tc

BS - they both make x psi boost over ambient.

The supercharger is controlled by the size of the pulley and the turbo by the wastegate, both of which are easily adjustable for altitude compensation.

b.miller123

^^ I have to agree with you on this one, a supercharger is just as adjustable as a turbo, if not more (a turbo can only spin as fast as the exhaust going through it)

And for the comment about turbo's not limited to engine speed:

Are you saying that turbos are putting out the maximum boost that a particular system needs at idle? And that everything else (any increase in boost pressure) after the exhaust volume/speed increases (usually happens with an increase in rpm, aka engine speed) is just sent out the waste-gate,

in theory: at idle you are making 10psi, which is all you want, and when you are accelerating and the engine is at 3k rpm you've got 20psi, but half of that is getting sent out the waste-gate?

and for the altitude part: yes they might be effected differently, but as stated, both are adjustable

olharleyman

i have, they were made by Detroit Diesel, most popular models were the 8v-71 and 8v-92 and some other models i cant think of right now, they were 2-stroke diesels but even with the blower they were considered naturally aspirated, the blower was needed just to run, the later models had turbos and blowers but still were NA, at high RPM the turbo had a bypass port to bypass the blower to give the engine extra air

THERE WAS ALSO THE 12V 92 THAT RANT THE SAME SET UP AND THEY WERE MONSTERS BUT FUEL GUZZLERS ALSO AND 1000 A HOLE TO REBUILD BUT A HELL OF A MOTOR WITH A 13 OR 18 SPEED BEHIND THEM. THEY WERE ALSO ON THE CUMMINS MOTORS IN THE EARLY 70'S UP TILL THE 80'S YOU COULD FIND THEM PULLING THE HILLS OF THE WEST COAST FROM BC TO MEXICO

X-AWDriver

Hmm,I'm going by what I made at sea level in Texas which was 19psi and i made that at 5800ft with zero changes but I did lose about a half second in the 1/4 mile. My friend on the other hand was making 7psi of boost at the same track same day in Texas with his SC'd Integra Type R but at our home track it wouldn't make any more than 4psi since the motor had less oxygen to play with.

Supechargers will still lose about a second up here with zero changes to anything,tubos can compensate for altitude better with no haslles.

Now I could just adjust the boost controller for more boost but I was pushing my fuel system anyway but up here I had a little more margin for error. My friend on the other hand would've had to change the pulley which was just more money and time with changing it.

I had a datalogger and just tuned my AFC for zero knock and maximum timing advance during WOT runs.



Quote:^^ I have to agree with you on this one, a supercharger is just as adjustable as a turbo, if not more (a turbo can only spin as fast as the exhaust going through it)

And a SC is limited to how fast the engine is turning but you can adjust a $50 manual boost controller to make any possible boost the engine and fuel system can handle. You don't need more exhaust to create more boost,you just need a larger wastegate and keeping it closed will create alot of boost if the turbo is big enough. Of course the better flowing the engine can create better flow but with most stock cars a basic turbo setup will be enough to blow up your motor,at least a SC can't accidently get boost creep ( Wastegate not big enough to evacuate exhaust fast enough) and blow your motor up.

It's been awhile removed from a turbo car so I might have left a few key points out but feel free to get me up to date if I'm wrong as I'm not trying to be a know it all.

X-AWDriver

Hmm,I'm going by what I made at sea level in Texas which was 19psi and i made that at 5800ft with zero changes but I did lose about a half second in the 1/4 mile. My friend on the other hand was making 7psi of boost at the same track same day in Texas with his SC'd Integra Type R but at our home track it wouldn't make any more than 4psi since the motor had less oxygen to play with.

Now I could just adjust the boost controller for more boost but I was pushing my fuel system anyway but up here I had a little more margin for error. My friend on the other hand would've had to change the pulley which was just more money and time with changing it.

I had a datalogger and just tuned my AFC for zero knock and maximum timing advance during WOT runs.



Quote:^^ I have to agree with you on this one, a supercharger is just as adjustable as a turbo, if not more (a turbo can only spin as fast as the exhaust going through it)

I can turn by turbo down to stock boost for emossions testing and then leave the place and pump it back up to 16psi for the street and then 19psi for the track in a matter of seconds and if I had a Electronic controller I'd never even leave the driver's seat.

And a SC is limited to how fast the engine is turning but you can adjust a $50 manual boost controller to make any possible boost the engine and fuel system can handle. You don't need more exhaust to create more boost,you just need a larger wastegate and keeping it closed will create alot of boost if the turbo is big enough. Of course the better flowing the engine can create better flow but with most stock cars a basic turbo setup will be enough to blow up your motor,at least a SC can't accidently get boost creep ( Wastegate not big enough to evacuate exhaust fast enough) and blow your motor up.

