what emissions crap can i take off my 93 22re and how do i do it?
05-13-2009, 12:11 PM
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what emissions crap can i take off my 93 22re and how do i do it?
Hey, i know there are a lot of people that have done it, but what emissions crap can i take off my 93 22re and how do i do it? yes i have looked on here and done some searches but everybody just wants to tell ya to do a search. so if there's already a pretty good write up please just send the link. i'm just trying to clean up a little bit and to be honest eliminate any extra stuff i don't need since i don't have to deal with emissions. thanks. pics might be great too if anybody doesn't mind.
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05-13-2009, 12:26 PM
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Considering the only real 'external' emission stuff on the truck are the evap canister, catalytic converter, EGR valve, O2 and PAIR system... that's about it. Proper fuel mix depends on the O2. Proper O2 feedback depends on EGR and PAIR operation. Proper converter operation depends on O2, EGR and PAIR. Sounds like you need most of that. None of it takes significant horsepower to operate. And the evap canister helps keeps fuel vapor from polluting the atmosphere.
Considering many places are tightening emissions requirements, even on off-road only vehicles, I don't know what you should remove.
If it isn't broke, why break it?
There are good write ups about EGR removal and such on yotatech.
Removing the converter takes little more than a torch or saw and welder.
Still kind of need the O2 sensor otherwise it doesn't run as good as it could.
PAIR is a few hoses and some block off plates or just leave it 'cause it doesn't use any horsepower to operate.
If you're looking for some power, a good header, bumping the timing a tad and a tune up should gain as much if not more power than loosing all the emissions stuff... even a hundred dollar camshaft can get you more power than losing emissions.
Considering many places are tightening emissions requirements, even on off-road only vehicles, I don't know what you should remove.
If it isn't broke, why break it?
There are good write ups about EGR removal and such on yotatech.
Removing the converter takes little more than a torch or saw and welder.
Still kind of need the O2 sensor otherwise it doesn't run as good as it could.
PAIR is a few hoses and some block off plates or just leave it 'cause it doesn't use any horsepower to operate.
If you're looking for some power, a good header, bumping the timing a tad and a tune up should gain as much if not more power than loosing all the emissions stuff... even a hundred dollar camshaft can get you more power than losing emissions.
05-13-2009, 01:04 PM
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Hey, thanks man. the real honest answer is that i'm doing an engine swap. well 22re for a new 22re (rebuilt) just cause i don't have the expertise to do it myself. i'm a mechanical guy but frankly, i had a buddy help me 2 years ago who does know what he's doing but he doesn't live around here now and i don't have everything i need to do it again. i was burning oil really bad and blew the head gasket plus a few other odds and ends. The stuff that i SHOULD have done the first time i didn't to save money (boring and tanking the block). so i don't want to mess with the rebuild again so i'm buying a short block and just swapping. the main honest to God answer is that i just want to have less stuff in there. plus, i don't know why, but my EGR is damn near packed full of carbon and i don't know if eliminating it will do anything, i'm just one of those guys that figures if it doesn't ABSOLUTELY need it then why have it. i don't have a problem having the stuff, it's just that it's a couple more things that can give me problems down the road. O2 sensor is in but i don't have a cat, just the test pipe installed. so that's why i was asking mainly. just to see what i wouldn't HAVE to put back in under the hood. will it run like crap if i take the stuff out? do you just cap the vac lines? i know about blocking of the egr and i would kind of like to do that. i live in idaho so i don't think that my truck is going to completely screw up the air if you know what i mean. besides, enough people from Cali brought their more strict emissions vehicles with em when they came up here in mass that i figure i'll just be the balance. lol...just kidding. i don't necessarily want to remove it, just unhook it...just in case i ever do need it. that's all. thanks though.
05-13-2009, 01:50 PM
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I blocked of the EGR on my 86 and still pass emissions with flying colors. I didn't intend to block it but I busted it trying to reinstall it after taking it off to clean it out. I will say that blocking the EGR will cause higher temps in the cylinder (from what I've read here) so it may not be the best idea.
