Diesel_Freak

I want them to make a retr0 1st gen Runner removable top and all.

Mostly I want the d4-d in something closer to my Gen1's (Runner) size.

I always find it funny when I talk to guys and they claim: "Americans need big trucks cause we haul things and build things...blah blah blah..." Oddly enough I belive that the rest of the world also hauls things and builds houses but they don't need a super-duty to do it. The majority of these POS behemoths out on the road are some a$$hole foreman's truck who just want's to look tough at the construction site and doesn't even work. Americans are all about image: the image of freedom (we don't realy hav ethat) the image of power, and the image of toughness. But mostly were spoiled little brats who think it's our right to have gas guzzlers and toys that cost millions of dollars. Americans are stupid plain and simple.

Cheers

Dave

Octane

They arent as simple as gasser. With a diesel you have twice as much oil to change, you have to plug them in in the winter and you have a turbo that will eventually need replacement. Not to mention the fact that diesels cost signifigantly more to purchase.
The reason big rigs last so long is because all they see are highway miles. Look at diesel pickup trucks. The ones that see stop and go driving and short trips dont last anywhere near as long.
Sorry, I'll stick to a gasser. Inexpensive, easy to maintain and relatively hassle-free.

dijlop

alright. what if toyota made an "entirely" "off road" vehicle?

insane concept, yet... look at the audience. if they came out with a truck that could perform off-road, but also retained an ability to drive on road long distances.(no one wants a vehicle that needs a trailer.)

heres what i want. 3.7L diesel or a 4.2L gasser, 5spd manual, 4wd (shifter stick of course), arb air lockers front and rear, 33 inch a/t's, big ol rear end, solid front axle, premium shocks all around, wide wheel base, narrower body, slightly longer, bigger ext cab, sliders, and all the other little goodies that you would expect in a true off-road beast.

just an idea. shoot, make it look nice, but dont spend too much on the design. forget carpets and leather and fake wood dashes. plastic all around. dont need the power windows and power seats either. make this a basic little truck, dont even give it options.

sell it for like 15-17K, and BAM, you've got a world-wide bestseller, eh?

Diesel_Freak

BUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... You don not know what you are talking about... Plain and simple.

Diesels are about as simple as an internal combustion can get: they are fired by compression, there's no distributor etc. you can literaly run them under water with just a snorkel (I've done it) and the service life for a standard Cummins motor in a civilian/consumer market truck is around 300k. As much as I love my 22Re, the only thing more reliable is a diesel motor (unless it's a Ford 6.0).

I know this isn't eactly an automobile example, but our water pump system in Australia was a series of diesel motors hooked to pumps. You literaly cranked them over and away they'd run with just a gravity feed fuel tank. To do the same with even the most simple gas motor would require at the very least some electrical wiring harness and would never last out in the elements.

But hey you're right diesel's are complicated garbage, who wants one... You're the eact reason we don't get diesel's in NA: Cause most Americans are too stupid to actualy know what they are, they just think they're smoky, slow and smell bad.

You sir are an idiot...

Cheers and No Worries

Dave

Victor

I thought they called that one the Tacoma. Or am I wrong that the Tacoma has grown to T100 size now that the Tundra is a real fullsize.

I don't see a lot of these suggestions happening. Let's be realistic. Toyota sells thousands of trucks to people who are happy to just have a "sporty" look. Those trucks never see dirt, much less plywood or 2x4's thrown in the back. The most they may haul is some groceries.

I'd love to see a full boxed frame, crew cab short bed with the sizing similar to the 89-95 trucks. Diesel? Mercedes and VW can't keep them on the lots right now so it only makes sense that the diesels marketed everywhere else would sell like hotcakes here. Imagine the above truck with 25-30 MPG?

I don't think Toyota will ever sell a solid axle again. That's what Marlin and All Pro are for.

Avsfreak1234

I like this thread!! toyota better be listening

Squeebs

I want an 87-style 4-banger.


With the TRD package.

CJM

No the T100 is the size the old tundra is and still bigger than the new taco.

Mike Shull

Too much hassle and work maintaining a diesel!? But why....there are no plugs, wires, coils....just an air filter to change and a sweet engine that runs half the rpm's, gets twice the millage and goes for 400K miles +!.....That can run on farm grown fuel......where do you go wrong?....oh and enough power for those who need.....

