diableri

Hello everyone,

First, thank you so much for the fantastic resource that is this forum!

I've spent the last few weeks reading lots of forums regarding my favorite trucks trying to answer my own questions and really have just made it more difficult so I'm turning to you guys. This is the best of the forums from everything I've read. My searches have turned up a few things, mostly that what I really want is an Aussie Land Cruiser I can't have here in CA.

Here's the question so nobody has to slog through what will be a long post if they choose not too but still want to offer advice from the title, although I hope the background helps! Thank you to anyone that tries to help me.

I need some pro advice on choosing a year range and platform for a project I plan on keeping for many years and putting hundreds of thousands of miles on. As the title says a truck vs 4Runner vs a Land Cruiser.

Here's my background and intended use:

-I live in central CA (so it needs to stay CA legal) and plan to use the vehicle in the western US. Mostly high desert.
-I'm not a rock crawler and doubt I will ever be but sand/desert wash/flash mud and mild off road use is needed.
-I want to tow a small trailer with two dirt bikes, a small toolbox, extra tires, gas and camping gear (if not a truck, then most will go in the bed). Usually only two people but the possibility of a third or fourth (however cramped) would be a bonus but not required).
-I would be doing frequent car camping out of it and driving it deep into BLM land. These spots are sometimes hundreds of miles from my home one way. So the vehicle will be driven for 300-600 miles round trip too and from off road trips.
-Starting budget is up to $8000. Likely investment of about $2k-$5k a year.
-My heart tells me that I want a 60 or 80 Land Cruiser, but I want to make sure the reliability can equal the trucks and 4Runners.
-Single most important thing, reliability in the middle of the desert. Yes, I will take care of it.

I've built street rods for years. Everything from a 23' TBucket to 70's muscle cars. From a few thousand dollar projects to $40k cars. I would like to do some of the work on this vehicle, but not all of it. I won't be rebuilding/replacing the engine/trans unless it's a very simple/older one but I do not mind paying a pro to do it right. I want it to be bullet proof like all my stock Toyota pick ups of the past (three over the years with well over 200k miles each, two 22REs and one 90's V6).

If you made it to the end of this post, thank you so much and I greatly appreciate any help, advice or direction you can provide.

tinigunner11

iTrader: (1)

alright. a lot to take into consideration when answering a big post like this. I am going to try and do my best to help. you are going to hear a lot of "it's all personal preference" and in most cases that's true. you need to look at a few things
1. will it fit all your gear, people and sleeping arrangements?
2. will it get you to where you want/need to go?
3.gas mileage and reliability
4. optional appearance (you have to like the way it looks)

after taking all those few basic things into consideration which of the 3 vehicles fits your needs?

4runners are a great people and gear hauler, while still being very offroad capable. They get better gas mileage then the land cruisers. I personally have a 1st gen with a 22re and i am getting 18-21 unloaded. and they have a big enough cargo area to sleep in if needed.

the pickups are a great utility vehicle. the bed is great for hauling gear. tools, fire wood, ect. but you lose the seating for more than two. unless you get a crew cab which I'm not not familiar with anything past 1996 sorry. my family hasnt had any pickups since I was little so I cant really say much on the mpg there but im pretty sure its pretty close to the 4runner. 19-23ish? you could sleep in the bed with our without a topper depending on the year ifs or sfa its really up to you which is more capable depending on how to build it.

as for the land cruisers. my parents have a 01 lx470 (lexus' version of the cruiser just fancy) it has the 4.7 v8 in it and we get about 14-18 and with headers 16-20.
my family has owned fj40s-80s. they are just like the 4runner they are great people and stuff haulers. our lexus is stock and we have done light 4 wheeling and beach driving. very rarely getting stuck or having trouble getting or anything with the IFS.

and reliability for all vehicles is pretty straight forward. you take care of it and it will take you where you need. the 22re is pretty bullet proof but does have the occasional head gasket failure and is under powered. the 3vze has the head gasket problem as well and gets crappy gas mileage. and i dont know much about land cruiser engines im assuming that they had the 4.0 v8 in the fj80 but not sure.sorry just do your research there. and you also have the option of the 3.4 liter engine in the pickups and 4runners which i have only heard good things about.

it all comes down to this. We cant decide for you we can only help you decide and then help you along the path you choose thats the best I've got. good luck with your purchase and adventures! welcome to yotatech and im only 16 so wait for some of the other guys to respond and give you their opinions!

diableri

Thanks very much for the quick reply Tini!

I appreciate the feedback. I think I can get all our gear in all the variations, it's the towing with the less powerful 4s that I'm a bit concerned about and hoping some folks can offer some advice on since I don't have any experience or real knowledge about.

I like the idea of being able to pull the top off of a runner, the comfort of a cruiser and the convenience of a bed on the truck; hence the conundrum. I really like the look of the 60 series cruisers and very early 80 series cruisers. I hope some folks can comment on their high mileage use reliability over time. I think the 60s have a really good track record but not so sure about the 80s. Still reading about those.

The car camping will involve tents so sleeping in the vehicles is not a concern, sorry for the confusion. When I said car camping, it's just a term from my back packing days meaning that you don't go far from your vehicle.

