TPS Problems... Maybe?
02-29-2012, 12:42 PM
#21
Hey Jrock,
Yeah, most misses I've investigated, whether on my rig or others, has led me to 'mechanical' issues, whether pertaining to 'mechanical timing' or 'mechanical hangups/valves/wrist pins', ...... However, many times it CAN be an injector, etc. The list is pretty endless in regards to "VARIABLES", YA KNOW?
Seeing that you have a technician on it, they'll look at things in specific, like Leak Down testing, compression, IGN timing accuracy, ......... plus more, which will lead them to the 'PROBLEM CYLINDER/S', ....or actually help them rule it out. It's often the BEST way to go, rather than searching through EVERY SENSOR/VALVE/EMISSIONS SYSTEM/ECU/IGN/, etc., etc., etc., ya know? lol.
I've even had a miss due to a clogged cat.... however, replacing the CAT didn't solve everything, because the damage that clogged CAT had done, ....well, was 'already done', lol.
My miss that many fought through with me ended up being the machinist's error. He left the valves in(ORIG, AT 247k!), GUIDES AS WELL, and only replaced the seals after cleaning the valves up.... That CAN work, but almost EVERY builder replaces at least the Exhaust valves and guides.... Mine didn't do either, and as a result, there was WAY too much play in the guide(He made the valve smaller with a grind and then left the same guides in, ...make sense?)..... This caused a BAD miss that was IMPOSSIBLE to track down... even the leak down didn't tell me much. It was just a lil 'off' but all across the board.
My machinist I used first time also tried to grind my orig. cam, which caused MAJOR problems..... Replacing that w/out pulling the head, helped, LOTS! But, it didn't solve all the issues.
In the end, 20% of my issues were just old/tired wiring/sensors..... ..the other 80% was MECHANICAL, thousandths of inches here and there that just add up to a NIGHTMARE gremlin that's VERY hard to find.
I'm guessing he's going to tell you, next, "You need a valve job, at least"..... And that's fine... Just maybe do a lil research as to HOW MUCH you want to restore the head.... and then remember, when you put a TIGHT head with everything sussed up back onto a moderately or more tired bottom end..... That can lead to issues as well, not too far down the road.
Ask him what he honestly thinks, "If this was YOUR motor, and you were in my boat, financially, etc., whatever, ....would you just rebuild the motor?".... he will then tell you your compression, leak down results, etc., and you will EASILY know what the 'best next move' is, ya know?
Ask him, as well, if he'll do a 'propane' test. You basically take the EFI system out of the picture, then examine your 'miss', ya know? Most of what he's doing will probably tell him all he needs to know... and it's probably not necessary now... BUT, if the heads repaired and then you still have a miss... Well, the next line would be obvious, right? hahaha.
I think you're on the right track, man.... Trustworthy or not, DIG FOR INFO FROM HIM, because the most valuable thing in all this is 'INFO' from a pro, right?
Yeah, most misses I've investigated, whether on my rig or others, has led me to 'mechanical' issues, whether pertaining to 'mechanical timing' or 'mechanical hangups/valves/wrist pins', ...... However, many times it CAN be an injector, etc. The list is pretty endless in regards to "VARIABLES", YA KNOW?
Seeing that you have a technician on it, they'll look at things in specific, like Leak Down testing, compression, IGN timing accuracy, ......... plus more, which will lead them to the 'PROBLEM CYLINDER/S', ....or actually help them rule it out. It's often the BEST way to go, rather than searching through EVERY SENSOR/VALVE/EMISSIONS SYSTEM/ECU/IGN/, etc., etc., etc., ya know? lol.
I've even had a miss due to a clogged cat.... however, replacing the CAT didn't solve everything, because the damage that clogged CAT had done, ....well, was 'already done', lol.
My miss that many fought through with me ended up being the machinist's error. He left the valves in(ORIG, AT 247k!), GUIDES AS WELL, and only replaced the seals after cleaning the valves up.... That CAN work, but almost EVERY builder replaces at least the Exhaust valves and guides.... Mine didn't do either, and as a result, there was WAY too much play in the guide(He made the valve smaller with a grind and then left the same guides in, ...make sense?)..... This caused a BAD miss that was IMPOSSIBLE to track down... even the leak down didn't tell me much. It was just a lil 'off' but all across the board.
My machinist I used first time also tried to grind my orig. cam, which caused MAJOR problems..... Replacing that w/out pulling the head, helped, LOTS! But, it didn't solve all the issues.
