nieuwendyk-25

I agree Corey, that is why both of my daily drivers are Toyotas.

But.... they just need to make a Topless FJ or 4Runner again....you can't beat that no top no door feeling. Then I will consider selling my Jeep.

Belize Off Road Team

WHY DO SOCCER MOMS/CURB CRAWLERS buy 4x4 vehicles????? when minivans better suit their needs????? because my dear friends, 4x4 suvs have more ground clearance so they can run a curb to get to the store first. and why do women seem to love the 4runners? cause they have soooo much grocery holding ability! i personally believe that there should be like a LAW that you cant buy a 4WD off road ready vehicle and only use it to tae kids to school/games and to go bloody shopping, it is rather anoying to see a FJ Cruiser all tricked out and ready to rock climb and theres a woman in it with kids in uniforms and groceries in the back! GET A MINIVAN OR RAV4 something that is NOT designed to go down the rubicon trail, you know! the last time my 4Runner was at a mall, was when the previous owner(1st owner) used i JUST for what i just sayed! she never once saw a dirt road!!!!!!!!!!!!!

4mydogs

No way! Then there wouldn't be NEAR as many nice USED 4WDs out there to buy!

Flygtenstein

Thanks for the non-sequitor. I know lots of Toyota guys who trailer their rock crawlers. They ALL do it so if it breaks, there is a way to get it home.

Anyone see the recent Consumer Reports? FJ Cruiser, poster child for visibility issues and sacrificing function for form.

tc, thanks. I have driven it, worked on it and wheeled with it, what the hell do I know.

The FJ is good for what it is. The Rubicon Unlimited is the best off the shelf platform for rock crawling, just bolt and go.

deathrunner

Is it safe to say a Double E-Locked FJ80 was the most capable (On paper) off the shelf Toyota of the last 2 decades?

Is it safe to say that a double locked FJ80 is more capable than an FJ cruiser off the shelf?

Is it safe to say that the Rubicon would be better than this FJ80? Articulation and gearing out of the box?

If you answered yes to all of these, then I think it is clear that the Rubicon outdoes the FJ Cruiser.

TRunner

This statement is more true then what has been touted thus far in this thread. Jeeps are great for crawling around on rocks and boulders, but the sidekick is better so you still don't have the "best" for that application. Jeeps, however, are by far not the greatest off road vehicle. Even the Dodge Dakota (Raider) has proven to be more capable in the last Baja run as Jeep knows better then to even show up for those events.

I think this sums it up:
If you think "off roading" consists of climbing over some rocks or squeezing down narrow trails, then the Jeep might be for you, but there are even better things for that (even atv's which you could fit two or three on a trailer).
If you think "off roading" is driving on things other then roads, then the FJ blows the doors off of the Jeep. Plus, like many have said, they get to drive their rig there, off road with the best of them, drive back home, drive to work the next day, etc...

Bottom line, if you want a trail rig, then maybe there is better then the FJ and for sure cheaper buying the initial parts (but you will be replacing them more often). If you want something to drive everywhere you go (this includes the mall with your kids), the FJ is all you need. And you don't need another daily driver.

So from here on out, let's make it clear if we are speaking about "off-road" capabilities or "doing the impossible rock climb".

Tacoclimber

I think FJ's are pretty...

Corey

iTrader: (1)

They have a body only a parent can love

Excuse me, I have to go out and give mine a hug now, and then wipe down the interior.
Tomorrow it gets bathed if the weather holds.
Then next weekend it gets to play in the dirt again with its new shoes and socks.

weakyota91

THANKYOU DEATHRUNER!! Thats what i was comparing, out of the box capability. I wasnt dissin on toyota or jeep. i was only talking about off the showroom floor. I.F.S a-trac V.S. a straight axle locked f/r.

TRunner

I think this is the problem. People are approaching this with outdated bias. With my experience off roading, which has only been over recent years, I don't see why IFS is so bad.

deathrunner

Ok, I think THIS is the problem. No one is saying IFS is bad. OK, well plenty of people are, but....

IFS is fine, teh reason we see the SA trucks as "better" is because they can simply do more extreme or more difficult stuff. Most buyers/drivers will probably never push there FJ or Rubicon to the point where that is apparent. But for those of us that do, it is clear that the Rubicon is a strong competitor.

It's like a McDonald's worker telling Emeril Legassi why he thinks Ketchup is a better spice than Emeril's "Esssence".

deathrunner

I imagine you meant Samurai instead of Sidekick.