It's been awhile removed from a turbo car so I might have left a few key points out but feel free to get me up to date if I'm wrong as I'm not trying to be a know it all.

rentedmule

you boost the same PSI at altitude, it's just that the air is less dense and contains less O2 hence you make less power. on the other hand you're less likely to have detonation issues at altitude and can adjust your boost and timing to make up for the power loss.

you can't just change pullies to run more boost on a S/C - you're very limited as to how much you can adjust your boost with most blowers. headunits have factory spec'd tolerances and if you spin them beyond those tolerances the bearings give out, the impeller hits the casing @ 40K rpms and all the tiny shards get sucked into your engine. i can post pics of the fried/busted bearings that came out of my blower if you want proof

and why the heck do people keep saying you can't intercool with a supercharger??? it's just a matter of plumbing some intake tubing, what's so difficult? I can post pics of dozen's of intercooled S/C setups if you want?

on the turbo lag subject, the turbo 4.3 guys I know are making full boost (20 psi+) at just over 2000 rpms. if you have an automatic trans with the proper torque converter you're pretty much in boost as soon as the truck starts to move

Adam F

How do you put an intercooler on a TRD supercharger? The charger bolts right onto the intake manifold.

tc

Correct.

Maybe a better way to explain it is, that the boost (pressure over ambient) is the same, but the absolute intake manifold pressure is lower because the ambient pressure is lower at altitude.

The % O2 is the same at altitude, just the pressure/quantity of air is less.

tc

The Ford/Rousch superchargers do it - there's a little "radiator" in between the head and the supercharger.

Greedy

So does the new TRD S/C for the 4.0 1-GR. It's a roots blower like the one for the 5vz but has a air to water cooler right before the air goes into the lower intake. Works pretty good judging from the rwhp numbers the new tacos are putting down...

blinkybill04

this doesnt directly relate, but this site http://homemadeturbo.com/ is kinda fun to look at. havent scoured it in about a year since i wrecked my civic (its mostly honda stuff), but they used to have a 5.0 mustang on there that had a great red neck turbo on it using the stock manifolds inverted.... i'm new to the Toys but i'd love to see pics of someone doing something similar with a taco or runner.

Greedy

Here's my runner engine bay as it was untill about 2 months ago:



I broke a rod and am swapping a new motor in along with new manifolds, crank pulley and some powder coated parts....

X-AWDriver

There was an intercooler for the Jackson Racing SC for Hondas but I can't remember the price for it. My friend's Type R was only pushing an altitude corrected 7psi and laying down about 220 to the wheels which was a 50hp increase over stock (and could run with last gen Camaros) and he had plans for the IC and a 10psi pulley but kids have a way of changing those plans.


We had a friend who was a Honda mechanic give us a hand and it overall was pretty simple install. The big mod was the addition of an AEM EMS which completely replaces the factory ECU and required a couple hours on the dyno to get the bugs worked out but that thing controlled everything and would've been used for those future plans.

If you look closely to the backside of the engine you can see the SC there.


A Kamikaze header,Thermal Research 3" catback and fuel mods round out the supporting cast.

This Integra was by no means a 1/4 mile killer but coupled with it's tight stock suspension and sticky Falkens and the SC's instant power pulling out of corners made this car pretty fun to drive but it also required the driver's attention since it could get away from you real quick. Easily the best FWDer probably ever in the handling department in stock trim.

He sold it a few years ago with only 30k on the odo for almost what he paid for it brand new.

j-man

greedy - what are those vacuum taps for above the port fueler?

blinkybill04

Hey greedy thats freaking sweet!

liferunner2

TC, the %O2 in the air at altitude is actually less than that at sea level because O2 is a heavier molecule than some of the other constituents of air and actually "settles" into lower lying areas. This coupled with the fact that there is less air overall is one reason why climbers need to carry 02 tanks at extreme altitudes, and why many high altitude mountain lakes have lower levels of O2 in them than their counterparts at sea level.

Chris

Greedy

Mapecu2, AIC x6, boost controller, wastegate, boost gauge, FPR, IAC....I think that's all.....

rentedmule

very nice looking set-up greedy. I'm hoping my next rig will be a S/C'd 3.4 taco, I tried but I couldn't afford one before I got my sonoma. here's a pic of my setup - sorry for the blasphemous chevy content! There's also a progressive meth-injection system on it now

j-man

ahh, forgot about that - cool. Real clean looking. Thx.

tc

Your truck is on meth?