In the end, 20% of my issues were just old/tired wiring/sensors..... ..the other 80% was MECHANICAL, thousandths of inches here and there that just add up to a NIGHTMARE gremlin that's VERY hard to find.
I'm guessing he's going to tell you, next, "You need a valve job, at least"..... And that's fine... Just maybe do a lil research as to HOW MUCH you want to restore the head.... and then remember, when you put a TIGHT head with everything sussed up back onto a moderately or more tired bottom end..... That can lead to issues as well, not too far down the road.
Ask him what he honestly thinks, "If this was YOUR motor, and you were in my boat, financially, etc., whatever, ....would you just rebuild the motor?".... he will then tell you your compression, leak down results, etc., and you will EASILY know what the 'best next move' is, ya know?
Ask him, as well, if he'll do a 'propane' test. You basically take the EFI system out of the picture, then examine your 'miss', ya know? Most of what he's doing will probably tell him all he needs to know... and it's probably not necessary now... BUT, if the heads repaired and then you still have a miss... Well, the next line would be obvious, right? hahaha.
I think you're on the right track, man.... Trustworthy or not, DIG FOR INFO FROM HIM, because the most valuable thing in all this is 'INFO' from a pro, right?
02-29-2012, 12:54 PM
#22
Registered User
Thread Starter
Thanks Chef. Really great advice andI really do appreciate it. I guess I'll wait by the phone for him to call and see what he says after he's done his test and I'll talk with him and go from there. I'll report back on here when I have made my decision.
02-29-2012, 08:07 PM
#23
My pleasure, ....... just keep us updated.... It helps to keep us scragglers lingering! hehe.
02-29-2012, 08:41 PM
#25
Nice to meet ya, KSTI!
I'm actually anxious to hear what's up with the 22REEEEK, JRock... lol....... My bet is it needs a valve job and possibly a good servicing of the Injectors/IACV and TPS Adjustment/possibly-replacement(I doubt the latter)...... Maybe something silly like a bad Dizzy Cap or Plug wires, too?
I think you answered this.......but the Fuel Filter is new, right?
03-01-2012, 04:46 AM
#27
Registered User
Thread Starter
The fuel pump was shot when we got it so I had the filter replaced with the fuel pump and I just did a tune up this past weekend (plugs, cap, rotor, wires, etc.) so I doubt that is it. Still haven't heard back from the mechanic so maybe I'll hear something today.
03-01-2012, 07:26 AM
#28
Registered User
WOOOT! hahaha.... That's cool, lol. When I finally get a Veezee to mess with, I'll hitcha up for input on what worked, k? lol
Nice to meet ya, KSTI!
I'm actually anxious to hear what's up with the 22REEEEK, JRock... lol....... My bet is it needs a valve job and possibly a good servicing of the Injectors/IACV and TPS Adjustment/possibly-replacement(I doubt the latter)...... Maybe something silly like a bad Dizzy Cap or Plug wires, too?
I think you answered this.......but the Fuel Filter is new, right?
Nice to meet ya, KSTI!
I'm actually anxious to hear what's up with the 22REEEEK, JRock... lol....... My bet is it needs a valve job and possibly a good servicing of the Injectors/IACV and TPS Adjustment/possibly-replacement(I doubt the latter)...... Maybe something silly like a bad Dizzy Cap or Plug wires, too?
I think you answered this.......but the Fuel Filter is new, right?
03-01-2012, 09:03 AM
#29
Registered User
Thread Starter
Got the verdict today. Come to find out it is a burnt valve but the motor did have a recent rebuild by the PO so no real need to buy anything else as I had the mechanic go ahead and check everything else out. Not exactly the news I was wanting but due to a recent birthday and all I do have the money to fix it. So as soon as the machine shop finishes it up she'll headed down the road again.
03-01-2012, 10:34 AM
#30
NIIIIIIIIICE! That's actually good news, Jrock, because you're hearing of it now and before more damage has occurred. It's usually around 700$ or so, give or take a few, to pull the head, do the valves(I'm guessing it's an exhaust valve and if he finds the rest are ok, you're good to go..... However, it's 54$ or so for ALL the valves, new..... So I would ask what he thinks about whether or not it needs new guides/valves, all together.) Usually, in a rebuild, they 'REFRESH' the head, leaving the stock chilled iron guides in, cleaning stuff out, replacing the exhaust valves..... if that's not been done during the rebuild, I'd just do it. IF, however, it's just 'installer error' from the last job.... no problem.
I wouldn't worry about it... sounded like he's a family trusted dude.... so he'll tell you if he recommends any further work other than the one valve. I guess I'm just anal due to the drama I experienced during my first rebuild I had done on this trucks motor.