Ummmmm, I''m willing to bet that that Raider, or even the FJ cruiser were not stock in the Baja races. You do all that to a Jeep and the comparisson becomes fair.

Do a google search for Jeepspeed. If that doesn't get you're blood pumping, somethings wrong with ya. Jeeps can go fast too.

AxleIke

It isn't an outdated bias, it is an ignorant bias.

MANY of the people here have absolutely no idea what IFS can do, and think a solid axle is the end all be all.

Take a look at ABQ Jim, and TC and the trails they run. IFS works pretty good when you build it right.

The point that most people miss with solid axles vs IFS, is that a solid axle can be built MUCH stronger than IFS. However, that requires money. Flex ONLY becomes an issue when you are REALLY TRULY rock crawling.

Until you are running trails where a built solid axle, double locked, geared truck on 39"+ tires with either a disregard for body damage or tube body is a must, THEN, and only THEN does flex make or break your day.

Most of the solid axle swapped trucks on this site are barely stronger than the stock IFS that they replaced. Its beyond most folks.

The only point for the rubicon that has made any sense thus far is that stock to stock, the rubicon provides a better rock crawling platform.

However, i've seen one, maybe two, trail reports on this site that would qualify as "rock crawling". The rest is "wheeling", and for "wheeling" the FJ is great.

TRunner

Sure they can go fast, too, but they can't compete in "off road" competitions. And I did actually mean Sidekick, though the Samurai is even better. The Sidekick I know of was maybe a total cost (vehicle, engine and all) of 5K and will out-crawl most other vehicles.

That Raider and both FJ's were in the Stock Mini class of the Baja 1000. The Hummer and Honda were also there to prove themselves. I still don't get where the lighting fast off road champion called Jeep was and ever are.

BTW - JeepSpeed has very modded vehicles to brag about. I thought we were talking stock or stock + $2,000... I think that Jeep arguement used to hold a lot of clout. I still respect them for everywhere they have been, but just because blood letting used to work so well, doesn't mean that it is the best thing to do for someone today.

Corey

iTrader: (1)

Sonoran Steve S too.
Many have taken IFS to the Extreme.

And speaking of Troy, you will see pics later of him at the TTORA takeover.
Now there is some pretty serious rock/ledge crawling there, and a few IFS rigs were doing it.

http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/forum...-takeover.html

stormin94

why does this make me a hypocrit??? i bought USED, so none of my $$$ went to Japan. If I was lesbian, I'd probably drive a Subaru. If I was gay, I'd probably drive a pink Miata, but if I were Metrosexual, I'd drive an FJ.....JK...by the way that was a joke...please excuse my verbal diahrea. As a Toyota owner, I enjoy my car. Thats all that counts for me. I'm not going for the whole internet tough guy thing here. I've got my opinion, and you've got yers.

TRunner

Yeah, but I've got my opinion and I drive it. You've got your opinion and you drive the opposite. That doesn't make sense to me.... In fact, it makes me want to put on a some deodorant and dance around the house like nature boy!

I'm only kidding...

But honestly, you are asking to find a muscle car made in Japan? What kind of arguement are you heading for? I don't get it... and all the American made stuff... I was just in a Toyota dealership and saw that their cars are more American made then most other vehicles. Somethign like over 70-80%. Tally up the Ford and Chevy parts and you will find just where your American money is going, to a whole bunch of other countries running sweat shops and a couple deep American pockets. All the while Toyota is creating jobs in America for American people. (and those that sneek into our country since we pamper them over our own citizens)

AxleIke

Aparantly americans don't like american cars. Toyota is number 1. Wonder why that could be?

I'd rather line the pockets of a rich japanese man than a rich american man any day. Why? Because the rich japanese man is building trucks and cars that last and work. The rich american man is stealing my money and leaving me with a decroded piece of crap.

As for jobs, there are actual data that say that Toyota employs more americans than Ford, GM or Chevy. Toyota builds new plants in america while the others are firing people right and left. Hmmmm. Interesting.

Tacoclimber

X-AWDriver

What's really bad is that Toyota can build quality autos that are fully made in america and made by americans but the domestic guys can't match Toyota qulaity with american workers.
Honda also succeeds in this too.

Are the big 3 just using inferior materials and bad designs? Or what?

Can't wait til GM starts importing "domestic" cars made in CHINA!!