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86-95 Trucks & 4Runners 2nd/3rd gen pickups, and 1st/2nd gen 4Runners with IFS

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Old 03-16-2013, 05:43 PM   #1
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Exclamation Help Fixing Broken Speedometer/Odometer

Hey there YotaTech, It's been a while... you been workin' out?

I'm dealing with the issue of a suddenly dead Speedometer/Odometer in the DLX cluster of my 1994 Toyota 22RE 4x4. Everything else works fine in the big box (Gas Gauge/Engine Temp.) but these two seem to have quit overnight or some time whist I was at work today... And I'm going to Death Valley in about 14 days, and I'd like these to work during that trip.

Here's my situation:Click the image to open in full size.

Symptoms of affliction and the research I've done here in the last 20 minutes has shown me:

A) I likely have a Electronically Driven Cable Speedometer.
(see bellow: http: //www.yotatech.com/f116/broken-speedometer-cable-how-replace-238688/ )

B) The simplest way to check the condition of the Speedo/Odo cable is to disconnect both ends, and give 'er a twist... and have someone with eyes inside see the gauge end turn, or not.

C) The most likely causes of my problem are either a 1) broken cable inside of the cab from the Gauge Cluster to the Cable Sending Unit (any idea where this is?) OR 2) a stripped plastic gear/input shaft on the sending unit.
(see bellow: http://www.yotatech.com/f116/1990-yo...r-help-235999/ )

I've looked at this very part on my truck before when replacing the oil gasket in the transfer case on the rear-output shaft yoke, almost pulling the entire rear cover on the T-case without needing to.. and needless to say I reinserted it with no qualms from the truck... but now, it's busted.

What baffles me, is that it worked just fine yesterday, and I've done no 'abrasive' damage / driving to the truck in the last 2K. It seems like a connector might have just 'slipped off'...

SO, my questions to you all...
1) What plan of Diagnosis would you suggest? Simply pull the gear and shaft from the T-case, and check for striping? OR should I pull the gauge cluster and look at the rear of the cluster to see if something just 'disconnected'.
2) IF my issue is the little input shaft/splines/gear.... can I get that from Toyota these days? Or... should I start prowling for Junk Yard parts?
3) Any other advice?

THANK YOU SO MUCH.
Regardless of whether or not I hear from ya'll, I'm digging into this thing come Monday AM. Probably should be prepping for Mid-Terms... but whatever, it's just a gut-class anyway!
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Old 03-16-2013, 11:34 PM   #2
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Pretty sure it's an electronic speedometer, same year as mine. Easy enough to find out once you put your head under there, big cable vs little wire.

Sorry not alot of help, you'll have to do the tests, nut might of saved you some prep time
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Old 03-16-2013, 11:48 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Co_94_PU View Post
Sorry not alot of help, you'll have to do the tests, nut might of saved you some prep time

No worries man, I thank you for replying at all. I think that I can get my situation handled, but figured that you'd all be more informative than my very stoic FSM.

Thanks for the input. Updates to come!
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Old 03-17-2013, 03:47 AM   #4
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I have a similar but different problem on my 92 in that, my speedometer has stopped but my odometer thankfully keeps clicking along. my temporary solution was to download an app to my phone that uses GPS to track my speed. I know for sure mine is an electronic rather than cable driven mechanism.

I found this on ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/350519808929...84.m1423.l2649 and figure it might be worth my while to try to change it out to see if it helps. I've been told that if the sensor itself is bad, that the odometer does not work and that if (as is my case) just one component does not work, it is likely the cluster. I don't like that answer and think I may just change that small part rather than swapping out clusters....changing odometers etc etc etc.

will be curious what you figure out, but to me, it sounds like it's the sensor.

if your only concern is not having a speedometer, download the app...the one I use for my android phone is ULYSSESS or something like that. it's pretty accurate when I use it versus the speedometer in one of our other vehicles.
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Old 03-17-2013, 08:59 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 92 TOY View Post
I know for sure mine is an electronic rather than cable driven mechanism.... ....I've been told that if the sensor itself is bad, that the odometer does not work and that if (as is my case) just one component does not work, it is likely the cluster.
Thank you 92 TOY, so good to have some venerated knowledge in this thread! (no to disregard anyone else, though!)

