the same day it arrived even though it arrived to them at about 3pm. So I have to give them credit for very fast service.

midiwall

It wasn't too bad. I was working with The Local Gawd so he had a couple of tricks and a lot of oil-soak rags and catch pans. I think the dang VB is STILL dripping! I couldn't believe how much fluid is in that thing!


Yeup.. I'm gonna talk to them tomorrow, but given that I'll be over 400hp I may go a bit stiffer. We'll see what they say.

One thing that I'll have to decide about is how this drives on the street versus the dirt. You kinda' want a bit of slip at the low end on the trail but you still wanna burn that Civic off the light.


Yeup. Three years ago, when I shoulda' done this, it was easy to talk to JohnL, but now you only get the other John. It's okay, I know the work will be right.

Wow... That's cheaper than I was looking at! WOOHOO! I'll be "lucky" at this point that I don't mind waiting, since the engine is out of the truck at a machinist. (well, )

midiwall

re: IPT varying levels of modifications

I just got off the phone with them. It turns out that (according to John #2) they have never really done different levels of work on the VB. They found "a sweet spot" and stick to it. They say that sometimes they may back off a bit for Your Mom, but past that - everyone's got the same ride.

He did say though that the more info they have the better, so knowing that you're stock, or pushing 400hp at the crank is a good thing.

mt_goat

Yeah I told you. So you couldn't get the racing mod huh?

midiwall

Ehh, WhatDoIKnow?

Well, that you can do, but I think all of us here appreciate a bit if slippage.

And no, 400hp at the crank - but then you re-read the post and saw that. I think I'll be up at 320 at the wheels when the engine gets back together.


I'll ship it tomorrow! I'm psyched!

TRDatVT

To answer a few questions...

The dyno tune was done at 11.8 AFR with no knocking at 10.8 PSI and no alcohol. Increasing the AFR to 11.5 increased my torque about 2.5 but decreased my HP by a little over 2 so it didnt seem worth it. I do have the need for a larger nozzle (currently running a 0.5 mm nozzle that a buddy had laying around to see how well it worked) at around 0.9 mm.

I have done quite a bit of research on the grand national forums, and those guys have been running blue water windshield fluid for a decades with no problems, i trust the history of that information. Also, i have heard that using the ISO-HEET gas line antifreeze is almost pure methanol and can be used to mix with distilled water at a little over 1 dollar per bottle FYI. I will be looking into this more.

Brad over at Georges (one of the few aquamist dealers) said that for our application, mostly water (with enough alcohol to prevent freezing) should provide for the best results. I feel like this is true but only if you do not plan to increase timing. Increased timing to account for the burn rate of methanol should provide for much better HP numbers and still remain safe as long as it is tuned accordingly. Also, he said on windsheild washer fluid and a good tune, we could run in the neighborhood of 13:1 or higher AFR without knock to increase HP since the stoichiometric ratio of methanol is 6:1 (not to be confused with annatured acohol mixtures which is more like 10:1)...

Another problem i ran into on the dyno was slight breakup with ignition spark. I recommend not using the 3 pronged or any platinum plug and getting a straight copper plug (cooler heat range - BKR7E11 NGK v-power copper... stock replacement is BKR5E11) with a decreased gap to around 0.035 to prevent this problem when running higher than stock boost pulleys. This being said... I will be running the following:

BKR7E11 plugs
-0.9 mm nozzle at 120 PSI
-windsheild washer fluid
-non-alcohol AFR of 12:1 for right now
-NEEED Headers - anyone know of a used set somewhere or a cheaper placed to get some downey's or something, i know this is severely decreasing my dyno numbers!!!

TRDnate

TRDatVT:
Any Dyno #'s yet? Also where are getting it dyno tuned at? Is it in VT or somewhere in the mid alt? I got an 97 with an SC and would like to see your setup if you are around northern MD for the holidays and have the time let me know. I live about an hour north of Baltimore in Delaware.

Nate