Churnd

There are 3 basic types of wheelers:

• Occasional
• Weekend Warrior
• Hardcore

I'm pretty sure you don't need an explanation for each, but if so I'll be glad to accomodate your needs. This forum caters to all 3 equally. That means that one is not considered better than another. That's why, when a member who thinks he's hardcore starts bashing others, it's considered flaming. That's also why we have a rule to prevent that from happening. In case you've forgotten the rule already, here it is again:

The term "grocery-getter" as you've used it, has been used in a derogatory sense as you attempt to prove your end of this debate right, therefore is considered flaming/bashing. I hope you understand. If not, I'll try to think of a way to spell it out better. Right now, I'm at the "2+2=4" level... but I can try to bring it down to the "drawing a picture of adding apples" level if needed. Ok? But just so that you're on the safe side, all you have to do is not use that phrase anymore, alright? Nothing to it!

As for the debate, by all means continue it... either here or another thread... I don't care. I personally think it's pointless, but that's just my opinion. Don't let it stop you.

Intrepid

First, I don't think I am a hardcore wheeler, second, I wasn't flaming anyone...well..perhaps there was some minor insultive quantity going towards Toyota, if Toyota Motor Co personally PMs you and says that they feel flamed, I will happily accept my ban, if not, then I am not flaming anyone, so unwad your panties. A member, who drives a Toyota to work everyday and wheels a Toyota wants to discuss his views regarding a new Toyota vehicle. Since he isn't saying, "WillsFJC has a special holder for diapers and soccer balls in the back because it is a mom-mobile." (no offense intended Will )he isn't flaming anyone, he is trying to discuss his views of the new vehicle. You know, oddly enough, noone would have a problem if I wanted to discuss the weaknesses of a jeep...disregard the fact that you have a problem with me and think about it as a valid discussion, which it is. Perhaps to avoid trouble I should make a "white letters in or out on an FJC" poll, so that rather than have a discussion that may or may not reveal some good information, we could have a perfectly good waste of time. I have not insulted one FJ owner, nor have I said anything about the FJ being a bad vehicle.
The term "grocery getter", which I will not use again as of now lest I offend someone of delicate sensibilities, is not derogatory. It is a two word phrase used to describe the use that the majority of the people who buy it will use it for, the use that I feel Toyota intends it to be used for more often than anything else and the ends to which they designed it. Now, since you are also a super mathematician, how many apples is that?
Now, if everyone could stop being butthurt because, god forbid, I questioned a product built by Toyota, we could actually get somewhere. One thing I always liked about Toyota owner's is that they were down to earth and could discuss things such as this.

Churnd

Thank you. That pertains to "grocery getter", "soccer mom" or anything of that genre.

Well, see... it's a Toyota forum... not a Jeep forum. Ok?

You directed your comments towards FJ owners, which are members of this forum, therefore you were flaming. Ok?

Thanks for understanding!

JHupp

Ehh, I've made my feelings known.

I'm staying out of this from now on.

I mean no disrespect to anyone here, and I apologize if I've hurt anyone's feelings. Like I said, if you've got it, wheel it. If anyone is around the NJ area, and wants to take me out in their FJ (I might be a little more more frightened to meet some of you in person now) I would gladly go!

Interpid, don't I rmemebr you being banned once before, I think we've made our point, and I am not going to argue/flame, whatever in this thread at least.

Intrepid

What about commuter and daily driver, are those close enough to offensive that I shouldn't use them?



Right, good call, I hadn't noticed, so does this mean that we cannot ever say anything bad about any item that Toyota makes? Is Toyota Motor Co that sensitive that their customers aren't allowed to discuss problems with their vehicles?



No, I did not, I directed my comments at a product, I said nothing about the people that own them. Read back and check it out. Ok?

Thanks for the great apple drawings.

Intrepid

Yeah, I have been banned once before. My good buddy Churnd eventually let me back though. I agree, we can be done here, I would hate to see a moderator banned for 30 days for flaming a member he doesn't like/disagree's with since I am sure the rules apply the same to members as to staff.

Hey J, since you are in NJ, you should come to Paragon for NE/PA Mini Takeover this weekend. It will be a great time, looks like about 50 trucks will be there.

JHupp

[threadjack] Yeah, I was planning on it, I was so glad to see my post about the miniakeover was so popular(0 replies) Hahahahahaha, j/k, anyway, I'm tryin' my best to get out there, but I don't have any of the details yet, a couple other people were heading out there from NJTTORA, so I'll porbably meet up with them.[/threadjack]

Intrepid

Nice! I will be there. I will be camped with NE and PA chapters, probably in the field next to the barn at Red Ridge, come over, I will give you a beer and we can discuss FJ's.

