Cebby

http://rigs.corequipment.com/Cebby/Wavs/failure2_x.wav

4x4spaz

iTrader: (2)

OK, so I've read through the thread and got the jist... Tread Lightly... stay on the trail... minimal environmental impact... blah blah blah.... What I need to understand is why Uberyota was given a temp ban.

He posted pictures and admitted to going off the trail.

OK, so if anyone were to post pics of themselves driving off the trail, then they are to be banned? I don't think that is the proper course of action. I understand that being a part of Yotatech is a privelege and it's one that I'd like to keep. So I need to know if I go posting pics or telling stories where I'm not in full compliance with Tread Lightly, am I gonna get denied the privelege (aka BANNED)? And yes, this has everything to do with this thread because it helps shed light on the relationship of Yotatech and Tread Lightly.

And in my personal opinion... I think it's the Moderators' jobs to mod and censor YOTATECH, not the way that its members offroad.

bob200587

I think alot of the problems could be solved, like many others in today's society with education. I remember when I was just starting to drive, I didn't know about tread lightly, I didn't respect private property, but I found this site and started to learn, and as you learn about wheeling and gain experience you have a greater respect and knowledge about the land you're using and the fact that it is a privilage (sp?) to use it.

I personally am strongly against lobbying. The groups who can raise the most money get their way, not those in majority, or those in the right. But there is little I can do about that. The best thing we as a 4wheeling community, is to be commited to educating anyone that is interested in the sport about doing it right, and doing it safely. Let just about anyone with a 4x4 that you are acquainted with know about tread lightly and refer them to our site or one that will teach them similar things about smart 4wheeling.

As some have already mentioned, It's not just about the enviornment (I don't personally care so much about that), as it is about protecting our PRIVILAGE (sp? again) to wheel.

Bob_98SR5

4x4spaz,

Yes, you will be temp or full banned if you describe (in words or pics) that you went off a marked trail. here is the rule below:

9. Tread Lightly!
To ensure the future of off-roading, YotaTech.com promotes the values of Tread Lightly. Posting about trespassing, making illegal trails/bypasses, littering, polluting, etc will not be tolerated. This includes posting about going wheeling in an area you do not know is 100% legal. Ignorance is not an excuse. This is a banishable offense. For more info go to www.treadlightly.org.

And speaking for myself here: i don't want to be associated with a group that tolerates going off the trails and/or making trails where they are not supposed to. for example, i dont want to drive 4-5 hours, waste $200 on gas and get up to a trail only to be denied access or given some b.s. excuse by the forest service because they know that the YT guys are known for "blazing their own trails", so to speak. you think the forest service doesn't monitor large groups coming up to their parks on the internet? think again.

bob

AxleIke

I edited my original post because this is a debate and not a place to throw poo. Apologies.

You may pay taxes, but you can't use the land any old way you want. Different lands have different rules. You can do things in national forrests that you can't do in National Parks, and state parks have different guidelines as well. You can't do what you want, and the greenies don't have a case if we keep our impact to a minimum. Driving on a pre cut trail is acceptable use, it's when the whole area gets eroded from off trail driving that the enviro's have a case. No lawmaker will pass a law shuting down a trail that has no more impact than what is driven on the trail. Has to be a reason, and you are giving them more and more.

However, i have to ask something to the opponents of Tread Lightly that have posted here and in the other thread: Why are you here? I do not mean this in a dissrespectful way, nor in a condescending way, but merely to satisfy curiosity and to pose a suggestion. This board is a moderate offroad board, it has specific rules designed to promote conservative wheeling practices, and a polite, easy to like, atmosphere. You guys seem much more suited to Pirate. There aren't really rules there, or i should say, they are loosely enforced, and thats not nessesarily a bad thing. JamesD, 4x4spaz, this site doesn't seem to be to your liking, as it promotes things you do not like, nor believe in. We would like to see you change your ways, and helping in the effort we are trying to promote, but I do not believe that you will. I'm sure you are on pirate already, why not stay exclusively there? I only suggest this because it doesn't seem that your YotaTech experience is enjoyable to you, that this place is too soft. Again, no disrespect, but hoping to promote a better 4x4 board time for all.

