92 TOY

i would think that if your timing chain were "off a tooth" you would have mashed your valves already.....not sure, but i believe this to be at least partially true.

to see if the distributor is off...i would think you have to pull the valve cover and have a re-do on the insertion of the distributor.

i could be full of it too..........see what the other more experience members say

Philbert

iTrader: (2)

Thanks Toy - I always wondered about that, since it's an interference motor....never heard any weird clicking, clanking or anything violent...just idles up, down, up, downn, up, dooooown....till death.

Before tearing into it, I'm going to let some additional members chime in. If it's something simple as the dizzy being off a gear, THAT I can live with, and likely figure out.

Crossing fingers and waiting for the 22RE gods to wake up and log on

Phil

92 TOY

lemme see who i can poke

hilandfrog

Have some funny running first start up issues my self.....

I'll be watching this.

Repo

snobdds

Before you take everything apart again I would do the following:

1. Take off the valve cover and rotate the engine to see how the bright links line up with the timing marks on the cam sprocket. It will take at least four full turns to bring everything back to true TDC. This is where everything is at 12 o'clock. This will tell you if you skipped a tooth.

2. Even with a tooth off, it will still run, albeit with the adjuster maxed out to compensate for the off time. My motor jumped time by a tooth a long time ago and i still drove it for quite a while. Granted 4th and 5th gear were gutless.

3. I would make sure everything is hooked up correctly and reinstall the diszy per the FSM specs (engine at 5* and rotor pointing to 12 o'clock when inserted and ending up at 10 o'clock when fully seated).

Good luck

Philbert

iTrader: (2)

Thanks snowbdds fo the tips - this is encouraging.

When I was checking (after the sprocket slip but before putting the cover on), I only had rotated the crank two or three times and never saw the bright link (I know I have one since I installed it this year and it was...bright).


If I'm reading correctly, you mention having the engine at 5* BTDC when installing the dizzy at 12:00? When I installed it, I had it at 0* (@ TDC), installed at 12:00, and it clicked CCW to about 11:00.

2 questions:
1) Does it need to be at TRUE TDC (bright link showing up top - may need up to 4 turns to get here) when I install the dizzy?
2) Does it need to be at TDC or 5* BTDC when I install the dizzy?

Thanks guys - really appreciate you chiming in here!

snobdds

I always have it at true TDC with the bright link on the cam at around 11:45 and the bright link on the crank at 6:00. Then I rotate the engine to 5* (this is all in the FSM under the Dizzy section) and put the rotor in the dizzy at 12 o'clock. Then I install the Dizzy and the rotor should rotate back to around 10 o'clock. The dizzy should end up in the middle of the adjusting range and you should be good.

If you have a 22r, then you install it when the engine is at 0*, if you have the 22re (which you have) then you install it at 5* btdc.

If I was at my office I could get you a link for the dizzy section of the FSM, but I'm not so you might have to search a bit.

Good Luck

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

x2!!! I was about to 'move on' at one point, when suddenly, I read, "COAT these bolts in Sealant". Don't know if you remember mine, Phil, but upon installing my front end when getting the motor back, I snapped A BOLT, going into the timing cover! HAHAHA, Yeah, a bolt, didn't strip the cover. And, actually, when I removed the H20 pump again, the stud end was sticking out A TEEEEEEEEEENy bit, allowing me to get it out. Toyota had EXACTLY what I needed, tempered and so I replaced them all. I used a hard nylon brush bit in the holes to make sure they were clean, popped the thing in there and VOILA, she's holding well. I am NOT saying "don't use Locktite", .....however, I would ONLY use it if you're using all new bolts and studs(sorry if I missed you doing that).

As far as the timing issue, mine is spot on and is still idling down at times and wanting to die. Cold-purrr. Initial Open loop, CRAP. Fully warm, PUURRRR, except, now, it wants to idle down a lil when sitting at a light, etc....even when it's fully warm. I'm only mentioning this because YOU COULD have a sensor issue, no? Maybe due to overheating it?(btw, I'm STILL trying to figure mine out! thanks 92 and others!).

Also, when installing the dizzy, as the Dentist above mentioned, you have to line it up to #1, just past(clockwise), then as you drop it in it will click back a tooth. At this point you should see the lil notch on the distributor gear, just COUNTER clockwise of the gear to gear join. I'm not sure if this would cause it to stall though, Phil....

