Shower set-up in my 1986 4Runner
01-18-2012, 05:28 PM
#22
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Well, I agree that a separate LPG or electric water heater is probably not what you'd like to use. On the other hand, any other fluid-fluid heater like trans fluid to water or engine coolant to water will require running the engine to generate heat to heat your shower water so may actually cost you more to operate; the trade off being space for the heater and LPG tank versus some other heat exchange method.
Inca Plastics will likely not sell you a tank directly but may work with you to find what size tank could fit your vehicle's possible locations and suggest a vendor you could buy such a tank from. They are a manufacturer and not a direct to consumer vendor, for the most part, but if they have a surplus tank that fits, they may sell that to you. I'm not going to drop names, other than my own, so if you do talk to their sales rep mentioning "Kirk" from Carson Trailer and Weekend Warrior suggested... who knows.
Many vendors manufacture exterior shower head "buckets" or similar... don't let the word bucket dissuade you. They have hoses and moveable shower heads much like the massage things for your home shower have, but don't use any more water than the typical faucet uses.
Inca Plastics will likely not sell you a tank directly but may work with you to find what size tank could fit your vehicle's possible locations and suggest a vendor you could buy such a tank from. They are a manufacturer and not a direct to consumer vendor, for the most part, but if they have a surplus tank that fits, they may sell that to you. I'm not going to drop names, other than my own, so if you do talk to their sales rep mentioning "Kirk" from Carson Trailer and Weekend Warrior suggested... who knows.
Many vendors manufacture exterior shower head "buckets" or similar... don't let the word bucket dissuade you. They have hoses and moveable shower heads much like the massage things for your home shower have, but don't use any more water than the typical faucet uses.
Last edited by abecedarian; 01-18-2012 at 05:29 PM.
01-18-2012, 05:35 PM
#23
Well, I agree that a separate LPG or electric water heater is probably not what you'd like to use. On the other hand, any other fluid-fluid heater like trans fluid to water or engine coolant to water will require running the engine to generate heat to heat your shower water so may actually cost you more to operate; the trade off being space for the heater and LPG tank versus some other heat exchange method.
Inca Plastics will likely not sell you a tank directly but may work with you to find what size tank could fit your vehicle's possible locations and suggest a vendor you could buy such a tank from. They are a manufacturer and not a direct to consumer vendor, for the most part, but if they have a surplus tank that fits, they may sell that to you. I'm not going to drop names, other than my own, so if you do talk to their sales rep mentioning "Kirk" from Carson Trailer and Weekend Warrior suggested... who knows.
Many vendors manufacture exterior shower head "buckets" or similar... don't let the word bucket dissuade you. They have hoses and moveable shower heads much like the massage things for your home shower have, but don't use any more water than the typical faucet uses.
Inca Plastics will likely not sell you a tank directly but may work with you to find what size tank could fit your vehicle's possible locations and suggest a vendor you could buy such a tank from. They are a manufacturer and not a direct to consumer vendor, for the most part, but if they have a surplus tank that fits, they may sell that to you. I'm not going to drop names, other than my own, so if you do talk to their sales rep mentioning "Kirk" from Carson Trailer and Weekend Warrior suggested... who knows.
Many vendors manufacture exterior shower head "buckets" or similar... don't let the word bucket dissuade you. They have hoses and moveable shower heads much like the massage things for your home shower have, but don't use any more water than the typical faucet uses.
I'll call Inca Plastics tomorrow and see what they can do for me. I appreciate the references.
I'll have to look into the shower heads, like I said I need something that doesn't require a lot of water flow.
Thanks again!
01-18-2012, 05:42 PM
#24
Registered User
Don't you need a thermostat? You could hook the pump to the thermostat and have it recirculate the water from tank through heat exchanger and then have a Y connector and a manual switch for when you want to use it. Just turn the recirculate valve off and the output valve on then flip the switch and you would have water the perfect temperature.
01-18-2012, 05:52 PM
#25
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Just to add... remember the VW Westfalia campers: water heater, air heater, stove top and a full camper in a VW Bus sized space.
What you wan't isn't going to be an easy thing to accomplish, but it is possible.
