Bluto

The X-REAS suspension system is available on 4th gen 4Runners. The shocks are linked diagonal, and share fluid. If you install a spacer lift, you can't replace the rear shocks with longer ones.

First, some cut and paste from another thread. I did not want the discussion to get lost, or go off topic.


Thanks for the replies.

4run4fun posted his relocs in the above thread. They are grade 8 bolts with various washers, spacers, & shafts. They bolt in a hole above the stock shock location and provide a new mount. I looked at the stock location, it is reinforced. The reloc location above the stock is not. Is the lack of reinfocement the biggest concern? The overall design? Bolt strength?

Is some type of weld in relocation is a better option? DeMello offers an Off-Road weld in shock relocation kit for the Tacoma. Could a good shop simply weld in a new shock location? Thanks.

Good Times

if you don't plan to go more than 2.5" or so, I wouldn't worry about relocating the shock. if you plan to do more than that, then you're best bet is to remove the xreas shock as the shock length is your biggest limiting factor.

i will not use the relocs that NE offers as i highly doubt that there was any r&d involved. Of course i could be wrong but due to the recent issues that has come up regarding quality, it would suggest that their r&d consisted of someone just looking down there and finding a hole and decided to use it. you're best bet if you want to relocate the rear shock is to just weld a new shock point. of course this means a new geometry and will change the characteristic of the ride so do factor that in of you plan to do some crazy stuff.

good luck.

Mickdady

Hey Lance,

Wouldn't lifting without longer shocks hurt downward travel?

Good Times

Yes, that's why the xreas owners are limited by the shock as it can only travel so much. A 3" lift using spacers won't hurt that much as from the last time I measure the shock travel on the stock part was approximately 3.5". So you still have abit of play. But ultimately you really don't want to driving at full droop either.

Hope that makes sense.

Bottom line is xreas is the bottleneck.

bulldog-yota

My concern with relocation of the shock is that it will help with droop, but what about full compression? What happens when you stuff the rear wheel completely? Will the shock actually become your bumpstop? I have XREAS and have put spacers in the back without relocation. You might have to change you bumpstops in the back to protect your shock.

If there are guys who have relocated the shock, it will help greatly to see some pics of the rear compltely stuffed and the bumpstop on the axles. If Toyota put in enough "margin" it should be fine, if not dont expect your XREAS to last long when you offraod and you use the shock as the "bumpstop".

Mickdady

Are the XREAS and non XREAS shocks the same length? If so I could probably take some non XREAS full compression pictures on Friday night when I lift mine. I will take the pics before I put the new shocks on.

Good Times

It should be the same length.

bulldog-yota

DO you have a 4th Gen? ALso have you fitted the reocators? I would like to see a 4th Gen with relocators completely stuffed and where the axle bumpstop is.

Mickdady

I have a 4th but non XREAS. I am putting on a revtek kit. I was thinking of putting on the spacers and leaving on the stock shocks to see if they would be long enough (just for experiment). Then put on the longer shocks. Make sense? Even though it isn't XREAS the shocks are the same length so it would give us an idea.

4run4fun

While I respect Lance's opinion I really don't agree with him.

I wanted to relocate my shocks immediately after I had Daystar do the lift. I noticed the effect on the rear axle downward travel right away, even when turning corners on the street. The lack of travel was obvious on my last Cochran Coke ovens 4wd trip. I was concerned about the stress on the shocks from constantly overextending them. Though they can probably take it, the relocators make logical sense to me.

I have since done some very rough wheelin and the travel now feels like it did before the lift.

Lance obviously has a quite negative opionion about NE and anything they did. That's his right. I, on the other hand, have no concerns whatsoever about the quality and durability of the relocs I bought. They are seriously stout, the mounting location can easily support the force involved (in fact I believe it is at least as stong as the stock location, if not stronger), and they fully accomplish what I wanted them to.

Good Times

Well the easiest way to determine if you are actually overextending the shock themselves is to measure it. I am pretty certain that you won't overextend the rear shocks with the spacer that you have. Based on my measurements I believe there were abit more room for play but I haven't done the measurement recently so I can't verify this information.

As for the relocation unit themselves, I am sure they work as they are suppose to. The only concern is the probable lack of research that was done to ensure that this piece will adequately perform as it looks to do so.

Here's a comment made by another user regarding the reloc units:

"All the force is exerted on the steel pins they use to relocate the shocks, not the bolts. There are two things I question about the pins though.

1) Since they're bolted on, I wonder how much they're going to wiggle over the years. If they do wiggle, the holes are going to enlarge.
2) the inside of the shoulders of the pins are cut pretty sharp, there's no filet or radius and that creates a pretty big stress riser in that area and that's the area of highest stress.

I don't know how an xreas suspension would handle a catastrophic shock mount failure, but I would think under normal conditions one wouldn't loose control. Under extreme conditions, like avoidance manuevers it might be a problem and I would imagine a failure to an xreas suspension under that conditions would be worse.

Whether these will fail, I don't know. Only time will tell. I hope they did the engineering calcs AND physical fatigue testing."

Based on NE's track record on their other product(s) I would suspect that this item will not fair well. Obviously I don't have to worry about relocating the shocks as I don't have xreas so I don't need this item. My only concern is that I do not want to see anyone get hurt due to the irresponsibility of some vendor that took advantage of the consumer.

Lastly Andries brings up a valid point now regarding the bumpstop. I think by moving this lower shock point, you'd ultimately have to get larger bumpstops from preventing it from over compressing the shock and thus blowing them out inversely. Like I said, the only real way to test this is by measuring the shock and doing some calculations based on those measurements.

