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Used the specs from the FSM and a set of feeler gauges to set the valve tappets. .008 and .012 warmed up. I've heard of people going with .07 and .09 for larger cams, but stuck with the factory specs. They're definitely not over adjusted or so tight that they're causing the valves not to completely close. There's definitely enough space to slide the feeler gauge in on both sides with the engine warmed up.
Both the Cam and crank were at 12 o'clock high noon when the timing chain was installed (silver link on top). They still line up when setting the distributor to the #1 spark plug. I'll double check, but I'm guessing I wouldn't have come up with 1/2 a degree from what the cam specs said when degreeing the cam, and exact TDC (found with a piston stop / LCE's kit) wouldn't have been at breakeven Zero on the huge wheel.
I'm going to play with it some more....maybe swap out spark plug wires (I've got the 11mm Livewires kit on there now), spark plugs, MAF's, do a few more things to try and isolate where the issue could be before I get into spending a bunch more money on it. Double check all the plugs and hoses. Who knows. I've seen motors not running properly because some bone head left a red rag in the exhaust or in a heater pipe before bolting it up......and I'm NOT beyond bone-head status right now.
Nothing is as fun as pulling a manifold to check for a "dust guard" you're not sure you removed only to find it in your pocket as you're putting it back on wondering where it went! I usually find I did remove them but if I'm in doubt I'm checking to make sure.
Air valve hoses are never friends of mine. Symptoms are inability to idle with out throttle input or poor idle character and an ineffective idle screw. If the rear hose leaks you get a higher idle than expected for a given idle screw depth, since it's after the throttle plate. If the front hose leaks you have the choppy low idle that might try and stall as the fuel pump cycles on and off.
You are pretty confident on the cam timing, barring any inadvertent boneheaded foul ups.
What is the ignition timing showing, Jumper in, out, and off idle. From memory those are something like, 10 12-15 and 20.
Are you familiar with the interconnect between timing and idle speed? If after setting the distributor position the idle speed has changed you'll need to readjust the idle speed back to spec and follow up with another timing check and probably adjustment also.
It's only an idle issue, off idle power is OK? You have a aftermarket cam iirc? Did they suggest changing the idle by pass port in the VAFM? If the vane flops open to far at idle it should be overfueling. You can try manipulation on the vane while it is running, but I can't give my firm information on where it should sit at idle. I expect the vane nearly closes at idle with the fuel pump circuit closed, based on the internals. (internally there is a second spring that pushes on the mechanism untill the fuel circuit closes then has a limit/stop.)
ha! My "Dust guards" usually consist of one expertly tooth torn piece of black duct tape and that always gets removed before bolting on a manifold / header or intake.
I'm going to pull back out the vacuum hose diagram and double check everything. I've labeled them before, but the silicone doesn't hold marker well and everything got so oily, that the degreaser may have wiped the notes right out, so double checking every hose and vacuum switch to make sure they're routed correctly is just plain smart (and cheap). I think when I do it this time I'll use a band of colored heat shrink tubing over the top of the vacuum lines and some corresponding nail polish on the place they go so a third grader could put it back next time if needed. The idle screw definitely raises and lowers the idle, and had it set at stock when I set the timing (with the jumper in place in the diagnostics port), but was still a bit higher than the 750 the FSM suggests when setting timing.
I've got the adjustable timing cog on the dual row chain, and had it set at 5 degrees advanced when it was on before. I have it at zero now, and this particular cam (LCE Pro Torquer) may require it to be a bit advanced, although the adjustable cams are usually for people with majorly decked blocks or heads, or for those trying to adjust their power band to the lower end (more torque) or higher end power. It's a few allen head screws to adjust it, so I may play with that some as well (starting it back where I had it the last time it purred like a kitten).
The MAF is the first thing I'm going to try swapping to a different unit. I've got the larger 3" Supra MAF on it now and it could absolutely be over fueling. I happen to have another 4Runner sitting feet away and will start with timing, new plugs, and the MAF swap to see if that clears the issue up.
I think I just got really frustrated when it didn't fire right up (like it has in the past), and being left without wheels when my dad's T-100 I was borrowing took a dump - only compounded that frustration into daydreaming about driving (or pushing) it into the lake, or burning it to the ground and walking away with hopefully an insurance check. Now that I've had a little time to cool down and think about it, I'm almost certain there's some little something I screwed up on and am working my courage back up to getting back in diagnostics / problem solving mode and figuring this thing out (some more whisky may help speed this process up).
Just upped my rental car for another week while another mechanic is working on my Dad's T-100 new JDM 5VZ-FE install. Hoping to get it back up and running by next week so I can ditch the rental and go back to focusing on the 4Runner, but may be working on it in the meantime in case I do get it going, I can save some $$$ on the rental.