CHEERS!
What you wan't isn't going to be an easy thing to accomplish, but it is possible.
CHEERS!
01-18-2012, 05:56 PM
#26
Don't you need a thermostat? You could hook the pump to the thermostat and have it recirculate the water from tank through heat exchanger and then have a Y connector and a manual switch for when you want to use it. Just turn the recirculate valve off and the output valve on then flip the switch and you would have water the perfect temperature.
Very true! Thanks again!
01-18-2012, 05:58 PM
#27
Registered User
Okay the problem with your current setup is that you cant easily heat the water with that radiator. It has an input, and an output. People are recommending you buy the Automatic trans radiator because it has the oil cooler in the radiator that will use the heat from the engine heated water to heat the water you plan to pump out.
With your current radiator, you have no feasible method of heating the water short of some kind of heated air source, which will be hard to find in the front of the engine compartment.
The second issue is going to be actually heating the water. Water has a very good property in that it's easily able to dissipate it's heat. So, if you're going to try and run LONG lines from the front of the engine compartment (where your heated source or element is) to the back, you're probably going to lose any heat to the ambient air around. The rubber tube won't have very good insulative properties.
I know on pickups there is a good amount of area between the rear quarter-fender and the inner bedside. Look into maybe a holding tank on the inner fender in the rear.
The next issue i can think of, is going to be keeping the water from freezing.
Lets face it.. With a tank in the bed, cab, under the body, etc etc.. That tank will have frozen water in temps below 32 degrees. With this, you'll have expansion, and possibly cracking of the tank, or deforming at the least. Not to mention the possibility that you blow the lines, or crack your radiator.
The only way to solve this problem will be to purge the lines completely after each use, and run some kind of heated element in your tank to prevent freezing. Which would sort of defeat the purpose of running your heated radiator, because now you're going to be running an electric heater, and on top of that, a radiator based heater.
My .02
With your current radiator, you have no feasible method of heating the water short of some kind of heated air source, which will be hard to find in the front of the engine compartment.
The second issue is going to be actually heating the water. Water has a very good property in that it's easily able to dissipate it's heat. So, if you're going to try and run LONG lines from the front of the engine compartment (where your heated source or element is) to the back, you're probably going to lose any heat to the ambient air around. The rubber tube won't have very good insulative properties.
I know on pickups there is a good amount of area between the rear quarter-fender and the inner bedside. Look into maybe a holding tank on the inner fender in the rear.
The next issue i can think of, is going to be keeping the water from freezing.
Lets face it.. With a tank in the bed, cab, under the body, etc etc.. That tank will have frozen water in temps below 32 degrees. With this, you'll have expansion, and possibly cracking of the tank, or deforming at the least. Not to mention the possibility that you blow the lines, or crack your radiator.
The only way to solve this problem will be to purge the lines completely after each use, and run some kind of heated element in your tank to prevent freezing. Which would sort of defeat the purpose of running your heated radiator, because now you're going to be running an electric heater, and on top of that, a radiator based heater.
My .02
01-18-2012, 06:07 PM
#28
Okay the problem with your current setup is that you cant easily heat the water with that radiator. It has an input, and an output. People are recommending you buy the Automatic trans radiator because it has the oil cooler in the radiator that will use the heat from the engine heated water to heat the water you plan to pump out.
With your current radiator, you have no feasible method of heating the water short of some kind of heated air source, which will be hard to find in the front of the engine compartment.
The second issue is going to be actually heating the water. Water has a very good property in that it's easily able to dissipate it's heat. So, if you're going to try and run LONG lines from the front of the engine compartment (where your heated source or element is) to the back, you're probably going to lose any heat to the ambient air around. The rubber tube won't have very good insulative properties.
I know on pickups there is a good amount of area between the rear quarter-fender and the inner bedside. Look into maybe a holding tank on the inner fender in the rear.
The next issue i can think of, is going to be keeping the water from freezing.
Lets face it.. With a tank in the bed, cab, under the body, etc etc.. That tank will have frozen water in temps below 32 degrees. With this, you'll have expansion, and possibly cracking of the tank, or deforming at the least. Not to mention the possibility that you blow the lines, or crack your radiator.
