Cargun

Just got an email from my mom....

"I drove Dad's Sequoia when we got a lot of snow last weekend. He needs a new car! It sounds like it is going to fall apart. What do you think he should get--something comfortable since we take it on trips. We need a lot of room with Seth and all his stuff. I was wondering if we should get something where we could get 4 captain chairs?????????"

I know this is probably the wrong forum, but I'm not a member of any of the "right" forums.... but anyone here have experience with the new large crossover type SUV's like the Audi Q7, VW Toureg, Porsche Cayenne, BMW X5, Cadillac SRX, Mercedes GL (I'll make him take a look at the G-wagon, Lexus GX, and Land Cruiser too, but that's a long shot). Maybe even a Mercedes R class, but I wasn't too impressed looking at them. I wish she sent me this email BEFORE I went to the Chicago autoshow and I could have looked closer at all these vehicles.

A lot of this hinges on how much capability he's willing to give up with his SUV. It needs to have decent 4x4 ability for deep snow and off-roading while hunting. For towing... he does tow with the Sequoia, but I could see him using his pickup for that instead. But I'd say at least 5000 lbs of towing capacity is required since things like fishing trips aren't pickup friendly. But you'd have to work hard to convince me any of the above city-slicker vehicles are worse tow/off-road vehicles than the Sequoia, it's pretty pathetic in those regards for being a large body on frame SUV. So I figure since he's put up with the Sequoia for 5 years and 130k miles that he'll have no problem moving over to something car based, especially since he has a 4x4 Chevy pickup to handle the hard work.

The new GM SUV's have already been black-balled by my mom due to inadequete 2nd row accomodations. Don't even talk to me about anything that Ford or Chrysler are offereing currently, I think he'd keep this Sequoia before buying any of those. Buying another Sequoia before the redesign comes out is an option, but I'm not too enthused about that as I think there are a lot of better alternatives on the market, especially since the Sequoia doesn't excel at things you would normally buy a truck based SUV to do. And the effective "mom pleasing" life of 130k miles is pretty bad IMO. I would assume any of the newer vehicles would last longer than that while remaining solid. How come a Toyota that came out in 01 doesn't have a noticeably better structure than the GM SUV's that came out in 92?

colsoncj

Well, Cayenne is a rebadged Toureg with the TT option. I personally like Touregs better, but I dont think its quite large enough for what you're looking for is it? How big are you looking?

04 Rocko Taco

Land Cruiser Land Cruiser Land Cuiser...Sorry...

tulsa_97SR5

Hans, I'm surprised the Sequoia is aging so badly, my dad has 85k on his and it's like new. I wonder if it just needs a little TLC.

No idea on what would be a good replacement, haven't kept up with those bigger suv's.

Cargun

Cayenne is more than a rebadged Toureg (or however it's spelled). They share a platform, but there are a lot of differences. Way more than Yukon to an Escalade for instance, which is much closer to a badge job (True badge jobs are Chevy/GMC trucks, Plymouth anything, Ford Ranger/Mazda B series, Land Cruiser/LX etc.). I'd hope for better dealer service from Porsche too. Probably more similar to Mazda 3 versus Volvo S40, or Ford 500 versus Volvo S80, or Camry to ES350.

Yeah, I've tried to push for a Land Cruiser in the past, but I doubt it'll happen. And the fact the current Cruisers are pretty long in the tooth... so I may not push as hard for them as I have in the past. I've added Lexus GX470 to the shopping list, but I don't think that'll go over either. 2nd row space is as major selling point, so the smaller vehicles are going to have a tough time.

Age happens gradually over time, but I can definitely say this thing has aged a lot since new. Engine tick, flexy chassis, some rattles, suspension bushings seem to have firmed up some, etc. The tires are newish and the shocks were replaced at 60k as the vehicle was starting to show its age then (They didn't help as much as I hoped). Very comparable to our 96 Suburban, or high mileage Ford crew cabs I've ridden in. Or a new Explorer for that matter I think it's mainly the chassis shivers that's pissing my mom off. Those are hard to avoid on long body on frame vehicles. Although I have been very impressed with the 03+ Dodge Ram HD chassis in that regard.