Thanks again Tini!

toyota4x4907

Both LCs are gas hogs with their large i6 engines, plus theyre large, heavy vehicles. Im not sure if gas mileage is a concern for you, but either wont see much better than 16mpg hwy. Tacomas or 3rd gen 4runners with the v6 (3.4L) can both tow a considerable amount. The engines in the LCs arent that much more powerful than the 5vzfe.
FJ60s('80-'87)- 2f 4.2L i6 135hp/200 tq
FJ62s('88-'90)- 3fe 4.0L i6 155hp/ 220 tq
FZJ80 ('93-'98) 1fz-fe 4.5L i6 212 hp/ 275 tq
Taco/3rd gen 4Runner- 5vz-fe 3.4L v6- 190hp/ 220 tq

All these vehicles are known for their reliability. They have few issues.
LCs can be had with only an automatic from '88 onward, and only AWD from '90+. Tacomas can be had with manual hubs until '01, either manual or automatics. 3rd gen 4Runners can be had with manual trans until '01, all have ADD, and are AWD '00-'02.
LCs have solid front axles until '99, when they went to the 100 series. 80s are available with front and rear electronic differential lockers, '94-'98.
Tacomas and 3rd gen 4Runners are IFS, with an available rear differential E-locker on TRD/Limited models.
All have considerable towing rating. I believe the LC80 is around 6K, Tacos and 3rd gen 4Runners are 3K-5K.

IMO, stay away from older model trucks and 4Runners. As much as I like them, newer Toyotas are just as good, if not better. Older truck dont have very powerful engines, arent terrific on gas, and are small. Plus, they will all be 18 years old or older. They are plagued with problems, especially with the older ones, considering they will most likely have high miles.

BuzzardsGottaEat

Finding a LC for sale, in good shape can be harder than finding a Pickup or Runner and on top of that their only downside really is poor gas mileage. I don't know if you care about that or not but it's something to consider. If you're going to be vehicle camping a Runner is nice in that you can crawl from the seats, back to the sleeping/cargo area without leaving the vehicle if need be. Also, the rear seats can be taken out and stored for when you want to haul more gear but leave you the option of putting them back in if you want to bring some friends along to something. I prefer a pickup but if you want dry gear a topper is great, at which point a Runner is about the same thing. As far as year range goes, I like anything from 1981 to 2004 if it's been treated well ha Basically find a Toyota that hasn't been deprived of some TLC and you'll be fine. Just prioritize what is most important to you and it should help you make your decision. GL

diableri

Thank you guys!

I was planning to go completely through this vehicle mechanically no matter what just in order of need specific to whatever I ended up with. I am used to that in my toys anyway (street rods) so I'm not near as worried about the shape I find it in as someone else might be. I will actually feel better about it after I've replaced it. I tend to leave things better than new and you get used to never getting your money out of these kinds of projects (again, see street rods).

I honestly haven't given thought to anything past the early 90's any thought at all due to the above assumption replacing everything so there was no doubt about it's reliability. Was I on the wrong track thinking older and rebuild everything treating like a classic car so I know what I'm dealing with and get exactly what I want (as in color, interior, modifications etc without wasting perfectly good parts)? I just assumed I'd look for a beater and rebuild it all or have it rebuilt on the parts I wasn't comfortable with (really just the motor/vacuum/computer/drivetrain since I don't have experience with this tech).

I really don't care at all for the Tacomas. It's actually why I don't currently own a new Toyota truck, they lost me as a current customer at that point. When my last truck wore out (it was a 91 or 92 I think), they were no longer making the smaller trucks. If the Tacoma was alright, I'd just buy a new one. Course that wouldn't be near as much fun as building an older one either. However, if that's the best option for reliability... I might have to rethink things even if I don't like them.

toyota4x4907

1st generation Tacomas are just ever so slightly bigger than the earlier trucks. And, arguably, more reliable. And better mpg and power, regardless of what engine.

diableri

I'll take a look at a few this weekend, there are several for sale fairly cheap here locally. I just didn't like them at all when they first came out and was ready for a new truck. Maybe some time will have changed things. Thanks for the help!

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

I have used 22re and 5 speeds to pull my bass boat and it is a 16 foot fiberglass and heavy, cant think of the weight right off, but if you are pulling bikes and sleeping in the truck, I cant see you really pulling that much more weight. We have some hills where I live and a few of them can cause me to slow down, but on interstates and major highways I dont have any problem.

I wasnt into Toyotas when I hauled my two 3Wheelers motorcycles (250R) and that has been several years ago, but I was about into the same situation and rigged my trailer to haul alot of the camping gear as well. If I had those bikes, trailer, and camping gear today, I wouldnt be the least bit worried about pulling it with the 22re 5 speed. The trailer was a 5x10 ( could of been a little larger) if I recall right with a sigle axle 15inch rim and tire.

I have pulled my boat with a truck and a 4Runner so it is still going to be your preference of people hauler or equipment hauler. Either will do fine for what you are wanting to do.