The only way to solve this problem will be to purge the lines completely after each use, and run some kind of heated element in your tank to prevent freezing. Which would sort of defeat the purpose of running your heated radiator, because now you're going to be running an electric heater, and on top of that, a radiator based heater.
My .02
With your current radiator, you have no feasible method of heating the water short of some kind of heated air source, which will be hard to find in the front of the engine compartment.
The second issue is going to be actually heating the water. Water has a very good property in that it's easily able to dissipate it's heat. So, if you're going to try and run LONG lines from the front of the engine compartment (where your heated source or element is) to the back, you're probably going to lose any heat to the ambient air around. The rubber tube won't have very good insulative properties.
I know on pickups there is a good amount of area between the rear quarter-fender and the inner bedside. Look into maybe a holding tank on the inner fender in the rear.
The next issue i can think of, is going to be keeping the water from freezing.
Lets face it.. With a tank in the bed, cab, under the body, etc etc.. That tank will have frozen water in temps below 32 degrees. With this, you'll have expansion, and possibly cracking of the tank, or deforming at the least. Not to mention the possibility that you blow the lines, or crack your radiator.
The only way to solve this problem will be to purge the lines completely after each use, and run some kind of heated element in your tank to prevent freezing. Which would sort of defeat the purpose of running your heated radiator, because now you're going to be running an electric heater, and on top of that, a radiator based heater.
My .02
1. I really don't see the difference between an oil cooler and my radiator?? Maybe i'm not fully comprehending how the oil cooler works.
2. Heating the water is an issue, i don't need it hot, just not super freezing cold.
3. I've considered storing the water in the inner fender, that's a good idea.
4. I am going to completely purge the system and keep it empty in the winter months.
01-18-2012, 06:13 PM
#29
Registered User
You could use a Jerry can (or however you spell it) on the tire carrier, pop the top and drop in a hose, turn on truck and pump away. I see running the line to your radiator, i bet you already have the auto radiator. then mount a handle held head near the front of the rig. Even at the rear you aren't going to loose that much heat pumping thru the rad i don't think. And if it is that cold out, i'm guessing you aren't spear fishing.
This way your water source is removable, and out of the vehicle. Since you have a powered pump the tank can mount anywhere. just put a hose fitting on the end and a valve so you can hook it up to a hose at a camp ground when you aren't pumping out of a can, i'm thiniking 5 gallons should do fine.
Mount the pump in a location you can easily get to for maintenance and drying it out at least every season so it doesn't freeze and break.
This way your water source is removable, and out of the vehicle. Since you have a powered pump the tank can mount anywhere. just put a hose fitting on the end and a valve so you can hook it up to a hose at a camp ground when you aren't pumping out of a can, i'm thiniking 5 gallons should do fine.
Mount the pump in a location you can easily get to for maintenance and drying it out at least every season so it doesn't freeze and break.
01-18-2012, 06:17 PM
#30
You could use a Jerry can (or however you spell it) on the tire carrier, pop the top and drop in a hose, turn on truck and pump away. I see running the line to your radiator, i bet you already have the auto radiator. then mount a handle held head near the front of the rig. Even at the rear you aren't going to loose that much heat pumping thru the rad i don't think. And if it is that cold out, i'm guessing you aren't spear fishing.
This way your water source is removable, and out of the vehicle. Since you have a powered pump the tank can mount anywhere. just put a hose fitting on the end and a valve so you can hook it up to a hose at a camp ground when you aren't pumping out of a can, i'm thiniking 5 gallons should do fine.
Mount the pump in a location you can easily get to for maintenance and drying it out at least every season so it doesn't freeze and break.
This way your water source is removable, and out of the vehicle. Since you have a powered pump the tank can mount anywhere. just put a hose fitting on the end and a valve so you can hook it up to a hose at a camp ground when you aren't pumping out of a can, i'm thiniking 5 gallons should do fine.
Mount the pump in a location you can easily get to for maintenance and drying it out at least every season so it doesn't freeze and break.
I could also keep everything concealed to the engine compartment.