I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. Did you replace the head gasket? I have to read back and see what, if anything, I've missed! REALLY sorry about your dilemma, Phil!

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Also, I didn't want to spend the cabbage, but I went with all factory hoses....they're WAY better quality, from what I can see, and they fit PERFECT, each time. Sure, the 41$ for the PCV hose and Front-lrg. vac hoses was NUTS....but it was worth it, as those hoses are REALLY high quality and, well, mine lasted 23 years from the FActory..so why mess with purrfection, eh? lol. Do you think it's possible that your coolant Temp Sensor has taken a dump? I'm sorry to ramble on here, I will do more research and chime in if I can help. PULLING FOR YA, PHIL!

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Sorry, but whether it means anything or not, i have to add;

Does anyone else notice that in that video, it's PURRING, with what seems to be perfect timing up until it starts to idle down? I'm trying to learn, myself, so I am just wondering....is this what an 'off dizzy' or jumped tooth reveals itself as?

Lumpy

I don't believe it's a timing issue at all...As the Chef said "it's Purring" then idles to a halt. If the timing was off as much as a crank tooth it would not run so smooth. Also i don't think it will just skip a tooth from the cam pulley falling off a bit.

From what I can tell it's a vac leak somewhere or possible the TPS causing issues. I'd also make sure it's burped properly. If the temp sensors are not getting the correct signals it will cause odd anomalies.

Attempt to adjust the idle screw up and see what it does...Also check and recheck the connections to the AMF and the TPS as well as the temp sensors.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Wishing you well, Phil! I got the day off so I'm just surfing and trying to figure out my problem, too! GRRRRRRRRR, lol. I can't be sure on what I said, above, but it just seems to me that it's running so smooth, first starting, that it would more likely be fuel-related? Just sayin.....not that it means anything, hahaha.

Lumpy

Hmmmm another good point. If the filter is clogged the pump may not be able to keep up and then it runs dry. Orrrrrr maybe the pump is just not keeping up. Might wanna check on that as well...

Burp, burp, and burp the rad. Park on a hill or put the truck on ramps. That'll help.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

I guess it's a good idea to rule out the timing, as if it gets too far out he could smash all the BRAND NEW SHINY VALVES! lol...Wait, that's not even funny as a joke! EEEEEk, sorry. Anyway, once you eliminate or confirm the timing, I guess we'll have to see from there. You sure your coolant temp sensor is working properly? Sure the TPS is working properly? Sure the IACV is not sticking open once warming up? Pinch that sucker off and see if it changes? It shouldn't after fully warm....but again, I know, you don't wanna be letting it run if the timing is off.

Still rooting for ya, Phil!

Chef

Philbert

iTrader: (2)

Thanks EVERYONE for the ideas and the time spent reading this, watching the video, and doing extra research (Chef!) - really appreciate it.

I'm stuck at work all day and won't have a chance tonight to check it out but will this weekend for certain.

I'll check the timing with the valve cover removed and cranking the engine with a socket to get to true TDC, and see if the bright link lines up. Will also check the dizzy at TDC.

Fuel filter is new last year, less than 5,000 miles- pretty sure it's not that.

Fuel pump - maybe. Will check if I can't find other issues.

I had the radiator cap off during all this, so it would burp; but I can't think of how air in the system would cause this to happen, especially so early?

So, because it's not smashing valves or going nuts from the getgo, you guys think it's *not* a timing issue eh? Any harm I could really do by restarting it several times while I diagnose (I got scared after 4 failed attempts)?

I did undo 2 plugs when working on it - they both seemed to plug into the thermostat coolant line - one was a brown conntector and one a green one. I lableed them and am pretty darn certain I put them back correctly; they are the 2 sensors/plugs sticking out just the right of the VTV and to the left of the BVSV in the image below:



Not sure what they are - I just wanted them out of the way and wanted to clean them with electronic contact cleaner while I was doing the job....if I'd hooked them up incorrectly, could it cause something like I'm seeing?

92 TOY

air in the system caused a very uneasy few seconds of loping idle when mine 1st got running. the temperature sensor valve bugs out because it's got nothing to do but bug out because there is no fluid.......for me this was very short lived because of my 2 valve thermostat.....perhaps yours is not reaching proper thermostat opening temperature and still has air trapped....i would start it again, run it with the radiator cap off and try to run it through it's burps...LUMPY and CHEF sound like they are effectively eliminating the tooth off theory.....though nobody but you will be able to figure that out............get it to TDC.......until you see that BRIGHT LINK line up........good luck bud....keep us in the know.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Fhewwwwwwwww, wow, I'm not sure I feel comfortable telling you "sure, just run it as long as you need to." I was just saying, from watching your vid(listening actually, lol), it sounds like any other PURRRRRRRing 22re,....initially of course.