I'm thinking the same. As described above, when working on my Oil Seal, I pulled the VSS w/ Shaft and Plastic Gear attached out from the T-Case, and everything went back together fine. No binding, etc. ((I'm assuming, of course, that the 'VSS' is the little thingy that the Shaft & Gear are attached to))...Click the image to open in full size. (CLOSE UP)
Click the image to open in full size. (FURTHER BACK, 'VSS' in Center of the Frame.)

Now, I'm going to pull this little dealie-bob out just to make sure the little plastic grooves on it are still, well, groovy, but if its not that... then I figure it'll be time to get into the dashboard. and scope the connections.

My local Scrap-Yard JUST got in a 22RE 4runner, a 90, if my memory serves me... and the cluster is obviously the SR5 type.... This might be a good time to fix the problem AND upgrade clusters with a good SR5 oil sending unit.
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Old 03-17-2013, 09:02 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _RaStA_RoCkEt_ View Post
This might be a good time to fix the problem AND upgrade clusters with a good SR5 oil sending unit.
...of course, this is presuming that 4runner and Sr5 Clusters are created equal, I can get an Sr5 Oil pressure Sending Unit that works in 14 days, and that the 4runner is an Electronic cluster AND that I'm lucky enough to have a DLX that's been wired to have a Tach already in it's ECM.

Well, time to see what my Junk broker wants for it!
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Old 03-17-2013, 11:32 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 92 TOY View Post
I found this on ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/350519808929...84.m1423.l2649 and figure it might be worth my while to try to change it out to see if it helps.
Don't waste your time or money on a new sensor, if the odometer is working it has to be an issue with the guage it's a single unit. Broken coil windings would be worst case, best case it's an off the shelf electronic component you could swap out (like a resistor).


OP. I'm not sure where the VSS tests are in the FSM... But if you have cruise controlyou can use it's diagnostics to verify the sensor functions.
BE-61 PDF page #6.
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Old 03-17-2013, 01:42 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Co_94_PU View Post
Don't waste your time or money on a new sensor, if the odometer is working it has to be an issue with the guage it's a single unit.
Thanks for the info, I certainly am dealing with a broken speedometer AND odometer. I think that from what I'd read in the aforementioned threads, if the little VSS grooves strip... then I think I'd found my problem. If not though, I see the problem being, like you said, in the dash.

I'll be pulling this thing apart tomorrow. I'll send pictures of what I find, and we can move along with that.

Lastly, for some freaky reason, someone keeps rolling by my house and yelling out 'RASTA ROCKET!!!!'. I guess my name proceeds me, even in real time!

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Old 03-17-2013, 02:18 PM   #9
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that was me. I had to run for smokes.
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Old 03-17-2013, 03:14 PM   #10
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Sorry I was talking to 92 and didn't put his name up there

Like I said if you have cruise control put it in diagnostics mode and it'll tell you if it's a dash or sensor problem. You can also check for code 42 stored in the computer, but I don't recall offhand if the VSS splices off to the ECM or gets routed thru the cluster guage.

And the SR5 cluster swap is very popular and handy. Definately worth the effort of pulling the dash, but not worth some of the crazy prices I see for the cluster
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Old 03-18-2013, 04:35 PM   #11
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ALRIGHT.

After a long and strenuous day... I'm renouncing the 'working on the truck' thing today. I've met opposition, it seems, in nearly everything this day. Further, I feel given the current attitude and the fragility of the dashboard... I don't want to bust anything in these last 2 hours before the sundown.