Edit...If I am on a steep boat ramp I do have to use Low Range to get off of the ramp. If you are getting back into some steep hills and have a ways to drive that might would get old having to creep along the whole way once you got off of the highways to your camp site.

diableri

Thanks Terry! That was my main concern with the 22REs. I had two of them and loved them. Most of the time that I would be towing the bikes it would be to relatively easier spots and then the bikes would be doing the real work. The trailer I'm thinking of is just large enough for the two bikes side by side and a really small box in front of them so about what you are talking about.

v_man

I don't have much input on what vehicle is right for you , if one were clearly a better fit , you probably wouldn't be seeking advice ... So pretty good options all around .

I think I have pretty similar off road ambitions as you , not so much into the rock crawling , but more the exploring, get off the beaten path part of it .

Make sure to put the Mojave Road on your to do list of places to wheel when you get your rig . It is a 140 mile trail through the CA desert , really spectacular .

Be sure to check out the natural hot tubs on the east side of the Sierra too...

Hard to beat living' in CA sometimes !

donomite49

you could do what i did, get an older truck you like, drive it 180k miles and then do an engine upgrade to a 5vz engine and plan to drive it another few hundred thousand miles.

older yota with newer engine, can't go wrong.

Stetson_md

Id go with a pickup theyll hold more. And are a lil quicker off the line then a 4runner if need be you can put a topper and a couple seats in the bed to carry more people. They sell for more then the 4runner as well(down here)
If you get one of those tall aluminium toppers ya might still be able to put the dirt bikes in
As far as towing goes my dad used his 22r 5speed pickup to pull a 20foot bowrider made the truck pop wheelies
Until we weighted down the front end did about 50 down the highway with small hills

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

This ramp is steeper then it looks and to give you an idea of what I pull with it, 16ft fiberglass. I have pulled a 19ft bass boat on this same ramp and with it, I use low range. If I was going to pull the 19ft boat all the time, I would look into trailer brakes but otherwise it does fine. If you are going to do alot of heavy trailer pulling, set your truck and trailer up with electric brakes. Sooo nice to have trailer brakes like I have on my 3rd Gen Runner.


On some runners they came with a frame mounted reciever hitch. They are hard to find and just recently seen a runner that had one on it as well. The second gen runners seem to have them more available and the salvage yard tells me they arent interchangeable from first to second gen runners. I had a 91 Extended Cab with the same drive train and it pulled the same boat as well and did great.

If you do go with a runner, start looking now in the yards for the frame mount reciever assembly. I have never checked aftermarket so it might be more easily available. I like the factory mount and can get the hitch with the drop or rise that I need. I dont have a good pic of the entire assembly at this time but can get a pic of it later if needed.

diableri

Thanks again Terry! This is really encouraging since I spent the morning running around today looking at a few things locally and the Tacomas are out, just not for me. If I'm going larger than the older trucks and runners it's going to be a 60 or very early 80 series cruiser only and I'll do whatever it takes to make it better than new. I've driven all of these and liked them all; just having trouble making up my mind. The Tacomas I drove today felt like any other F150 or the like. Just not what I'm looking for.

Thanks to everyone for your help so far!

SCToy

Fj45 pickup or a solid axle swapped stout would be my first choices. Bigger cabs than smaller pickups, better looking and more unique. Harder to find, but would be worth it if you're lookin for a long term project.

BuzzardsGottaEat

x2 I had two second gens then jumped to my 93 Pickup.

If I ever get another Toyota Pickup other than this one for some reason it would be a first gen (01-04) most likely. I wouldn't rule them out. Very reliable, not all that much bigger than the earlier Pickups, its those 05+ you gotta watch out for

diableri

Sorry for the long term absence. I've been hunting all this time. It's been really hard not dumping a bunch of money into one of the really cool imports that one of those specialty companies do but I've resisted that.

At any rate, I may have found her. Will be checking it out in the next day or so.

89' 5 speed FI V6 Runner. Any advice on specific things I should be checking for other than obvious rust spots in channels and rough running, scary sounds/smoke or bad shifting etc? Supposedly running great, with heat/air working great along with all electrical.

It's a long way away from me so I've only been told about it so far and haven't seen it yet but I am hoping to set that up tomorrow.

Thanks again guys. With any luck I'll be back soon trying to figure out what I need to do to bullet proof this drive train.

v_man

Obviously you wanna know about any head gasket issues ? Did he have it replaced under the recall ?

diableri

Actually I'm less worried about the head gasket than something odd like do these tend to have a rust spot that might not be obvious or a frequent warping of the top, problem with the tailgate. Something that someone new to runners might not know or find easily with google.

I'm going to have a mechanic I trust go completely through the drive train and front/rear ends to check everything to get a solid idea of what is first as soon as I get it picked up. After that, I will start working on any surface rust or minor dents etc, get it primed and sealed, then interior/electrical. After that I'll need to decide how stock I want to stay. Hasn't been lifted or messed with thankfully and I really don't need any of that sort of thing. Going to treat it like a keeper street rod and go through it completely.

Took a while to get in contact with the fellow but now just waiting on a day that works for him to go pick it up.