I have all the EGR/CAT/PAIR stuff on my 89 and the only thing that gives me fits is the EGR. I do plan to pull it and replace it since my rig was a California truck (stupid temp sensor) and although it is rather expansive I'd like to have a working emissions system on there. The emissions stuff on the Toyotas is nothing like the HP killing emissions on the 86 and up Jeeps. Mine have made it 187,000 and 215,000 miles (86 and 89 in that order) and had no issues. Hell I'm getting 20mpg in the 86 and 22mpg in the 89 and they both do wonderful off and on road. If you want to pull them just to clean up the engine compartment I think you may be setting yourself up for engine codes later on down the road. If they work then leave them on.
Just my couple of pennies.
Two last things.
1) Abe is pretty much a diety around here and you can take his word as being the "Ten Commandments of Toyota".
2)Welcome to the addiction.
I have all the EGR/CAT/PAIR stuff on my 89 and the only thing that gives me fits is the EGR. I do plan to pull it and replace it since my rig was a California truck (stupid temp sensor) and although it is rather expansive I'd like to have a working emissions system on there. The emissions stuff on the Toyotas is nothing like the HP killing emissions on the 86 and up Jeeps. Mine have made it 187,000 and 215,000 miles (86 and 89 in that order) and had no issues. Hell I'm getting 20mpg in the 86 and 22mpg in the 89 and they both do wonderful off and on road. If you want to pull them just to clean up the engine compartment I think you may be setting yourself up for engine codes later on down the road. If they work then leave them on.
Just my couple of pennies.
Two last things.
1) Abe is pretty much a diety around here and you can take his word as being the "Ten Commandments of Toyota".
2)Welcome to the addiction.
05-13-2009, 04:26 PM
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lol! THE diety! haha i trust you guys for sure. i just was looking through my egr and that thing is CLOGGED!!! just barely the tip of a pencil could fit through it. so i just was thinking, the less the better that's all. i appreciate it, i guess the smog police win this battle!! thanks guys...ps did you leave the pipes in and just block the egr?
05-13-2009, 04:52 PM
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If you remove anything & you go for your emissions test by law they are supposed to do a visual inspection as well as the tailpipe test. If your vehicle passes emissions with a removed EGR it is only because the tech is lazy & is not doing his job.
I cannot figure out why people think that removing the emissions equipment will give them extra performance. It's a truck with a little engine, why not leave it alone so that runs correctly & is trouble free? not to mention destroying the re-sale value.
I cannot figure out why people think that removing the emissions equipment will give them extra performance. It's a truck with a little engine, why not leave it alone so that runs correctly & is trouble free? not to mention destroying the re-sale value.
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05-13-2009, 05:37 PM
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My truck runs correctly, is trouble-free and I have -0- emissions components. You must not have done much research on the subject.
05-13-2009, 05:49 PM
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My carbon fiber hood sticker should be here by wednesday
05-13-2009, 06:43 PM
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well to throw in my $0.02, I'm currently rebuilding the 22re in my 91 PU. With 296k miles on all the original emmission stuff, it's all getting romoved; none of it's going back on during the assymbely. I opted not to install the cat when I installed my exhaust system a little while ago, and during the rebuild I'm removing the EGR and PAIR systems, and blocking them all off with plates from LC Engineering. It'll take some of the clutter away from under the hood (probably loose more than half the vaccum lines 
), and I think my EGR valve was sticking open to begin with. And the PAIR system is very annoying to listen to after I re-routed the tube that comes up from the top of it...
I'm by no means looking for performance gains or MPG gains, but hell it's all already removed, and it's just less to worry about breaking later down the road if I just take them out of the equation
), and I think my EGR valve was sticking open to begin with. And the PAIR system is very annoying to listen to after I re-routed the tube that comes up from the top of it...I'm by no means looking for performance gains or MPG gains, but hell it's all already removed, and it's just less to worry about breaking later down the road if I just take them out of the equation
05-13-2009, 06:58 PM
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Now if your building a 100% trail rig that will never see the street than that's another story because it would be an off road use only vehicle OR if you are planning on keeping it forever & not selling it.
Last edited by turborich; 05-13-2009 at 07:01 PM.
My head or the ill-founded praise?
