jtrent

UPDATE: See last few posts, but problem is now narrowed down to issue with immobilizer system. It's sporadic, but seems to be directly linked to cold weather. Any help, advice, or wild guesses are appreciated Thanks!

Well, what developed over several months as a VERY sporadic hard-to-start issue finally came to a head today. I bought the truck back in May of this year and around July began having issues where occasionally the truck didn't want to start. It turns over just fine, but seemed to have either a fuel or a spark issue. This only happended once every couple of months, and after 10-15 minutes of tinkering it always started right up and ran perfectly for weeks afterward. I'm from the "If it ain't totally broke, don't spend good money fixing it...yet" school of thought, so I just dealt with a rare and relatively minor inconvenience.

Yesterday morning, we had our first frost (my first since owning the truck) and it REALLY didn't like the cold weather. It took me nearly 30 minutes to get the truck to start, and when I finally did, I called the local Toyota dealership and scheduled an appointment for this morning. So this morning I get up an extra 30 minutes early, expecting that I might have further issues...and did I ever...

I spent almost an hour and a half trying to get the truck to crank this morning but no go. A good search of the forums here yielded one other guy who seemed to have a similar problem and after 3 pages of trial and error he found that he had a bad #2 Idler pulley on his timing belt and that the crank had jumped timing. I thought maybe I had the same problem, called a tow truck and $150 later, my truck was at the dealership.

Turns out it was the EFI relay. Fortunately this was a reasonably cheap fix (well, not so much after the tow). I just wanted to post this up, so that maybe it might save someone else the headache and the expense...

EDIT: It wasn't the EFI relay after all...see below for new updates

MTL_4runner

Glad you got that problem licked and very cool of you to post the fix (the more people that do, the better YT gets).

TX-BLKRUNNER

yeah i had that problem once. i caught a branch in the undercarriage and pulled the 02 wireing harness out and blew the fuse for the efi. glad you got it fixed.

alotawatts

jtrent,
Just curious - how many miles on your truck ?

04 Rocko Taco

wow, how far are you from the stealer? around here $50 and a tow truck will get you just about anywhere you want to go.

jtrent

135,000

I'm about 55 miles. There's another dealership a little closer (maybe 30 miles) but I have never liked them. The further dealership has always taken great care of me.

jtrent

Well, it wasn't the EFI relay after all.

The morning after I posted the "fix" I tried to crank the truck again with the same results as before. I called the dealership, they offered to pay for the return tow this time, and they've had it every since. The really odd thing is that this time, when it arrived at the dealership it cranked right up and they have been totally unsuccessful in duplicating the problem. It took 2 weeks and finally a 28 degree morning to have the truck fail to start. They checked fuel pressure when they saw none, were convinced that the fuel pump was failing due to cold weather. As they were pushing it inside, the tech steering noticed that the security light was blinking even though the key was in the ignition.

I've seen two other posts here referencing the EXACT same problem (both of which I've resurected). I am hoping that someone can help me find a fix here. If the security light goes off, the truck cranks. If it doesn't, it won't crank.

Any ideas? I'd even be willing to install a bypass as referenced here in a couple of threads about installation tricks for remote start. Hell, I will even go with a full aftermarket alarm system if I have to...I just have to have a truck that will crank every morning and get me to work.

MTL_4runner

Jeff, why not at least remove the stock system (RS3200?.....it's pretty easy to remove, no soldering at all) and then that will get you back to square one (ie nothing to prevent starting electronically) and you can see if the truck continues to have starting problems. If not, then you know the issue is with the security system. If it does, you can focus on what is preventing it from cranking (although it sounds to me like the alarm is to blame in this situation).

Does your year 4runner have a chipped key?

jtrent

MTL: Are there any good instructions on how to remove and/or bypass this system?

MTL_4runner

Yes, I've seen it on here in a PDF, I'll see if I can help you dig it up.
It would be helpful to know what security system you have though.

jtrent

How can I find out?

jtrent

Anyone else have any input? The truck has run perfectly since Saturday, except for one brief period where the security light was flashing with the key in the ignition Sunday morning, and I didn't even bother to try to crank it because I was in a hurry...just assumed that it wouldn't. I wish now that I had, just so I'd know for sure...

MTL_4runner

You need to find the "brain" and it will say right on it.
The brain for the security system will usually be under the driver's seat or in the console next to your right knee.

Here's the install instructions:
http://www.reapur.com/car/4runner/RS...s%20manual.pdf

jtrent

I just checked under the driver's seat and no such luck. I will check behind the console panel tonight. Thanks for the info Jamie; hopefully it will help.

User 051420

This may be a bit unrelated, but perhaps the last notation at the bottom could be of help to you. Perhaps testing the wire that senses your key in the ignition could help you find your real problem, and possibly remedy it. I would try and check for continuity in that wire.

http://www.commandocaralarms.com/wir...Toyota/4Runner


Function: Disarm No Unlock
Color: yellow/red [9]
Polarity: Negative (-)
Location: Steering column
"[9]This is the ignition key sense wire. Using the status output wire from the remote start to groundThis wire will disarm the alarm without unlocking the doors"

jtrent

Neil,

Thanks for the tip. I will go ahead and locate the key detection wire you mentioned, and the next time the problem occurs will test this. What is the normal status on this circuit? If I understand the link you provided, grouding this circuit will disarm the alarm and cause the vehicle to believe the key is in the ignition, correct? Will this help on an immobilizer equiped vehicle since the transponder will still not be present? Will I need the TransMod device to make this work, or will this device even work if there is another problem in the system?

User 051420

You're getting a few steps ahead of me.

What I was getting at, is that it seems like the immobilizer system isn't working properly. As far as I know, even if you disconnect the alarm, the immobilizer system still functions as normal. (you'll need to do the legwork here, and test my theory by locating and unhooking the alarm)

If this was my rig, I'd attack it like this:
1) Unhook alarm, if problem still exists..proceed to step 2.
2) Obtain FSM (factory service manual), and look for details on the immobilizer system.
3) Figure out why it isn't working (Do you have more than one chipped key? Does it fail it start with BOTH keys? etc..)

Disclaimer:
I hate to be running you down the wrong path, but with my experience (which is moderately limited), this seems the most likely to me. I wouldn't assume any of this if you didn't mention the alarm light.

04 Rocko Taco

J, if its of any help, I've got the FSM for 03 taco's. should be fairly close to a 99 runner in most applications I would think...

jtrent

Chris,

Thanks for the offer, I'd love to look at that FSM.

Neil,

I'm 99% confident it's the immobilizer system. The problem ONLY occurs when the security light continues to blink after the key is inserted into the ignition. We've already coded and cut another key, same problem.

If I disconnect the factory alarm by reversing the installation instructions you provided, can I expect any adverse affects?

Thanks,

Jeff Trent

User 051420

Jeff-
I'd just locate the alarm and unplug it. See what happens. I know on my alarm (RS3200), if you disconnect ALL of the harnesses on it, the vehicle wont start. That said, it may be a shot in the dark until you find out which harnesses need to be plugged in. An alarm manual would make this MUCH easier.

Sorry I can't be of any help here.