Not a bad idea.
01-18-2012, 06:18 PM
#31
Registered User
^^^ the radiator has a hook up for an automatic trans. Go look at your radiators on the trucks/4Runner. There are two small hose nubs at the bottom to accept tranmission lines so the trans fluid can be circulated thru the radiator.
An oil cooler can do the same thing, but some oil coolers are air cooled exchangers, not water cooled(like the radiator).
Heating your water is the easiest part of this equation, take two pieces of hose and matching clamps out to your truck right now, hook up the hoses, now you need a pump and H2O.
An oil cooler can do the same thing, but some oil coolers are air cooled exchangers, not water cooled(like the radiator).
Heating your water is the easiest part of this equation, take two pieces of hose and matching clamps out to your truck right now, hook up the hoses, now you need a pump and H2O.
01-18-2012, 06:27 PM
#32
^^^ the radiator has a hook up for an automatic trans. Go look at your radiators on the trucks/4Runner. There are two small hose nubs at the bottom to accept tranmission lines so the trans fluid can be circulated thru the radiator.
An oil cooler can do the same thing, but some oil coolers are are cooled exchangers, not water cooled(like the radiator).
Heating your water is the easiest part of this equation, take two pieces of hose and matching clamps out to your truck right now, hook up the hoses, now you need a pump and H2O.
An oil cooler can do the same thing, but some oil coolers are are cooled exchangers, not water cooled(like the radiator).
Heating your water is the easiest part of this equation, take two pieces of hose and matching clamps out to your truck right now, hook up the hoses, now you need a pump and H2O.
All makes sense now!
I assume (obviously) the rad keeps the water and coolant separate. All makes sense now...
01-18-2012, 06:27 PM
#33
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^^^ the radiator has a hook up for an automatic trans. Go look at your radiators on the trucks/4Runner. There are two small hose nubs at the bottom to accept tranmission lines so the trans fluid can be circulated thru the radiator.
An oil cooler can do the same thing, but some oil coolers are air cooled exchangers, not water cooled(like the radiator).
Heating your water is the easiest part of this equation, take two pieces of hose and matching clamps out to your truck right now, hook up the hoses, now you need a pump and H2O.
An oil cooler can do the same thing, but some oil coolers are air cooled exchangers, not water cooled(like the radiator).
Heating your water is the easiest part of this equation, take two pieces of hose and matching clamps out to your truck right now, hook up the hoses, now you need a pump and H2O.
01-18-2012, 06:27 PM
#34
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I have used a solar water bag and put the water in a garden sprayer pump it up and it works great simple and you can buy them at any ace hardware or walmart get one with a bendable sprayer wand and you can attach it to a tree or the rail on your roof rack with a simple spring clamp.
works great to knock the sand or mud on your feet before you jump in your truck.
works great to knock the sand or mud on your feet before you jump in your truck.
Last edited by AZSPEED; 01-18-2012 at 06:29 PM.
01-18-2012, 06:29 PM
#36
I have used a solar water bag and put the water in a garden sprayer pump it up and it works great simple and you can buy them at any ace hardware or walmart get one with a bendable sprayer wand and you can attach it to a tree or the rail on your roof rack with a simple spring clamp.
01-18-2012, 06:38 PM
#37
Registered User
Initially, you'll have decently-hot water up until you enpty the transmission cooler (which I imagine wouldn't take long, it's MAYBE 1 quart capacity?). And the fresh water from your tank, running through the transmission cooler (ala hot water radiator) to your nozzle will simply NOT have sufficient time spent in the trans cooler/radiator to exchange heat.
Put simply, once the water at your nozzle goes from hot to cold, you'll have to let the new water in the radiator sit for 5 or 10 minutes with the engine running.
01-18-2012, 06:41 PM
#38
Registered User
Invest your time and money into making a hand pump that presurizes a jerry can like a garden sprayer, paint it black (solar heat) , put a goose neck on the top, and instant shower, or run it thru the rad first.
I like the garden sprayer idea.
I like the garden sprayer idea.
01-18-2012, 06:44 PM
#39
Registered User
Possibile solution?
