Toyo-Mama

hey there gang... I just got word that my Sunday driver ('95 V-6 3.o) has a thrown rod and bearings. I had it in to an oil change place (yeah, I know... but I'm an ole paramedic with a bad back, and it beats laying under the vehicle in these cold Michigan winters) and the filter wasn't seated properly. They tell me that something inherently wrong in the engine caused the filter failure, (which shows an obviously faulty seal) while I maintain that the filter gave way. Is there any way for me to definitively test and prove that my engine was NOT at fault? Certainly I can't check compression... or my oil sending unit, etc.. and obviously they know that.
I'm reasonably mechanically inclined, but not to the point of doing an engine swap. And certainly not the 3.4 conversion that I've seen on here. The real kicker is that I owe $6000 on the car loan, for a vehicle that needs an estimated $5000 in repairs.
Do I sue? Do I solicit help and wrench on it myself? Anybody looking to purchase? Any legal advice? As a single mom, I simply don't have the resources. Any and all feedback would be greatly appreciated.
I've spoken with a lawyer (once), gotten 3 different estimates from 2 different mechanics, taken many pictures, documented everything in writing, and they have officially tested the filter. I'm not big on the sandwich board approach, they aren't readily forthcoming with additional names, but I can write a letter to the editor...
Please help!

habanero

Can't help much. I know we've swapped a few engines on Jiffy Lube's dime because of their mistakes but I don't know how the victims got them to do it. On those the fault was very obvious-an oil drain plug fell out, antifreeze used instead of oil, oil filter fell off.
How high up the quick-lube chain of command did you go?

surf4runner

threaten with lawsuits over THEIR negligence, and then get a lawyer if not resolved. letters are a very good idea (be firm)!
how soon after the change (mileage and days) did the failure occur? this should help back up your claims.

todadave

Nothing in the engine can make the oil filter seal "malfunction". All it does is filter the oil. When i change my oil i always take a little oil and put it on the seal. it makes it easier to "torque" it down corectly and keeps the seal wet so it doesnt crack. Get a lawer to write you up a law suit and shove it up their A$$. Their technitions should be certified mechanics.Your lawer should find out who changed the oil and find out if he is ASE certified. If hes not, you cant loose.

$0.02 Dave

Toyo-Mama

It was 6 days after the oil change... I anm struggling to o higher up on the corp ladder... considering many angles of attacks. Would appreciate any and all suggestions. I'll call the atty again today. Hard to swallow that ut it sure is looking necessary... Thanks for the input.
Anybody else got stories about a spike in engine pressure that would cause this to happen? Anybody? And how to definitively RULE OUT my engine causing it?

dusty98

If possible have Toyota verify the cause, that should add credibility to your case.

Did you have any low oil warning lights or any indication of a problem before the rod knock? Notice any spots in the driveway, weird smells, etc.?
Document that you didn't or if you did why you couldn't address it immediately. Obviously if you're losing oil and doing 70mph on the highway, you have little time to react.

After you have all that, get with corporate and give them an ultimatium to respond by a certain date in the near future. If they don't make good, get a good attorney & take them to task. Make sure they pay for all the attorney fees, loaner vehicle costs, etc.

Good luck!!!

Toyo-Mama

Did you have any low oil warning lights or any indication of a problem before the rod knock? Notice any spots in the driveway, weird smells, etc.?

The pressure blew all of a sudden... I did hear a vague hiss, and actually had smoke up the steering column for a breif minute, which called my attention to the gauge cluster, which all looked fine... initially. I started flipping switches, adjusting the tilt, etc to see if maybe I shorted something out but couldn't find any cause for the smoke. Less that a mile later, my oil pressure gauge dropped. a half mile after that, I was in my driveway witnessing the leak from the filter gasket. We took the old filter off, put a new filter on, added oil, thought he was a save until the next mornign off to work, there was the rod knock. Worsening as the day wore on, and less than twenty miles later, it was knocking even at idle. Progressively worse. So I think the bearings are spun too, correct?
My lawyer tells me that I have no legal recourse unless a mechanic is willing to testify that the loss of oil is directly due to THE FILTER BEING INSTALLED IMPORPERLY. And I don't know anybody who will make that broad statement. I guess I need to eat it know and hope to appeal to their sense of decency. Might this be something TRD would care to hear about? Might they champion my cause? I'm not afraid to play my single mom trump card, for whatever it may be worth.
I'm open to any and all suggestions. Right bnow, the best I've got is to swap out the engine myself. I really don't have any other options.
Anybody feeling chivalrous?

Paul H.

You may have blown it when you went ahead and changed the filter. What you should have done was get it towed immediately to the oil change place and made them do it and acknowleged thier mistake. Did you take any pictures of the filter installed wrong? That would have helped your case.

Toyo-Mama

I got pics of the gasket showing it pulled away from the filter casing and when it was tested, I was told that some spike in pressure within the engine itself caused it to blow. No way to prove that it was actually installed improperly. And no way to prove (now) that there was anything faulty within the engine that caused the blow out, now that the bearings and rod is bad.

Anybody else have this happen? A huge spike in oil pressure? And as a novice, I suppose it'd be best to replace rather than rebuild? Its driveable now, but for how long?

maxpower_hd

I've never heard of a spike in oil pressure. I am not familiar with the 3.0 but the 22RE has a mechanical oil pump. It is vertually impossible for it to spike. It is not like it can suddenly get too much voltage or something. It simply works off of a gear that is run by the crank. The faster you go, the faster it goes. Even if it did "spike" for some unknown reason, it would have to spike to a level that would blow out the gasket. That would have to be an awful lot of pressure. You shouldn't have too much trouble finding a mechanic to help you there.