05-13-2009, 07:18 PM
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You may think your vehicle runs perfect but I doubt if that is really the case. If all of your emissions have been removed then your engine is poluting more than it normally would. What did you do with your evap system? throw it out & block up all of the lines? As far as re-sale value goes you are joking, Right? Who in their right mind would buy a vehicle that has had all of the federally required emission equipment removed? Sure as heck not me. You might as well remove all of the lights too, sure it will run & drive but will it be correct? I just don't get it. You must have a constant check engine light but I guess you really don't need it anymore so u can pull the bulb out. It's your vehicle, destroy it however you wish, i wouldn't encourage others to do the same though.
Now if your building a 100% trail rig that will never see the street than that's another story because it would be an off road use only vehicle OR if you are planning on keeping it forever & not selling it.
Now if your building a 100% trail rig that will never see the street than that's another story because it would be an off road use only vehicle OR if you are planning on keeping it forever & not selling it.
In all of the vehicles I've bought/sold/traded I've never asked and never been asked if the emissions equipment was still there lol.
You don't want to buy my truck? Ok fine, there are plenty of people who aren't paranoid and delusional about emissions. I have no check engine lights and yes, my check engine light is still operable. My motor runs perfectly fine, regardless of how great you think it would run WITH all of the emissions crap hooked up.
On most Powerstroke motors the first and best mod you can do for your motor is REMOVE the EGR crap because it's been proven to be more trouble than it's worth. They make the block-off kits for a reason and if it's legal to sell, it's legal to install. Nobody is going to federal prison over it and nobody is going to have a hard time selling a vehicle without it, not around here anyways. We have no emissions tests here so I can do what I want with my vehicle, how I want. Thanks for your concern, Mother Teresa.
Comparing removing emissions to removing headlights is idiotic and I'm not even going to reply to that nonsense.
05-13-2009, 07:36 PM
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05-13-2009, 07:38 PM
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Emissions tests basically only test up to 25 mph, hardly the engine loading required to produce a lot of NOx emissions and high cylinder temps- even a good converter can reduce NOx emissions on its own, so EGR doesn't play as much of a factor in tests as it does have real-world benefits under the higher engine loads found in high gear @ 65-70.
Anyhow... if there's no need to remove it, there's no harm in leaving it. Like I said, if it isn't broke, why break it?
Anyhow... if there's no need to remove it, there's no harm in leaving it. Like I said, if it isn't broke, why break it?
05-13-2009, 10:39 PM
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lol you know that tag on your matress that says " DO NOT REMOVE UNDER PENALTY OF LAW" ? The cops won't really come to your house and arrest you if you rip it off.
In all of the vehicles I've bought/sold/traded I've never asked and never been asked if the emissions equipment was still there lol. You don't want to buy my truck? Ok fine, there are plenty of people who aren't paranoid and delusional about emissions.
I have no check engine lights and yes, my check engine light is still operable. My motor runs perfectly fine, regardless of how great you think it would run WITH all of the emissions crap hooked up.
On most Powerstroke motors the first and best mod you can do for your motor is REMOVE the EGR crap because it's been proven to be more trouble than it's worth. They make the block-off kits for a reason and if it's legal to sell, it's legal to install. Nobody is going to federal prison over it and nobody is going to have a hard time selling a vehicle without it, not around here anyways. We have no emissions tests here so I can do what I want with my vehicle, how I want. Thanks for your concern, Mother Teresa.
Comparing removing emissions to removing headlights is idiotic and I'm not even going to reply to that nonsense.
In all of the vehicles I've bought/sold/traded I've never asked and never been asked if the emissions equipment was still there lol.
You don't want to buy my truck? Ok fine, there are plenty of people who aren't paranoid and delusional about emissions. I have no check engine lights and yes, my check engine light is still operable. My motor runs perfectly fine, regardless of how great you think it would run WITH all of the emissions crap hooked up.
On most Powerstroke motors the first and best mod you can do for your motor is REMOVE the EGR crap because it's been proven to be more trouble than it's worth. They make the block-off kits for a reason and if it's legal to sell, it's legal to install. Nobody is going to federal prison over it and nobody is going to have a hard time selling a vehicle without it, not around here anyways. We have no emissions tests here so I can do what I want with my vehicle, how I want. Thanks for your concern, Mother Teresa.