Mickdady

I know the focus of this thread is if relocs are necessary but I have a question about something we discussed in the previous thread.

I have been looking at NEs pics of the Reloc and there have been a lot of concern about the bolt strength, but if the relocs "ribs" exactly match the two pieces of steel that they go through there is no weight or sheer put on the back bolt. All it does is hold the reloc in place. The front bolt holds the shock onto the reloc and it too doesn't see vertical or lateral sheer forces...it simply keeps the shock from sliding off the reloc. So is there really a reason to be concerned about the bolts?

I am basing this off of the pics which are hard to see so if I am off base please say so. I have never seen a reloc in person so maybe someone who has installed them can comment on my observation.

Mickdady

I bet welding in the relocs would make a pretty sturdy shock mount with no worries about the bolts at all.

Good Times

wouldn't you have to worry about the front too? Just more food for thought.

4run4fun

You are right. While I did not measure, I can tell you that the back wheels came off the ground much sooner in off roading situations before the relocs.


Here are some pics I took during install, which should help you evaluate their structure and application.













Agreed, of course. However, I don't really see any need for concern. I have stressed my runner out more than most have (except maybe you Lance) and I am more concerned about other things failing. My muffler is shredded (scored a 'new' oem one for $17!, not on yet), my skid plates are all skidded out, and there are many other bumps and bruises. (learnin to weld so I can make some skids myself!)

Personally, I don't think a few months of business is long enough to establish a "track record". It is apparent that things went south fast for NE, but I feel pretty confident in the relocs. I don't think it was impossible for them to make one product well. This is basically a non-wear item, so it should fare well over time.

While I have no specific measurments, I am not sure this holds water. The relocs have basically restored the shock travel to near factory specs. In addition, in my experience, overextending the rears is much more common than overcompressing in off road situations. I wanted relocs to 'restore' some articulation capability, to keep the wheels on the ground longer.

The front suspension is obviously different than the rear. I did not install the lift myself, so I am no expert, but the spacer intallation on the front does not appear to alter the shock travel, whereas it does on the rear.? I have not felt any difference in the way the front handles post lift, as I did with the rear. -Dave

FirstToy

Well I see some fundamental problems with Anthony-NE's attempt but I will not publicly state them because, quite frankly, I don't want to help the troll.

4run4fun, I don't want this to become something where you feel defensive about your great rig. I think your opinion is just as valid as any other owner here.

If the XREAS owners reading want to relocate the rear shocks, lets do it right. Let's use our group buying power and go with a trusted vendor that knows what he's doing, knows how to fabricate and understands suspension dynamics.

4run4fun

No offense taken at all FirstToy! That's one of the things I love about this forum...let the opinions/ideas flow. That's best for all of us.

I do agree that these are not perfect, per se. I just had to have something and they came up with it first. I have no doubts that they can be improved on, but what I have does the job.

bulldog-yota

Dave, my concern is with the fact that the force on compression is far higher than on extension. Shocks should easily take the force on extension, but the force on compression is a very different issue. I dont know if Toyota allowed enough play in the original design that will allow an extra couple of inches of shock travel on compression. That is why I would like to see pics of an XREAS system with relocs and full compression, and where the bumpstops and axle sit. Maybe it is fine maybe not, I dont know and I have not seen any evidence to either effect. If it works for you great.

Good Times

Dave, Opinions/idea flows is what makes all of us a more edumacated individual. That said I"m not attacking you in any way shape or form. I am just concerned that's all. It is obvious that this application has worked for you at the current moment.

As we all modify our rigs, we must not forget that safety is the number one concern. This is because it can affect you directly or indirectly and have a likelihood to cause harm to others.

That said, do you feel confident enough to rest your life on a suspension component that has a high probability that it has not been tested enough? Even though NE has only been around for a short period, their quality in the products they developed from the beginning was sub par. Taking this into consideration you are still willing to look the other way just because it looks strong? Keep in mind that you do agree that these are not perfect yet you still have em.

The hole that NE used has been around in the previous gen 4runners as well, yet none of the vendors bothered to use it as a replacement shock mounting location. Maybe there's a reason behind it or they just figured it'd be easier to just get longer shocks but that is some food for thought. If you really are not sure, I'd ask Revtek or even Daystar (since they've been around along time in the suspension industry) and see what they think of the reloc setup. Since you're in Mesa, I know Daystar is not that far from you (well closer than me where I"m in Los Angeles.) I'm pretty confident they'd either laugh or say "no comment" since it's not their product. Or ask them if they would make something similar that is better and stronger that will replace this NE reloc.

If you really want to relocate your shock, just weld on a new mount on the axle and call it a day. Cheaper and safer I think.

Daystar sells their spacers w/o a rear shock so it looks like you don't overextend the rear.

Anyway, I just think it's not worth the risk for anyone to run something that has not been tested and verified especially when it comes down to suspension component. Anything can go wrong and if something does, you're just asking for it. They had a great conceptual idea but unfortunately, I don't think they did all the homework to ensure the safety in everyone.

r0cky

I agree with Lance.

Daystar openly admits their kits are safe for XREAS-equipped trucks. Their kits are 2.5" in front and 2" in the rear and don't need longer shocks/relocation .... Revtek's kit is 3" in front and 2.5" in the rear ... I'm guessing the .5" difference is not enough to require longer shocks except to be extra safe. When I had my Revtek kit, I did go offroading a couple times and never had a problem at all with that amount of lift, the stock shocks, and compression/extension.