Mileage will make a big difference as well. If your truck has 230,000 miles, you'll be hard pressed to convince a judge that the spun bearing was caused soley from the leak. On the other hand, if you only had say 65,000, that's aonother story.

Lastly, I would say that it definatey spun a bearing. You could try to find a used motor but I know from experience that it can be difficult at best. A rebuilt long block is another option but can be pricey.

I have heard of these problems form the quick lube places often. I always change my own oil. It's sad but some of those guys are very young and have very little experience. Some of them flat out don't care. I would guess that next time you'll be laying on your back in the snow doing it yourself. I have a garage now but what I used to do before was change it in November on one of the last failry warm days. Then change it near spring on one of the first warmer ones. It's not the end of the world if you go a little over the scheduled change as long as the levels are kept up and the rest of the changes are done on time.

I would go up the corporate ladder as far as you can until you get some satisfaction. Try talking with your local newspaper. And definately talk to Toyota. I would guess they would try to help you in an effort to get you future business.

You could file a small claims suit as well. It only cost like $15 to file and they may not even send anyone to represent them. They are likely hoping you just go away and take your lumps. I would think that they would settle once they get a legal notice.

Good luck and let us know what happens.

mt_goat

Sorry to hear of your problem. My friendly Toyota mechanic has an engine (3.4) in his bay right now that had the samething happen, quick lube place followed by total loss of oil and spun bearing. Have you asked your insurance company if by some chance you were covered for something like this, long shot I know, but maybe? Also call the lien holder (they also have a stake in this since you now owe more than the truck is worth) for some possible help, if nothing else maybe some legal help.

I wish you weren't so far away, I'm pulling a good 3.0 out right now to put in a supercharged 3.4. I've been keeping an eye out for a local 4runner in need of an engine to put it in.

Yoda

Do you have any pix of the filter? Was there only one gasket? sometimes the old gasket will stick to the engine, the new filter won't screw on correctly, gasket blows out (usually way sooner than 1 week). What was the part # of the filter...was it correct for your truck?

Toyo-Mama

Lots of pics of the filter, not double gasketed, and obvioulsy blown. Is there anything else that could cause a spike? Some clog on down the line? The 3.0 only has 101k on it, just barely broken in...

Mt Goat; I'd glady take that 3.0 off your hands... 'cept now I've got no way to get to Oklahoma, unless I bring my old dune runner! Will you tell us all about the conversion? Its something I am consideringif only because it may be more readily available...
I really appreciate your adamant denial about the possibility of a spike that high. I've got two Toyota mechanics (dealership) that say"well, I suppose it could happen..." so maybe I just need to keep looking.
Keep the advice coming. I'm all ears!

Toyo-Mama

P.S. Yes, there was a time that I tended to the oil changes and what-not on my own... but that was many years ago. My biggest project was HELPING with a timing chain and gears in my Olds 350 Rocket. On a good day, I still do my own tune-ups, but I believe I likely have lost my edge. My daughter, age 16, bless her heart, is all for doing the engine swap ourselves. Quite frankly, it scares me. I have a respectable tool collection and feel confident in that regard, but yes, I am a girl...

My bank tells me they don't care what I do, so long as I make the payments on time, all $6,000 of them, and the insurance company says "Only if we can prove vandalism." Toyota doesn't sound interested unless it is the fault of the engine (which I doubt) and maybe not even then. And my laywer says there is no way to prove faulty workmanship. How is it that they can place the burden of proof on me?

How is it that I have to let the system gobble me up? I pulled my daughter out of the Christian schools to finance this vehicle, just 6 months ago. We're fundraising for her youth group to go on mission trips to Brazil and Missouri. I'm desperate for an encouraging word.

*heavy sigh

mt_goat

Here is some good info on the 3.4 swap: http://www.offroadsolutions.com/technicalarticles.htm
The swap is not cheap.

I had a problem with a BMW 328i blowing the oil pan gasket (I'm talking 3 times in one year) and the BMW tech did some test for excess pressure. IIRC he said it can over-pressurize if the ventalation tube gets blocked.

Toyo-Mama

and is that something that could be readily identified? Or definitively ruled out?

mt_goat

Yes, in my case the BMW tech had to order the SST to do the test but he said after doing the test it was ok.

Toyo-Mama

Hey gang, thanks for the encouraging words. I plan to go down there on Friday and state my claim, giving them an opportunity to make it right before I wrack up a ton of legal fees. They have had ample opportunity thus far, but of course have yet to own up to the fact that the filter must have not been tight. Why else would it fail at 30 mph, if it tested at over 100psi?

So anyhow, that's the latest. Keep those thoughts coming. I need to pursue every angle on this. Appreciate the feedback!

midiwall

In general, given your circumstances, yes. I would certainly replace rather than rebuild. You'll get a warranty and basically a new engine.

I've used these guys - highly recommended:

http://orientengine.com/

Yoda

[/QUOTE] I had a problem with a BMW 328i blowing the oil pan gasket (I'm talking 3 times in one year) and the BMW tech did some test for excess pressure. IIRC he said it can over-pressurize if the ventalation tube gets blocked.[/QUOTE]

This sounds like the PCV vent. Overpressure in the crankcase. That would NOT cause the oil filter to blow a gasket.

Only problem they might say you drove it after you saw the smoke.

Can you post a pic of the filter? With part ##?