My Impala SS is at 125k and it's definitely feeling it's age too. The Impala is worth fixing, a Sequoia isn't. The Sequoia doesn't offer anything a new vehicle doesn't. Heck, he can buy a new Sequoia that's just like it only with a 5 speed auto and VVT. And even after dumping money in it fixing the small stuff, you're still left with 130k on all the major components (The 02 transmissions are notoriously weak and this is on its original). 130k is more than my 85 Runner has on it!!! And that thing is far from new. Still a good vehicle, but if they still made new ones I'd own one. And 130k is the most mileage my parents have ever put on a vehicle before getting rid of it, and I don't see them having the patience for all the little maintenance high mileage vehicles require. My dad likes visiting the dealer on his schedule, not the vehicles. (I'm thinking water pumps, alternators, u-joints, axle bearings, exhaust manifold, various sensors, etc.) Heck, it's only 70k away from needing another timing belt. They love the local Toyota dealer... but not that much.

So far I'm really liking the Q7 and GL CDI. GL has a 3:1 low range and locking rear differential. And diesels just rock If the GL turned out to be a good vehicle I'd probably buy it off of him when he's ready for the next one.

colsoncj

any updates?

Cargun

Not much progress. It seems MB reliability hasn't improved over the last decade, so that rules out those as an option. It basically seems like there are no good contenders on the market.

Armada/Q56: poor reliability and quality
MB: poor reliability and no local dealer
GM: rear seat designed for kids
Ford: Outdated, bad riding, cheap materials, no power, has hog, kiddie level rear seat, etc
Chrysler: Is any comment required on their SUV lineup? Possibly worse than Fords
Land Cruiser/Sequoia: Old and outdated, about to be replaced. The Cruiser is more ancient than the Sequoia (1997 I think?), but at least it raises the quality level some
Audi: Still a possibility, but the rear seat is questionable, as is the reliability
BMW: X5 might work, but it needs to be i-driveless. My dad can barely use a computer

My prediction is that they'll end up with a GM something, but we'll see. As long as they wait till I go home so I can go car shopping too it's all good.

Napoleon047

why not a 4th gen 4unner? since he has the chevy truck for the heavy hauling etc.

CJM

I dont understand how a Toyota could be in bad shape unlessit wasnt cared for or was a lemon from the get go. Everyone I have ever known to have one has been 100% satisfied.

My honest opinion, buy a runner if he doesnt need to haul with it,otherwise a used tahoe isnt to bad.

colsoncj

So is the Porsche out?

What about a volvo?

Injohneer

Are you saying that late model Suburbans lack decent legroom in the back seat? I wouldn't know, just curious. My old '79 has plenty of room, iirc.

91TPU

my parents just got the volvo, its nice, pretty spacious, but its more lux then tow/offroad capable...it is a sweet ride tho...so far no serious problems

tulsa_97SR5

I'm bummed to hear that it's aging so poorly, I convinced my dad to stop buying expeditions every couple years and get something decent. He's planning to keep his for a long time, retiring next year so car payments are going to hurt a lot more. Hopefully he has better luck with his, so far at 85k it's about like new except for stuff like the seat leather (he's a big guy).

Cargun

Aging "poorly" is all relative. I have yet to see a vehicle go 130k miles and truly be "like new". Usually when people use that phrase they mean "This thing doesn't show it's age nearly as much as my old Chevy Cavalier did". To put some perspective on it... the Sequia with 130k is in nicer shape that Cory's 166k 98 4Runner. And for having 166k on it, his 4Runner is in good shape, as those who've seen it can atest to.

As far as squeaks and shivers are concerned, the Sequoia is par for the course for ALL large SUV's and crew cab trucks I've ridden it. It hasn't been solid from day 1 and age has only made it worse. For comparison, our Burb at 100k felt about 1/2 as loose as Cory's Burb at 160k. The Sequioa at 130k feels like our Burb at 100k. Which is better than the last 60k Ford F250 crew cab I rode in. Even the new 07 Chevy's I've ridden in aren't completely solid, but there's the best large SUV I've ever seen from that stand point. I'm trying to find something that feels solid like the 90-95 4Runners did back in the day... not the cheaper 96+ feeling 4runners. Even the ~30k mile 4th gen I rode in wasn't "solid". In fact, the 90-95 4Runners may be the only solid body on frame SUV's I've ever ridden in (mainly based on one my friends dad got new in 92, the one my dad bought new in 90 never "felt" solid because of the squeaking rear tire carrier, rattling transmission shift lever, and a rattle coming from one of the seat belt reels). For unibodies the Lexus RX330's feel good, as do BMW X5's, but I wasn't impressed with a Acura MDX from the chassis integrity stand point.