Comparing removing emissions to removing headlights is idiotic and I'm not even going to reply to that nonsense.
About your never asking if a vehicle was emission compliant or not, well that again just shows that you are not a very good consumer if you would make a high dollar investment on a hacked up vehicle that is missing the emissions. Maybe you don't mind buying another persons hack job let alone selling an illegal vehicle to a unsuspecting buyer.
You are just making this way too easy! As far as the Powerstroke (Navistar) engine goes... you once again got your facts wrong. "if it's legal to sell it then it's legal to install it" Ummmm, no it's not! Yes it's legal to sell it, NO it is NOT legal to install it. Like I said, by law it's your emission tech's job to check & see if the equipment is there. He could face THOUSANDS of dollars in fines if he doesn't.
Now, with all of that said I think it's clear that you make it up as you go along. Bottom line though, it's your vehicle so do with it as you wish. Just don't spout your made up ideas as it would be a shame if someone listened to you & caused damage to their vehicle. Have a good day, I will NOT be participating in this thread anymore.
05-14-2009, 04:01 AM
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you are just showing your lack of knowledge. The tag on a matress must be left on by the seller ONLY! NOT THE BUYER! Once you own it you can do as you wish. Do your homework before you try to school me.
About your never asking if a vehicle was emission compliant or not, well that again just shows that you are not a very good consumer if you would make a high dollar investment on a hacked up vehicle that is missing the emissions. Maybe you don't mind buying another persons hack job let alone selling an illegal vehicle to a unsuspecting buyer.
You are just making this way too easy! As far as the Powerstroke (Navistar) engine goes... you once again got your facts wrong. "if it's legal to sell it then it's legal to install it" Ummmm, no it's not! Yes it's legal to sell it, NO it is NOT legal to install it. Like I said, by law it's your emission tech's job to check & see if the equipment is there. He could face THOUSANDS of dollars in fines if he doesn't.
Now, with all of that said I think it's clear that you make it up as you go along. Bottom line though, it's your vehicle so do with it as you wish. Just don't spout your made up ideas as it would be a shame if someone listened to you & caused damage to their vehicle. Have a good day, I will NOT be participating in this thread anymore.
About your never asking if a vehicle was emission compliant or not, well that again just shows that you are not a very good consumer if you would make a high dollar investment on a hacked up vehicle that is missing the emissions. Maybe you don't mind buying another persons hack job let alone selling an illegal vehicle to a unsuspecting buyer.
You are just making this way too easy! As far as the Powerstroke (Navistar) engine goes... you once again got your facts wrong. "if it's legal to sell it then it's legal to install it" Ummmm, no it's not! Yes it's legal to sell it, NO it is NOT legal to install it. Like I said, by law it's your emission tech's job to check & see if the equipment is there. He could face THOUSANDS of dollars in fines if he doesn't.
Now, with all of that said I think it's clear that you make it up as you go along. Bottom line though, it's your vehicle so do with it as you wish. Just don't spout your made up ideas as it would be a shame if someone listened to you & caused damage to their vehicle. Have a good day, I will NOT be participating in this thread anymore.
OMG Sally, you better pull the plug out of your butt and calm down.
Do you know how many people on this site alone have removed the EGR system? Do you know how many PowerStroke owners have removed the EGR system? Just because you think it's the end of the world doesn't mean nobody else should do it. Show me ONE SINGLE case where someone went to jail or someone lost a sale because the vehicle didn't have an EGR system in place. You're being ridiculous and you sound like a scared little girl talking about how illegal it is and how "hacked" a vehicle without it is. I'm going to take a wild guess and assume you have NEVER taken your truck off-road? You have street only tires on it and if it even is a 4WD model, it has never been in 4WD as long as you've been an owner? Don't hate me if I'm right. 
Here is a powerstroke that gained power from EGR removal and some FACTS about it:
http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/0...kit/index.html
It robs power, causes blown head gaskets and allows soot to enter the intake. Sounds like something I want on my truck! Hmmmm....kinda odd since the 3.0 has been known for blown head gaskets......hmmmm.....
IT'S NOT THE END OF THE WORLD. EGR IS NOT NECESSARY.