I'm just tired of this. I have fun when i wheel, and i stay on the trail. I don't have a cool bling bling truck, its old, and it goes along well with great mileage. I see pics of guys i know of, but don't know personally, here in colorado with some of the most capable, and the most mashed up, trucks doing just fine staying on the trails, and no one here has trucks that well equiped. All anyone who promotes this cause is asking is that you stay on the trail. Until a law is passed that says we can't cross streams, then crossing them when the trail goes accross them is okay. It has been designated by the powers that be that the crossing there is okay. We are not hippocrites, we just want what will keep as many trails open for as long as possible, and i don't see how this inconvienences poeple to the point where they can no longer stay on the trail. Why is that? Why is it such a burden to do what we ask? I can' figure it out.

reggie 00

"please share your thoughts in an appropriate respectable manner. This post is meant to be a discussion used to educate and determine/clarify a community perspective on Tread Lightly guidelines since it appears that we all do not agree...please

Yep pretty much failed that simple task.

Name calling
Threats
Ect ect

Where was the educational points?
What have we learned?


Turned into a "shouting match"

Close it .

need well mannered debate, not back and forth bickering.

marko3xl3

Where would we be if our parents kept giving up becuase "we didn't agree".

I know I have learned a lot from reading this thread. It educates people on how important this is. It's obvious that Thread Lightly can easily be undermined, but it shouldn't be.

And compared to other threads, this is no shouting match. People here have edited their threads to remove their own mistakes. As I see it, it's not just shouting, it's very heated discussion which goes out of line since it's a very touchy topic. The longer this gets discussed, the more people it reaches so I'd wanna see it kept open.

My 2c

TDiddy

The title of the sub-forum is Trip Planning, Trail Reports-Photos & Land Usage-Responsibility. What in uber's post showed off road responsibility? I'll refer you to Corey's post on the matter:

Intrepid

I do have a question, was Uberyota allowed to defend himself? Did he admit the trail was illegal? For example, if that was his private property, it doesn't matter as much, he can do what he wants. If I missed this I apologize.

Intrepid

Private land owners can close their land at any time. Technically, it is illegal to be on there EVEN IF IT ISN'T POSTED. If it came down to a court of law, it not being posted isn't enough. The rule of "If you don't know, don't go." applies here.
The greenies are cracking down on the public wheeling areas, which is the areas which are free for your use. To say, "they will do it anyway" is irresponsible and again, just looking at today. Look at the big picture, if you had kids, wouldn't you like them to be able to enjoy your favorite hobby of wheeling? Well if you don't get involved, they will close everything and you and your kids will be SOL. Don't think they will stop. In the same way that we would like to see everything open to wheeling, they want to see everything closed to wheeling. I would rather take some responsibility and do my best to keep trails open. I can't understand why you wouldn't.



I tend to agree with you here. I think that Uberyota got the short end of the stick on this deal. But we also don't know what conversation was had between Uber and Corey, so it is tough to gauge. If he was banned immediately and not allowed to defend himself, I disagree with his banning. Banning him doesn't make the problem go away, it just allows us to ignore it. Educating him would be for the best. Now he is still wheeling illegally, but he also has a bad taste in his mouth regarding legal wheelers.


I am glad to hear that.

Paying taxes doesn't grant you any right to use state land persay. Do you have to show proof you paid taxes to use state land? No. You pay taxes to live in this state, that is it. If the state decided to close all public land to all use, are you going to stop paying taxes? No. Do you think your taxes will drop? No. So having state land is a priveledge, not a right. As I said, they could close it all right now and noone could do anything to stop it.

The fanatics thing was in reference to someone elses post. I was using the garbage as as example. If you feel that they are going to close the trails anyway, then why should you bother to pick up trash and not litter? They are getting closed anyway. The earth isn't going anywhere right? So why bother cleaning it?