I just learned something, today. When at the dealer, my old buddy, been there 20 years in parts, asked me if I'd tried the thermo-time switch. In my engine, it's threaded right into the thermostat housing, vertically. He showed me on his puter, "See, read that", and I'll be danged if it didn't say "Thermo-Time Temperature Switch"....then the key abbreviation, just after, "--EFI--"!!! Ok, so, I'm not saying this means ANYTHING, ....but he basically explained how his went bad and was screwing with his idle, BADLY. He has a brand new extra, at home, and he's giving it to me, 8am. Why not, right?

Also, regarding the coolant temp switch(GREEN), and the CSi time switch(BROWN), .......the green goes on the right and brown on the left....and to be honest, I'm not sure they're the same size thread, are they? I want to say that the CSI is DEFINITELY bigger, but you'll have to check on that. If it IS bigger, well then you couldn't possibly have switched them, eh? lol.

Not saying ANYTHING, definitively, Phil.....I wouldn't wanna get yer hopes, up, etc.....Neither would I want to cause you to damage your rebuild. I think, if you KNOW, tomorrow, that you're NOT having a 'tooth or gear' issue....well, then move to the next likely suspect.....FUEL/or FUEL DELIVERY. ANY one of those sensors can completelyyyyyyyy throw the air/fuel out of wack, right? So, get out the ohm meter and GO TO TOWN, COWBOY! lol.

PS> how's the weather up there? I WANT to get up to Auburn in July......BUT MY BEAST HAS TO BE FIXED! GRRRRRRRRR! LOL.

Philbert

iTrader: (2)

Hi guys!

So, I got about 30 minutes tonight to go get it to TDC and check out the bright link. After about 4 turns on the crank, lookie what popped up to say hi:



Yes, that's the bright link, at the top, over the "dot", where it should be. Looks like I didn't slip a tooth after all. THANK GOODNESS....now onto solving this problem.


I verified the #1 cylinder was at TDC by making sure the crank pulley was at 0*, the bright link was at 12:00 (duh), and that the top of the cylinder was at the top of its stroke (using a narrow screwdriver through the spark plug hole).

I then took off the dizzy cap to check on things and it appears to be at 11:00 or so:




Chef - the CSI and Coolant temp sensors never moved - I just unplugged them. I think the connectors are the same size, and I may have mixed them up (even though I labled them...). I didn't get a chance to verify that tonight.

92 Toy - I think you may be onto something. I'm learning still about cooling systems...to burp it, I need to do more than just have the cap off while warming up, right? I need to gently squeeze the upper hose a few times to get the bubbles out? More?

All - does the dizzy look right? The Chilton manual didn't really give me more direction tonight than to insert it so that it looked like it does (relatively).

Chef again - we were just up in Grass Valley at the in laws over the long weekend - amazing weather, but tons of pollen. In the high 70s - great ping pong, beer and BBQ weather We try to stop at Auburn Ale House every time we go up there, and grab a couple growlers of their Gold Digger IPA (if you're into that sort of thing....).

Thanks again guys - looking forward to figuring this thing out hopefully over the weekend!

Goodnight!

Phil

92 TOY

Phil,

my distributor might be different (i was told it was) but it is the ORIGINAL one....i have a little nub sticking up that apparently denotes something as far as lining stuff up (likewise i could not find any info about it), but when i put the distributor in , it apparently was in the right way so these pics might help you.

i am going to see if i can post my pic and your pic side by side (sort of) for comparison.

see the nub?





in relation to the cam gear



MINE....correctly set



Yours......(as i write this, i , myself have to compare the 2....so i'm not saying you are right or wrong)

92 TOY

i see the red mark you have on your distributor....i assume that was for reference when you were removing it........does the gear have that nub?

i would assume that if your nub falls right where mine does, then you are good.

however, your thingy (see, i don't know everything) appears to be pointing at the 11 o'clock position and mine at 10 o'clock....see if the nub falls right BEFORE the cam gear as mine does.