05-14-2009, 09:16 AM
#20
are you a sarcastic punk all the time, or just for yotatech? everytime someone says something that you disagree with you, you have to start an argument and start calling people names...
Case in point...
Does that mean its legal?
Do you know how many citizens have left it on and have had no problems? my guess its more than have removed it...
but why should they on these motors when the gains arent much, if any?
well, here in cali, guys get popped in their hondas all the time for stripping down the motor for "horsepower gains"... that lands them a night in jail and their car impounded... its more common than you thing... and cops are getting smarter...
also, it is ILLEGAL to sell a vehicle with its smog equipment removed... any of it... go google it yourself... if it was there from the factory, then it MUST be in place when the title changes hands... plus, i know many a friend who have not bought cars because the smog system was hacked up in some way...
again with the personal attacks... why?
just because he has street tires dont mean he doesnt go offroad... i wheeled more places in my Highway Tread Yokohamas than i have in my BFG's... just because you dont wheel in stock trim, doesnt mean that others dont... and after your last outing it seems like it doesnt matter on how many mods you have, but how you wheel... look at tc, hes in stock trim, but hes been places that truck shouldnt go... so dont hate...
ill just quote the article...
yea, thats right... it says people are having problems with their MODIFIED 6.0Ls... first off, that motor was a crappy design from the start and ford and navistart int. had a few lawsuits between the two of them... but once again, guys who are stock are having problems, but its not related to the EGR system...
do your homework pal... the 3.o is "known for blown head gaskets" because people dont maintian and drive them like they should... and headers mitigate that problem, so the point is moot...
my truck has the stock emissions system... all of it... and ive never blown a headgasket... in fact there is a thread on here about people who havent blown a head gasket and the reliability of the motor...
once again, why do you have to be so sarcastic?
as it is, you have totally cluttered up this thread with your incessant arguing on a subject that is a matter of opinions...
OMG Sally, you better pull the plug out of your butt and calm down.
Do you know how many people on this site alone have removed the EGR system?
Do you know how many PowerStroke owners have removed the EGR system?
Just because you think it's the end of the world doesn't mean nobody else should do it.
Show me ONE SINGLE case where someone went to jail or someone lost a sale because the vehicle didn't have an EGR system in place.
also, it is ILLEGAL to sell a vehicle with its smog equipment removed... any of it... go google it yourself... if it was there from the factory, then it MUST be in place when the title changes hands... plus, i know many a friend who have not bought cars because the smog system was hacked up in some way...
You're being ridiculous and you sound like a scared little girl talking about how illegal it is and how "hacked" a vehicle without it is.I'm going to take a wild guess and assume you have NEVER taken your truck off-road? You have street only tires on it and if it even is a 4WD model, it has never been in 4WD as long as you've been an owner? Don't hate me if I'm right.
just because he has street tires dont mean he doesnt go offroad...
i wheeled more places in my Highway Tread Yokohamas than i have in my BFG's... just because you dont wheel in stock trim, doesnt mean that others dont... and after your last outing it seems like it doesnt matter on how many mods you have, but how you wheel... look at tc, hes in stock trim, but hes been places that truck shouldnt go... so dont hate...
Here is a powerstroke that gained power from EGR removal and some FACTS about it:
http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/0...kit/index.html
http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/0...kit/index.html
In the diesel performance world, Ford 6.0L Power Stroke engines have a bad reputation for blowing head gaskets and sticking EGR valves when owners modify them. There are a number of reasons why people have problems with their modified 6.0Ls, but one of the main culprits is the exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) system.
It robs power, causes blown head gaskets and allows soot to enter the intake. Sounds like something I want on my truck! Hmmmm....kinda odd since the 3.0 has been known for blown head gaskets......hmmmm.....
do your homework pal... the 3.o is "known for blown head gaskets" because people dont maintian and drive them like they should... and headers mitigate that problem, so the point is moot...my truck has the stock emissions system... all of it... and ive never blown a headgasket... in fact there is a thread on here about people who havent blown a head gasket and the reliability of the motor...
IT'S NOT THE END OF THE WORLD. EGR IS NOT NECESSARY.
as it is, you have totally cluttered up this thread with your incessant arguing on a subject that is a matter of opinions...