My parents vehicles are far from abused. They're pretty pampered actually, but there's still no getting around the fact it has 130k miles on it and even the best vehicles age. My mom's LS430 has about 70k on it and it's aged as well. I've yet to see a vehicle that was truly "like new" with over 25k on it. Under that... yeah, they're close enough to new that it's hard to tell the difference on a pampered vehicle.

I hadn't even thought of the Volvo, that could be an interesting choice. Know if they can tow? I think he'll need at least 5k towing out of the SUV for family fishing trips and stuff. We can leave tractor hauling up to the pickup though, as that's usually NOT a family activity (my mom just doesn't see the point of the finer things in life ).

I've ridden down to Houston in a 4th gen 4Runner, their FRONT seat isn't even that comfortable. Way too close to the floor. The whole reason he didn't get another Burban after his 96 was neither the 96 or the new-at-the-time 02 Burbans had as comfortable of rear seats as the Sequoia. The new ones seem to be better than the the previous body styles, but they still don't have seats that are as comfortable for an adult as the Sequoia. The seats are sized perfect for a 12 year old, not a 50 year old. And a 79 Burban? My mom doesn't even make it out of the driveway in my 76 Chevy truck without bitching about how uncomfortable it is!

It's not necessarily the room that's the problem, it's all about the seat. The bottom cushion needs to be long enough to support the legs, the cushion has be be far enough off the floor that you feel like you're sitting at the proper height, it has to recline, and it has to be comfortable and supportive for long trips. She'd like to find something that has a nicer rear seat than her LS430 or a Caddy DeVille. Those are two cars that definitely had adults in mind when designing the rear seat. My Impala ain't bad either.... although the only time I've sat back there is while cleaning the interior.

Cargun

Looks like a XC90 will tow 5k. So I'll add that one to the list. I hope to have a list of serious contenders whittled down to ~3 vehicles by the time I go home for Easter. That way we can do a good day of car shopping.

Nissan refreshed the Armadas for 08 too, so maybe we should wait till they hit the lots. Supposedly the interior materials are a lot higher quality than before. Armada's have nice rear seats. Only question is if they've managed to get out of their reliability funk? The probem is it takes a least a year to start getting an idea of reliability, an the 06 Nissans still aren't cutting it there. The MB GL's are new too, but they're basically a stretched ML, so I figure reliability will be equal between the two. Problem is the local Nissan dealer is the same as the local Cadillac dealer that has pissed us off, so I don't have faith in the dealer fixing any issues they might have with a Nissan. Our excellent Toyota dealer also carries Lincoln and Mercury, but those brands are a joke right now. The Navigator is far and away the biggest waste of money offered for sale today.

Anyone see the Consumer reports thing that just came out pointing that for 2006 the least reliable MB car was more likely to have problems than a 1998 Lexus LS400? I thought that was pretty funny. But it's also part of the reason I keep telling my mom to hang onto her LS430 for a while. I have enough faith that it's a good 150k car. But she'll probably dump it at 100k anyways. Just wish I could afford to buy one with 100k on it!

Trumpfan

Holy deep pockets batman. V10 diesel toureg would get my vote, if you can still get them in the states.

Cargun

Unfortunately they aren't. VW is going to reintroduce them at some point, but I'm not sure how soon. Maybe an old Toureg is still sitting around on a dealer lot somewhere with the diesel.

Yeah Cory, the Cayenne is still in the running, but I haven't even sat in it and haven't done any research on them in about 2 years. Don't worry... It won't be long before I get a good opinion on them

Deep pockets? I wish... I can't get them to buy anything over $60k. Hence my lack of success on the G-wagon front. I should at least go look at the GL's though... and test drive a G while I'm at it!

Injohneer

I don't wanna sound stupid, but I saw a Honda Ridgeline the other day and thought of this thread.
I don't know the towing capacity, and it's not a SUV per se, but it does have a covered bed. Might be worth looking over briefly

drguitarum2005

for what its worth, my neighbors had two porche cayennes, one regular, one turbo and they sold BOTH of them STAT. they said they were pieces of junk from day 1

Cargun

Yeah, I heard about a TON of problems with the Cayenne and Toureg when they first came out. I need to figure out if the new ones are better.

Ridgeline is a Avalanche type thing... no go there. Pilot maybe... haven't ridden in one, but since I wasn't impressed with the MDX I rode around in for a day I probably won't look at the Pilot.