I've always toyed with the idea of wrapping steel pipe along the exhaust system. Whether it be a Volkswagen Bug or a 1967 Piper air plane, this is the method used for cabin heat... and it works darn good!
I'd have a tank mounted beneath the Runner's rear end, a transfer pump mounted just outside the tank, and the outlet from the pump wrapping all the way up the exhaust to just AFTER the catalytic converter. It would then break off to a nozzle coiled up inside the engine bay somewhere.
You could spot weld the pipe along the exhaust AND fabricate heater boxes to actually enclose the pipe and exhaust together.
Thus, you're exchangine heat through TWO different methods... convection and radiation.
As for the, is this pump fast enough question?
Get a 1 gal milk carton and flip your shower on at home. Time how long it takes for the gallon to fill up (stop watch). That ought to give you some idea of what you want.
I'd have a tank mounted beneath the Runner's rear end, a transfer pump mounted just outside the tank, and the outlet from the pump wrapping all the way up the exhaust to just AFTER the catalytic converter. It would then break off to a nozzle coiled up inside the engine bay somewhere.
You could spot weld the pipe along the exhaust AND fabricate heater boxes to actually enclose the pipe and exhaust together.
Thus, you're exchangine heat through TWO different methods... convection and radiation.
As for the, is this pump fast enough question?
Get a 1 gal milk carton and flip your shower on at home. Time how long it takes for the gallon to fill up (stop watch). That ought to give you some idea of what you want.
01-18-2012, 06:54 PM
#40
As much as I LOVE the idea of utilizing the transmission cooler, I'd be concerned about quantity. Have you ever seen a transmission cooler? It's at best the size of the original radiator you pictured.
Initially, you'll have decently-hot water up until you enpty the transmission cooler (which I imagine wouldn't take long, it's MAYBE 1 quart capacity?). And the fresh water from your tank, running through the transmission cooler (ala hot water radiator) to your nozzle will simply NOT have sufficient time spent in the trans cooler/radiator to exchange heat.
Put simply, once the water at your nozzle goes from hot to cold, you'll have to let the new water in the radiator sit for 5 or 10 minutes with the engine running.
Initially, you'll have decently-hot water up until you enpty the transmission cooler (which I imagine wouldn't take long, it's MAYBE 1 quart capacity?). And the fresh water from your tank, running through the transmission cooler (ala hot water radiator) to your nozzle will simply NOT have sufficient time spent in the trans cooler/radiator to exchange heat.
Put simply, once the water at your nozzle goes from hot to cold, you'll have to let the new water in the radiator sit for 5 or 10 minutes with the engine running.
I've always toyed with the idea of wrapping steel pipe along the exhaust system. Whether it be a Volkswagen Bug or a 1967 Piper air plane, this is the method used for cabin heat... and it works darn good!
I'd have a tank mounted beneath the Runner's rear end, a transfer pump mounted just outside the tank, and the outlet from the pump wrapping all the way up the exhaust to just AFTER the catalytic converter. It would then break off to a nozzle coiled up inside the engine bay somewhere.
You could spot weld the pipe along the exhaust AND fabricate heater boxes to actually enclose the pipe and exhaust together.
Thus, you're exchangine heat through TWO different methods... convection and radiation.
As for the, is this pump fast enough question?
Get a 1 gal milk carton and flip your shower on at home. Time how long it takes for the gallon to fill up (stop watch). That ought to give you some idea of what you want.
I'd have a tank mounted beneath the Runner's rear end, a transfer pump mounted just outside the tank, and the outlet from the pump wrapping all the way up the exhaust to just AFTER the catalytic converter. It would then break off to a nozzle coiled up inside the engine bay somewhere.
You could spot weld the pipe along the exhaust AND fabricate heater boxes to actually enclose the pipe and exhaust together.
Thus, you're exchangine heat through TWO different methods... convection and radiation.
As for the, is this pump fast enough question?
Get a 1 gal milk carton and flip your shower on at home. Time how long it takes for the gallon to fill up (stop watch). That ought to give you some idea of what you want.
Good point about the stopwatch idea, I don't need something with a lot of power (like my shower head) just something to rinse off with.