Churnd

Continue the debate in this thread if you wish. Please keep it civilized! Thanks

Bob_98SR5

having skimmed through this thread, here are the things i agree with:

- trail rigs are built, not bought

- some people, by virtue of what they purchase, think that their new vehicle makes them a bad-ass offroader. similarly, when i go skiing/snowboarding, i sometimes see families who have the best clothes and equipment...but many of them suck at it. my point being: who cares and why do you let that bother you?!?

- the FJC is a step in the right direction and a vehicle that has rapidly caught on w/ the aftermarket offroad parts manufacturers. the FJC will most likely become the toyota vehicle of choice to mod in years to come.

- the same "mommy wagon/grocery getter" argument was put out when the xterra came out as well as the 4th gen too. guess what? people and companies have put out products to make it less so and trail worthy (see point #1)

bob

Mickdady

Interesting thread! I thought I might add my thoughts. First off, I am friends with some of the guys that are on the FJ trail team. I have learned a lot about the FJ and what it can do through talking and driving with them.

I found it interesting that at the WATTORA run at reiter a few weeks ago how many people brought out their FJs (many brand new). I was also suprised that many of them had never wheeled before. Yet none of these people had any kind of attitude other than wanting to safely learn the sport. In fact of all the runs I have been on this one had the most new wheelers with the least amount of accidents, breakdowns, and body damage. It was really a pleasent day.

Now as to the FJs ability to wheel, in stock form it is not different than the 4runners of any generation. All of the major suspension parts are build of similar size and quality and in general wheels like a stock Toyota suv. Once you start adding some parts it gets even better.

Take for instance the Revtek FJ which made it all the way to the top of the Lk Isabel trail including the difficult side alley which is a very steep rock grade with a high degree approach. The only other vehicle to make it was a buggy and Taco, both of which were much more equiped.

Its the same static we heard when the new 4runner came out....people said it looked too much like a car or minivan and would never be capable. I guess people just need to see it to believe it.

As for the attitudes on the site, I just don't see it....but maybe I am not reading enough into it.

Mikestang

It's been mentioned elsewhere, but I want to reiterate that driver ability has more to do with this type of stuff than does vehicle choice. I remember when I was a kid watching my dad drive a POS 2wd Nissan pickup places that 4x4's were getting stuck. I can buy a pair of Michael Jordan shoes, but I won't play ball like him.

BT17R

Playing catch up here, was out treading lightly in Mt. Hood Nat'l. Forest today (pic below).

My take is that the perfect vehicle is yet to be built, factory or aftermarket. Every factory rig starts as a compromise, and the purpose built iron usually isn't streetable any longer.

Still, FJC is competent in so many areas that it satisfies a broad (no offense to soccer moms) segment of drivers. It is, after all, a modified two-door Prado, world famous for it's on and off-road abilities.

The one factor I haven't seen in this discussion is price. To compare a $22K M/T FJ with standard RR locker and center Torsen to a $65K 100 is unrealistic. Yet no other Toyota has the FJC's unique combination of drivetrain features, none, at any price.

However, from viewing the many video links here of stock FJC's (yes, BFG A/T's are a factory option) completing serious challenges without breakage is impressive, especially considering the sub-RAV4 price point.

From my limited time with an FJC, my three main wants are the 2UZ V-8, a locking glove box and automatic a/c, hahahahaha, I'm so soft. This thing is already more capable than anything I'd think of throwing at it, but I don't plan on driving to Tierra del Fuego anytime soon.

Play hard on the weekends, wash it and go out Saturday nights, reliably and safely drive to work all week, don't see a clone at every intersection and have some disposable income left over at month-end. FJC is a benchmark truck, a solid platform for the aftermarket and will give a new generation their first taste of off-road adventure driving.

Also should make a good bug-out truck during the invasion.

WillsFJC

Fuel to the fire:
Corey himself was downright impressed by the offroad capabilities of my FJ, he made a gushing post or two about it on the forums. Again I say it is not the be all, end all. But they're far from the average mommy mobiles populating suburban america.

bktaco

BT17R - nice pic. i like your post too, like a breath of fresh air after being crammed in a school gym locker. for a week. without sleep.

Jimmeh

While Toyota may have made the FJC seem like the greatest wheeler in the world, other car companies will do so in less noticable ways.