They should bring in their D4-D to their V8 turbo diesel....and make the top come off the ?FJ? What the heck?......an ok keep some of the gasses for those who like the performance....or lack of.

Diesels have changed folks...just like the gassers.....like a good watch...just set them and they will run for ever.

http://www.petitiononline.com/TOYD4D/

Potomacduck

I know this will tick some folks off, but I'll say it anyway. I've owned 5 diesel vehicles, I've been around and owned marine diesels for years. I have a lot of experience with them.

Folks hear things about diesels and automatically think they are better engines for light trucks. Well, sometimes they are and most times they aren't. There are tons of misconceptions out there.

Longevity: some diesel engines under some conditions last a long time. Light diesel engines which are under the demand of revving up and down their power band last no longer than a gas engine. Diesels depend on their greater internal mass for inertia and torque. Thats why they last forever in big rigs, because they are driven at the same RPM for hours on end. BUt that's not how we drive our trucks, we shift 100 times a day just driving to and from work. That's what a gas engine does VERY well, because of it's light internal mass. I have a '99 4Runner with 212,000 which runs perfectly and doesn't burn a drop of oil. It will easily make it to 300,00 at which time most folks have gotten rid of their vehicle.

Maintenance: Less maintenance? Cheaper? Wanna buy a bridge? Let's take a popular diesel we're all familiar with, the Ford Powerstroke and the GM Diesel. Did you know that in the first 100,000 miles, the ROUTINE maintenance cost is TWICE that of it gasoline cousin? BTW, those are Ford figures, GM is about the same. But how can that be? It's doesn't have sparkplugs, etc. Well, there's more to maintaining a diesel than just changing oil. A lot more. Most people refuse to believe this.

Fuel economy: "diesels get twice the mileage of gas engines." Pure unadulterated ignorance, plain and simple. Diesels get about 15-20% better fuel economy than a gas engine. That will never offset the price a diesel engine costs over a gas engine. The Ford diesel is a $6,800 option and the GM diesel is a $7,200 option. I can't imagine what Toyota will charge. Do an amoritization schedule on the upfront cost plus the higher maintenance cost and the math will show that you will never come close to breaking even; in fact you are losing money.

People refuse to believe this when I tell them. They just don't want to believe it. If you need a diesel for towing a horse trailer, they have no equal. But the thought of a light diesel engine being more economical is pure falacy.

Greg_Canada

I agree that it costs more to maintain a diesel... but on my cousins f350 with 42" tires and some mods (tractor trailer tires not mudders), he get 18-19mpg... our buddy has one very similarly set up, but a v10 gas, and it's lucky to get 8mpg...

aviator

Potomaduck brings up several valid points, however VW seems to have worked out some of the bugs re:reving up and down on their tiny [1L and change] diesel and they seem to make excellent fuel economy...
I agree that most people do not keep their vehicles long enough to amortise the purchase premium over the term of ownership, but there are larger issues such as the potential for a smaller enviromental footprint with the diesel vs. the gas engine.
Furthermore Toyota has been building and refining small truck diesels for years whereas the big three have either tried to adapt medium truck engines [dodge/ford] or dieselize a gas engine [gm]. In recent years the big three have begun to refine their engines but they are, I feel, still years behind the Japanese and Europeans with regard to small automotive diesel technology.
So far as pricing goes it is to be hoped that Toyota would make the diesel an affordable option.
Prost Aviator

Jay351

oh and another thing, Factory elockers front and rear

Swansen

http://rav4world.com/index/diesel.html Yeah, i'll agree with all said, but they need to make a v6 model of this engine, like Mercedes CRD engine, that would be amazing.

Potomacduck

Aviator,

Good points also, VW produced some of the best small diesels ever made, but they were installed in very light cars. They were asked to do a very different job that an engine installed in a Tundra or 4Runner. A diesel in a truck is another matter entirely, the requirements are much different.

Yes, Mercedes made some fine 6 cylinder diesels but they overcame the engineering problems of light diesel engines by using extemely high quality metalurgy in their parts. The costs of these engines is cloaked in the already high price of their vehicles. The maintenence on these Mercedes engines was and is absolutely appalling and the parts prices will keep you awake at night.


As far as a smaller environmental footprint, I'm not an environmetalist by any stretch, but even the cleanest diesel cannot compare with todays gas engines. Yes, todays diesel are a lot cleaner but do a search on how much Nitrgenous compounds and soot a diesel emits and you'de be shocked.