Best wishes, can't wait for you to be back on the road again and GRINNING!
HAHAHA...
I wouldn't worry about it... sounded like he's a family trusted dude.... so he'll tell you if he recommends any further work other than the one valve. I guess I'm just anal due to the drama I experienced during my first rebuild I had done on this trucks motor.
Best wishes, can't wait for you to be back on the road again and GRINNING!
HAHAHA...
03-01-2012, 10:58 AM
#31
Registered User
Thread Starter
Thanks Chef!!! That really did make me feel a lot better about the situation! Hopefully that will be all that is wrong with it and I'll be back on the road and spending the money in places I want/need to like squeezing out some ponies with intake, TB and TB spacer, etc. Yes i said ponies and not horses haha! Only being realistic here, I went from a vortec 350 to a 22re and all I can say is BIG DIFFERENCE! If you have any other "power adders" I'll be more than happy to listen. Also looking at making/buying a front bumper since mine is bent in pretty mad and braces are shot and a zuk mod. Thanks again Chef for your input!
Thanks again Chef for your input!
03-01-2012, 11:24 AM
#32
NO problem, Jrock, ...........
Far as the ponies........ What I'll share here is MY PERSONAL opinion and experience, based on what I see from what I have and what I've read through pro's likewww.Engnbldr.com -Father and Son Team, www.22reperformance.com dudes, and PLENTY of Guru's on here who've seen/done just about EVERYTHING possible.....
1...CAI and Big Bore TB
a. I DON'T dislike the CAI system .... But after tons of reading, I've found that I, PERSONALLY, trust Toyota's stock air intake system to meet my needs/to be a better filtration system of the filthy air of L.A. and Surrounding Millions of Acres of Mountains/High Desert filthy dirt that wants in there! lol. I sold the CAI System, to try out this theory, .....AND, I still get up the Cahon Pass(Google it, it's a BEAST and swallows up lots of tired vehicles... Including keeping 22RE's in 3rd Gear for miles! lol...).... I get up it in 4th and 5th, with the AC on, doing 60-70 most of the way, where I used to be doing 45, STRUGGLING, in 3rd-4th gear!
b. Far as the Big Bore..... Most Guru's I've ever spoken with will tell you, "You need to open up the ports in the head, on top of the Air intake tube in order to get 'MORE' out of that Throttle body that you'll REALLY appreciate." I'm not saying it wont help ya.... But I'll explain, later, what I think WILL, FOR SURE, as I've experienced it.
2. Within the motor, there are a couple things I'd recommend before adding those other things.
a. The machinist/mechanic you have might be able to slap in some 1MM oversized Valves from Engnbldr.com for pretty cheap. It takes some grinding of the head internals... But think, you're talking about spending HUNDREDS of dollars on this Throttle body and Intake system, right? Along with the valve seats, he could do a lil porting/polishing of the head ports/Intake and Exhaust.
(BUT, I would do the latter suggestions, since you're already gonna dish out some healthy cabbage having the head pulled and repaired.....and this 'specialized work' WOULD BE better to do by just replacing the head with an Engnbldr Street head w/CAM for like 540$ shipped(???)>>>>)
b. You don't really NEED either to get a bit more out of it in my experience(but the OSized Valves CAN be felt).... you COULD just add a 261 CAM while he's in there, have him set the lash at 7 and 9, as instructed by engnbldr.... And then.......
c. Not internal, but ON the motor, I felt an IMMEDIATE difference from the LCE Header(there are others, tri-y, etc., but I just went with what 22reperformance.com recommended to me, personally)..... I have MORE top end, for sure(MY rig does 85mph, NO problem, with 31's.... and could probably do more with adjustments/more skinny pedal..... But I'm in CA, SO WHY, RIGHT? hahaha.
d. Just the CAM and Header I think are the best initial investments you can make.(along with (e), coming up).... If you can wait, it would just take a couple days from engnbldr for the CAM, and at a cost of only 118$ plus shipping(when I got mine a year ago, so you'd have to check)......
e. GEARS! if you're upping the tire size, I'd think about Gears and a Locker.... 2 of the BEST investments(In the opinions, I'd say, of the majority of those on here who've tinkered with these, like myself) you could make to your 4wd! Gears will give you a better/closer to orig. ratio, so that the Mileage on the Odometer would match what you're actually rolling... they would also give you MUCH MORE on the hills, which you'll see can beat up your patience on these 22RE's, lol. The locker, well.... it should go without saying; But, having your rear locked will give you SO MUCH MORE capability when venturing out into the 'wheeling territory'!