Thanks to everyone for throwing out ideas. Trust me, I'll look into them and double check the work. Go back to zero, double check everything again, and pull it and tear it down once more if I need to in order to get this baby up and running right.
Plug wires is a good think to check. My friend replaced his years ago with some high performance ones and it ran like crap. We couldn't figure it out until eventually a Toyota mechanic found it.
This was 15+ years ago and I still remember what another friend said at the time. Think of the last thing you changed before it started acting up.
Go to the Yotatech main Facebook Site, you're like their latest post (and may be able to answer a ton of the questions about the rig in the comments section)
Last edited by joelsmithdesigns; 01-12-2017 at 10:28 AM.
Go to the Yotatech main Facebook Site, you're like their latest post (and may be able to answer a ton of the questions about the rig in the comments section)
Paid the other 1/2 that I owed on the 5VZ-FE and had it picked up by the tow company. Luckily I talked him into stopping by the JDM shop down the street and they loaded it into the back of the truck. Mechanic should love me....sent the whole thing off as a package deal.
However, I'm losing the rental on Monday, so I'll have all day tomorrow to play around with the 4Runner and try to get that 22RE running. I've got a list of things to try made out and will probably work my way from cheapest/easiest to most expensive/labor intensive.
Just happy the truck is at the shop getting fixed.
I'm hoping that all the car trouble and bad luck have been front loaded into early 2017 and that I'm trouble free for the rest of the year.
Finally worked up the courage to go through the motor again this weekend. It rained cats and dogs Saturday, and drizzled all of Sunday, but I was out there in it. Started with converting it back to the original MAF / AFM from the larger Supra one. Put in brand new NGK Iridium spark plugs, and adjusted the adjustable cam shaft gear back to the 5 degrees I had it before. I also went back through all of the vacuum hoses and reworked them. Because I had relocated the vsv's to the firewall, there were several hoses I was able to eliminate and plug them directly where they go without having to use the original tubes on the rail (hose to the fuel pressure regulator would be one I'd call out). Here's the vacuum diagram I used and was the clearest and easiest to understand.
The LCE Adjustable Cam gear (two row) version I have is a little tricky. You've got to still set the camshaft with the pin at 12 O'clock, but the readout is slightly right, so it makes you feel like it's slightly off (doesn't affect the timing degree, there probably just wasn't enough space to put in degree marks at the 12 O'clock position). They even mark the top tooth for you as shown below.
So I moved mine back to the 5 degrees advanced where it was before.
This one's to show the alignment of the lower crank at Zero and the top cam slightly advanced.
Not 100% sure which one of the things I changed did it, but it fired right up......no smoke....no crazy noises.....and I've just got to set the timing and play around with how it drives at 5 degrees advanced versus 3 or maybe even 7. Sadly, I had taken the timing gun down to my office when Dad's truck blew up, so I didn't have it with me and couldn't get it dialed in perfectly. I'll definitely make some more adjustments back and forth and see how it drives and figure out which position gives the best performance and fuel efficiency.
Couldn't be happier as I had to drop off the rental today and wasn't sure what I was going to do for the rest of the week, and was so close to just giving up on the whole thing.
I've always wondered if those adjustable gears are the ˟˟˟˟ or not. I believe my cam is around 1 degree off but my truck goes down the road fine so I can't bring myself to tear it back down. I was very careful but I think I'm a half a tooth off. Makes getting it to idle without a slight stumble very hard. I'm glad your trucks RUNNING again. Ready to see the mods you've been showing us plans for!!
On my stock 22r cam gear, when everything was lined up, the dot on the cam gear would be slightly offset as well, it wasn't straight at 12 o clock, same with my adjustable cam gear. And please don't waste your money on irridium spark plugs, the 22r will run better with copper ngk or denso ( I beleive the correct term is they are more conductive?) but it won't last you 100k like the irridium ones do which is their only benefit I know of. Good to know everything runs well.
No Leaks on the motor, but it's not 100% dialed in yet and I still need to fine tune it this weekend (with a timing gun and proper tools!).
Without wheels, and being bussed around by a soccer mom all week, I haven't even been home at all. However, Just Picked up the T-100 and it runs like a top (although it was about $300 more than the mechanic said it would be). Heading home now, with one stop for work. Planning on adjusting a few things back and forth to get it running the best it can and I'll let you guys know how it turns out. It's just really nice to know I'm not catching the train and have a running vehicle again.
Thanks for the info gillesdetrail, I'll give the copper NGK or Denso plugs a try.
01-09-2017, 06:05 AM