If we had less restrictive EPA requirements like Australia, then a lot of things would be different, but that's a topic for another discussion.

The bottom line is this. I love diesels, but most folks have a misconception of what they will and won't do. There's a ton of bad info out there that makes folks think that they last twice as long as a gas engine, get double the mileage, and require less maintenence. It's just not true.

Having said all of this, if Toyota comes out with a diesel, I hope my neighbor buys one so I can tinker with it!

Victor

Ummm, the latest emission standards for diesels (07) are just as tight as gas engines. As a matter of fact, given all the emissions equipment the diesels are probably putting out less from the tailpipe.

I have a VW TDi. Great car. I get about 50 MPG on the highway and high 30's in the city. It has great torque from about 1500 RPM all the way to redline. The turbo is a variable blade design, that is, the blades move to provide the most boost from the exhaust stream at all RPMs. I have an auto so I don't have all the acceleration the 5 speed guys do but I am very happy with it. European companies have been building low emission diesels for some time now - in most countries over there diesels make up the majority of engines.

We have been very slow to adopt ULSD fuel and our companies resisted O2 sensors and catalytic converyters for diesels. I'm sure Toyota sees that and has evaluated the market. I waited 5 years for ULSD and my car was built to run that from day one. Not a single pump in the country had it. What was the best alternative? Biodiesel. That is something our country could make a lot of. Its homegrown, cleaner burning, and engines last a lot longer on it.

BTW - there are people who have gotten over 500000 miles on their TDi's already. To say that a diesel wears faster due to revving and shifting is crap. You are comparing older low RPM diesels to gas and not even considering high RPM/low emission diesels.

Potomacduck

Victor, Yes the light VW engines are great engines. I owned a 79, 81 and 89 VW's with diesel engines in them.

But comparing a light car with a truck or SUV is apples and oranges. Want proof? When VW came out with an SUV, the Toureg, they also produced a diesel model. Did they put a 4 or 6 cylinder in it? No. Why? because it would lack power. VW offered a diesel Toureg, but to make up for the lack of power in a heavy SUV the installed a really cool 10 cylinder Diesle TDi. Neat, huh? It was about and 8 grand upgrade for the privilege of owning an SUV with a diesel.

As far as emissions. You are wrong, today's diesel emission standards are different from gas engine requirements. Here's a quote from the EPA's website:

"Through model year 2007, a manufacturer may opt to certify diesel engines for Medium Duty Passenger Vehicles through the heavy-duty diesel engine requirements instead of the entire vehicle throught the light-duty regulations."

They grant this exception because even the cleanest diesels are still polluters far and above their gas cousins. If you still don't believe me, go down to a state emmsion testing station and have them stick a sensor in the tailpipe of a modern diesel. The levels of NMOG, CO2, NOx, will be far higher than that of a gas engine.

I know I'm goring a sacred ox here, but I've owned and worked on diesels all my life. It's not crap or BS, I've got 30+ years working on and with diesels.

SEAIRESCUE

ULSD is here and mandated by the EPA. New diesels MUST operate on ONLY ULSD and have particulate traps that require cleaning out plus they must use ULS motor oils. The days of turning up injector pumps is out.

Diesels are designed for torque at very low RPM's. That offers intrinsic fuel economy. The internals are forged parts to handle the stresses. Properly maintained and driven, you can get 1,000,000 miles from a diesel. Variable vane turbochargers make these engines very efficient yet powerful. A properly geared diesel that is not loaded will yield respectable mileage.

If you want wide band horsepower, get a gas engine.

TOYOTA, clean up your act in the design department. Give us the diesels and 4 door cabs like you sell to the rest of the world. I would like a straight axle option thank you. FIX your GD head gasket problems. Honda is eating your lunch so wake up. BTW, offer me a 4D HiLux with a 6 speed 4 cyl turbo diesel with no plastic crap on the outside any time.

End of rant....

Potomacduck

Check out some of the Australian websites. Toyota sells their diesels down there and they are extremely popular.

One of the most popular models I found was the Sahara, You can get it in a rather plain jane model but with a nice interior. You can get it with a manual transmission, a 4.5 liter turbo diesel which produces 151 kw (about 200 hp) it would be a little slower than the 381 hp Tundra.

You can buy one of these diesels for $58,000 U.S.

I'm not sure how much shipping would be to America.