Long and short, I'd go for the CAM(while he's in there) and Header(it wouldn't take long to get to ya), and you'd be only out another 440$ or so..... And YOU WOULD feel it! (Along with the header, you WOULD need some 2.25" pipe from the CAT, back to the tailpipe.... That is NOT hard to do on the cheap, trust me(search on here). You'd spend that on the CAI and Big Bore, ALONE, from LCE(more like 550$ OR MORE, with the spacer, BBTB and CAI)
************************************************** ************
JUST MY PERSONAL OPINION! Talk to your mechanic about it... But I HIGHLY recommend the 261 CAM, while you're in there, AT LEAST.... it's a cheap investment for DEFINITELY noticeable results!
Far as the ponies........ What I'll share here is MY PERSONAL opinion and experience, based on what I see from what I have and what I've read through pro's likewww.Engnbldr.com -Father and Son Team, www.22reperformance.com dudes, and PLENTY of Guru's on here who've seen/done just about EVERYTHING possible.....
1...CAI and Big Bore TB
a. I DON'T dislike the CAI system .... But after tons of reading, I've found that I, PERSONALLY, trust Toyota's stock air intake system to meet my needs/to be a better filtration system of the filthy air of L.A. and Surrounding Millions of Acres of Mountains/High Desert filthy dirt that wants in there! lol. I sold the CAI System, to try out this theory, .....AND, I still get up the Cahon Pass(Google it, it's a BEAST and swallows up lots of tired vehicles... Including keeping 22RE's in 3rd Gear for miles! lol...).... I get up it in 4th and 5th, with the AC on, doing 60-70 most of the way, where I used to be doing 45, STRUGGLING, in 3rd-4th gear!
b. Far as the Big Bore..... Most Guru's I've ever spoken with will tell you, "You need to open up the ports in the head, on top of the Air intake tube in order to get 'MORE' out of that Throttle body that you'll REALLY appreciate." I'm not saying it wont help ya.... But I'll explain, later, what I think WILL, FOR SURE, as I've experienced it.
2. Within the motor, there are a couple things I'd recommend before adding those other things.
a. The machinist/mechanic you have might be able to slap in some 1MM oversized Valves from Engnbldr.com for pretty cheap. It takes some grinding of the head internals... But think, you're talking about spending HUNDREDS of dollars on this Throttle body and Intake system, right? Along with the valve seats, he could do a lil porting/polishing of the head ports/Intake and Exhaust.
(BUT, I would do the latter suggestions, since you're already gonna dish out some healthy cabbage having the head pulled and repaired.....and this 'specialized work' WOULD BE better to do by just replacing the head with an Engnbldr Street head w/CAM for like 540$ shipped(???)>>>>)
b. You don't really NEED either to get a bit more out of it in my experience(but the OSized Valves CAN be felt).... you COULD just add a 261 CAM while he's in there, have him set the lash at 7 and 9, as instructed by engnbldr.... And then.......
c. Not internal, but ON the motor, I felt an IMMEDIATE difference from the LCE Header(there are others, tri-y, etc., but I just went with what 22reperformance.com recommended to me, personally)..... I have MORE top end, for sure(MY rig does 85mph, NO problem, with 31's.... and could probably do more with adjustments/more skinny pedal..... But I'm in CA, SO WHY, RIGHT? hahaha.
d. Just the CAM and Header I think are the best initial investments you can make.(along with (e), coming up).... If you can wait, it would just take a couple days from engnbldr for the CAM, and at a cost of only 118$ plus shipping(when I got mine a year ago, so you'd have to check)......
e. GEARS! if you're upping the tire size, I'd think about Gears and a Locker.... 2 of the BEST investments(In the opinions, I'd say, of the majority of those on here who've tinkered with these, like myself) you could make to your 4wd! Gears will give you a better/closer to orig. ratio, so that the Mileage on the Odometer would match what you're actually rolling... they would also give you MUCH MORE on the hills, which you'll see can beat up your patience on these 22RE's, lol. The locker, well.... it should go without saying; But, having your rear locked will give you SO MUCH MORE capability when venturing out into the 'wheeling territory'!
Long and short, I'd go for the CAM(while he's in there) and Header(it wouldn't take long to get to ya), and you'd be only out another 440$ or so..... And YOU WOULD feel it! (Along with the header, you WOULD need some 2.25" pipe from the CAT, back to the tailpipe.... That is NOT hard to do on the cheap, trust me(search on here). You'd spend that on the CAI and Big Bore, ALONE, from LCE(more like 550$ OR MORE, with the spacer, BBTB and CAI)
************************************************** ************
JUST MY PERSONAL OPINION! Talk to your mechanic about it... But I HIGHLY recommend the 261 CAM, while you're in there, AT LEAST.... it's a cheap investment for DEFINITELY noticeable results!