We are not discussing whether the earth will be here, we are discussing whether or not we will be able to use it in the future. The greenies will not take it away if you fight for it. However if you don't try to protect what you have and you abuse it by not treading lightly, then it will be taken away from you. Is there a good chance that your will be able to wheel for the remainder of your life? Yeah, probably, but is there a good chance that your kids won't? Yeah, there is a really good chance they will not be able to.
Perhaps you should look into the issues more. Here in New England the East Coast 4 Wheel Drive Association and all their member clubs work with both private land owners AND local government to get trails opened, keep trails open, and reopen previously closed trails. We participate in new trail cuts, trail maintenance, and trail cleanups. The EC4WDA and it's member clubs have managed to get many trails opened for use in this area and have fought to keep other trails from being closed, very successfully I might add. They have made MA and CT understand that wheelers need a place to go and have actually made great strides in convincing the government in the area to open areas for OHV use. So you are completely wrong, the greenies will not take it away regardless, they will only take it away if you let them.

TDiddy

AFAIK it was public land - Rose Pass Trail I believe.

Godzilla

You mean uberyota got a temp ban for dropping into the creek? Hopefully more was said in unseen communication that warranted that.

TDiddy

Its not really your decision to make. Look, there will be no more debate on this issue. Yotatech is a member of Tread Lightly, and its expected that members abide by their principles. As Corey said, if you don't like it, you can go elsewhere.

Cebby

Not that you are owed an explanation, but it seems that people's reading comprehension of our rules and the repercussions of breaking them is amiss.

Feel free to reread these Yotatech forum rules AS MANY TIMES AS REQUIRED for it to sink in:This has become pertinent as well:
Not only did UBER post pictures of destroying a stream bank, he also had the gall to defend his actions. If he'd have eaten a little crow, removed the pics and apologized, this debate would have been quite a bit different. If I had my way, every member supporting UBER's position would have also been banned also. Maybe next time...

I'm all for a healthy debate about the topic at hand, what is bothersome to the majority of the members is the tenacity with which some misguided members argue their shortsighted viewpoints. However, I find comfort in with the lack of common sense these folks are exhibitiing, that a Darwin award-like fate eventually awaits them.

In a nutshell, take these disscenting views with a grain of salt and consider the source. Most of you know what is the "right" thing to do.

waskillywabbit

iTrader: (-1)

Can we vote on it?

I'm surprised you mods put up with what you do...and that it took you as long as it did. Yours is a thankless service. We have way too many crybabies as of late.

AxleIke

Ban em all...

J/K but I'm glad to see the thread reopened. It is a difficult subject, and its hard not to get angry at folks who are dissagreeing, and personal attacks are difficult to restrain oneself from.

Something to keep in mind. We aren't the enemy. We promote this becasue we like to wheel, and we like to do so responsibly and legally. We aren't the ones closing the trails, so stop fighting us. You want to get pissed at tread lightly, go fight the Sierra Club, not Yotatech. Fighting with us is like if the Army was Fighting with the Marines, we're on the same side in the end. I think that point has been lost amongst the flinging of poo and the arguing of intelligence. Keep it in perspective eh?

Flygtenstein

Brilliant!

I applaud the staff for a thorough and reasonable response on this matter.

We are all responsible for the actions we, as indivuals, take. We are also responsible for preventing and stopping other foolishness.

As a recap:
Do not do destructive things, post pictures of them on the net, say it is all right and then insist on being in an alternate reality.

Long live the Benevolent Dictatorship!!!

Corey

iTrader: (1)

Time for a wean job...

Godzilla

wow, In no way was i trying to be confronting, or however you interpreted it as. Just merely asking what was going on, not pleading for an unbanning, or whatever. As for the rules section I have not visited those since I began here, so i was unaware the tread lightly rule was added. Is ignorance an excuse for the law, no not at all. But i'll be sure to visit the rules section more frequently to keep myself out of trouble.

Strap22

Great job Corey, Cebby, TDiddy on enforcing the rules and standards that Yota Tech has pledged. I knew a long time ago that this was a great place to hang out and meet like minded individuals. Tread Lightly isn't just a "Tree Hugger" thing to me. It is the only way to ensure we can pass down to our kids and their kids the freedom we have to enjoy the great outdoors. Wheeling is just a bonus in my book.

It appears several lessons were brought out for members to review. I am glad to see this has finally taken a turn for what I would hope to be a positive outcome. Just a suggestion....Make ALL NEW MEMBERS visit the rules site before being able to post. That way they can not say they didn't know. I have been on other forums which enforce such a policy. Just my 2 cents.