Take Jeep for example. The new Commander is a boxy mom mobile, but when you look at the commercials, and pay attention to what they say, they talk about their wheeling capabilities (at least, the commercials that I have seen). As others have said, no company can make a vehicle SOLELY for off road use, not even Jeep. The Rubicon, as far as I know, was never truly introduced as an Off Road Vehicle (TM) but rather a surfer dudes wet dream. I wheeled my 1st gen a couple of times, and I have wheeled my Wagoneer a couple of times. Both were completley stock, and both did about the same on the same trail. You can take a stock vehicle off road, as long as you know the limitations. You can mod up a truck to make it the best wheeler in the world, but there are still going to be limitations to it. Yeah, the line that is drawn will be farther up the staircase, but once you reach it and go beyond, something is bound to happen. Driver skill also plays a big part in wheeling, as does the vehicle itself, but if you ask me you could have the crappiest four wheel drive, but still be able to take it places that others can take their modded rigs.

If you watch a commercial for a Ford Pickup, you will see it on a mountain road with dust tails billowing out of the back. They make it seem like the vehicle is off road solely for the purpose of people that are weekend warriors to think that they can take it off road. Hell, if somebody was really stupid, they could take an 80's Volkswagen Rabbit "off road" if they really wanted to.

I am not saying that any car company is better then any other car company, nor am I arguing for either side. If you hear commercials or watch them, or even see an add in the paper, more then likey you will see something about how many Miles Per Gallon the vehicle will get rather then the off road capability. Mom's will buy SUV's that get better gas mileage, and so far, the FJC is falling in that catagory with most.
*EDIT*
Also, you may see that mom driving a FJC with all the cool off road features, but you have to remember that a vast majority of people are stupid when it comes to buying a new car. Those said people will not haggle with the salesman, and will end up with all that crap on their car, yet will never use it because they don't know how, or never wanted it in the first place.

Any vehicle is capable of off roading, but whether or not something gets broken in the process all depends on who is driving it, and what it is.

I use the word "mom" to refer to both genders. Not only will women do it, but men will as well.

neliconcept

gonna add my .02.
The Company is out to make money regardless and they want it from both sides.. the soccer moms, business men and the offroading crowd. this rig was built to have great highway and road manners as well as being very capable off road,, you cant ask for much more, if you want to do a trail rig only. go with the fj40 this thing wont be a trail rig only type deal

plus the hummers had independent front and rear sus.. and they can take a beating

dwh91102

Heres one in all it's glory
http://www.guzer.com/videos/hummer_break.php

neilan

well everyone here seems to be taking offroad ability not whats actually happens when u take it offroad. I mean getting sideways into tress ,having mud flung all over everything, and also water + new rigs with lots of electrical goodies = in my opinion a huge mess. Each month i get four wheeler magazine. Every month for about the past year even befor the fj came out there was a thicker cardboard type page with stats on the fj and this month (topic 11) was on the body. It talk about how everything is reinforced and coated with special crap so it dont rust. Also how it has a super rigid frame. Well ya thats all good but they try to sell it to off road enthusiasts and of course some of us buy it and wheel it. But with wheelin eventually comes problems. Say you got sideways into a tree. On an 85 runner i can go to the wrecker get a whole door for 100 bucks. Where as fj door, well good luck finding one anywhere. Unless you go to a body shop or dealer which both will rape you in the money department. The way i look at is ya both can be wheeled decently but both have there disadvantages. It seems that were all about offroad ability but we dont have big check books. I like to go have fun offroad and with that fun comes breaks and breaks cost money. I figure i can have alot more fun with a truck that is decently capable and doesnt break the bank when it does break than one that breaks and i cry when the dealer or parts store tells me a price.

bulldog-yota

Not sure what the point of the thread is

I started to post a long list of technical detail, but realized it will be lost on the thread starter. So all I can say is don't argue before you know the facts, and wheel what you got. Besides it is much more fun out on the trail than arguing on the internet.

Besides a hardcore FJC is just a SAC away, if rockcrawling is your thing. But a mini will still be your best bet. And what about the other 99% of trails and roads you have to drive?

I would not be able to do a 1/4 of the trails I do now if I had to drive a Jeep Wrangler, 40, 1st Gen, etc. Simply due to the fact that I wont be able to cover the ground required, in the time I have availible, and still feel up to doing anything if I'm able to get there in time.

(Now if I could get my hands on a brand new 80 or a 105 things might be different, till then I will stick with my pavement princess. However they are not nearly as nice to drive everyday, which is 90% of the miles most folks do)