03-02-2012, 12:22 PM
#33
Registered User
Thread Starter
I have decided to go with the engnblder 261 cam. I'm about to order it as we speak but I had my mechanic talk to the machine shop about O/S valves and they said that it would cost me more money down the road in upgrading injectors because it would run lean. Anyone have this problem? but after me and the mechanic talked I believe I'll just stick with the camshaft for now.
03-03-2012, 11:18 AM
#34
Good plan! I know several people on here who're running OS Valve set up without injector modification.... Engnbldr sells a head like that, ready to go, and it's 'bolt on' from what I know... But that's interesting what he said. Personally, I'm getting plenty out of mine to meet my needs, ....and SOME DAY, when I find the right project, it will just be getting a 3RZ or 1UZ...... I don't have any real desire to go all buck wild with a 22RE, like an LCE Stroker, etc., ...and besides, it wouldn't pass smog here in CA anyway! lol.(well, it PROBABLY wouldn't, lol)....
That cam and a header will give you ALL you need for now, IMHO. And, well, considering what you were about to spend on the other stuff.... you could probably do that, right? Header and CAM would be around 440$.... Plus, you COULD maybe find a header on CL or here in the Classified's for even cheaper! lol.... I think it compliments the CAM well, .....again, that's my humble opinion!(ok, and some research as well, hahaha).
With the CAM, you're 'opening up' a lil bit. And I think opening up the exhaust side wouldn't hurt... I've enjoyed it. Ask him and see what he thinks.... However, FOR NOW, it's NOT EVEN necessary to notice and enjoy the improvement of must having that CAM in there, alone. Just BREAK IT IN AS INSTRUCTED, DON'T FORGET! K? lol.
That cam and a header will give you ALL you need for now, IMHO. And, well, considering what you were about to spend on the other stuff.... you could probably do that, right? Header and CAM would be around 440$.... Plus, you COULD maybe find a header on CL or here in the Classified's for even cheaper! lol.... I think it compliments the CAM well, .....again, that's my humble opinion!(ok, and some research as well, hahaha).
With the CAM, you're 'opening up' a lil bit. And I think opening up the exhaust side wouldn't hurt... I've enjoyed it. Ask him and see what he thinks.... However, FOR NOW, it's NOT EVEN necessary to notice and enjoy the improvement of must having that CAM in there, alone. Just BREAK IT IN AS INSTRUCTED, DON'T FORGET! K?
lol.
03-04-2012, 06:53 AM
#37
Registered User
Thread Starter
I'll be sure to keep y'all informed as everything moves along. If everything goes as planned the head will be back from the machine shop by Wednesday and the camshaft hopefully will be in by Thursday so I can try it out this weekend!
Does the camshaft come with break in instructons or do I need to get those from engnbldr?
Thanks again guys!
Justin
Does the camshaft come with break in instructons or do I need to get those from engnbldr?Thanks again guys!
Justin
03-04-2012, 08:11 PM
#38
It MIGHT come with instructions.. but mine did not. I told him don't bother, due to speaking to him on the phone a couple times over it. Get some CAM lube, while you're at it. Ask the shop, they'll probably have some...(they might use assembly lube, many do.... But I've been told to stick with the CAM lube by the manufacturers. Tod will tell you what to use/how to break it in.... just ask him if he could float you an email or 'should you just shoot his dad one'. ted@engnbldr.com , is pops, I believe.... He's almost ALWAYS right back to me. He SURELY has a link on many sites with instructions.
Best wishes!
Best wishes!
03-04-2012, 08:32 PM
#39
Registered User
Thread Starter
Thanks Chef with your infinite knowledge hehe I'll be sure to shoot them an email and get their reccomendations. Thanks again and excited to feel my gains with me new cam!
hehe I'll be sure to shoot them an email and get their reccomendations. Thanks again and excited to feel my gains with me new cam!
03-05-2012, 02:06 PM
#40
Just remember, it wont be earth shaking.... It's more of a "Wow, this hill was easier", etc., ya know? With a header, head work like I've done, ...it's definitely a lil peppier, but nothing, still, like even a 3.4, ...or heck, even a 3RZ, lol.
But hey, it's BETTER, and I know that much, lol.
But hey, it's BETTER, and I know that much, lol.