I'll do it tomorrow, i say. Procrastination Sensation.
:rage:
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Old 03-18-2013, 05:56 PM   #12
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Yep 20 year old sun beaten ABS doesn't handle well in the cold, best for a high noon showdown

Keep at it you'll get it fixed
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Old 03-19-2013, 07:25 AM   #13
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Today's the Day... Give me 2 hrs to take a mid-term... then Party time, Excellent... WOOooWOOoooWOOOOOOOO
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Old 03-19-2013, 11:21 AM   #14
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Hello. Update one. Pulled the VSS on the Transfer case... Nothing looked outa' whack. The little connector is still connected, and the Gears on the input shaft are all in good shape. Took my Camera and set it recording (to watch the speedo for movement) whist I Turned the car 'on' (w/out starting the engine) and spun the gear on the VSS. Nothing. No jumping needle. So... onwards into the dash. Any suggestions?
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:38 PM   #15
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Roadblocks and Updates:
Got a used VSS from a local junk dealer, dear friend he is, let me take it on credit and bring back if not working/solving my problem....

His was physically identical to mine in every way EXCEPT. 1: it says 21-2 on the underside whereas mine says 21-1. AND it had a 20-spline gear on it standard.

I was assured that this would solve my problem, and that if I simply took out the gear assembly and put it into this one, it would work.

Promptly, I took it home, changed the gear, and connected it. Upon turning the car to 'on' and turning it BY HAND, my observer (a friend who's here from out of town) couldn't see anything turning. I'm back to square one, it seems.

Now, I also went to Toyota of Santa Cruz, and O'Reillys, and pulled up part numbers/prices for a new VSS. O'Reillys said something like 296, and their computer showed it only as 'RWD'. Part Number: SN7349 Line: BWD
Toyota of Santa Cruz claims that it's 'about 250', and their part number depends on my vin. It'd be either 83181-35051 OR 83181-12020.

Any advice gents on where to go next?

To answer CO, I don't have cruise control. Everything seemed well connected and in working order in the Dashboard... I'm not sure what the next step is beyond replacing the VSS with a New one.
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Old 03-19-2013, 03:18 PM   #16
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Did you pull the stored codes yet? Do you get code 42
Quote:
SPD signal is not input to the ECM for at
least 8 seconds during high load driving
with engine speed between 2,200 rpm
and 5,000 rpm.
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Old 03-19-2013, 05:04 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Did you pull the stored codes yet? Do you get code 42
I'm not exactly sure how to do this? Do I need an electrical tester or some kind of reader? I know my ASE roommate has a OBDII reader, but that's for newer than 96' isn't it?
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Old 03-19-2013, 06:42 PM   #18
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http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...es/index.shtml
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Old 03-19-2013, 07:31 PM   #19
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Alright, so it seems that I take a paperclip and short the necessary connection.... and therein the check engine light flashes a corresponding number of blips to indicate a problem. My question is then, do I/can I do this to diagnose a VSS problem if my check engine light is not already illuminated because the ECU has sensed the problem?

As it stands now, I have the VSS (and my dashboard) on the floor of my room, the hole to the T-Case covered with a Gorilla tape, and a non-illuminated (by the ECU because of a trouble code) Check engine light....

Thanks So Much, CO 94, for this insight and 'hand holding' through this period!

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Old 03-20-2013, 09:31 PM   #20
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Further Updates:
Here's the cab as it sits now, since yesterday at about 2pm.
Click the image to open in full size.

Further stumping continues as rain today has kept me sitting here thinking about what the best plan of action is. After googling it, it seems that to the best of my understanding the ECU of my truck shouldn't be holding/storing codes when there's no check engine light illuminated. Therein, I am not sure whether or not the aforementioned '4Crawler Diagnostic check' is really applicable for my situation. Also, having (what I believe to be a W56) manual transmission without cruise control makes comparing this situation to the comparable and (seemingly) more frequent issues of Speedo/Odo death in A340H Automatic that seems so common.

Also, after reading that these VSS's could be tested when out of the car, I promptly tried to connect mine to one my Roommate graciously let me use. However, without knowing what prong of the 3 is the 'ground', it seems of little use to me. If anyone has a practical way of using a voltmeter to test these things, that'd be great!
Here's a photo of the near identical VSS that a local scrap yard sold me, which I connected, and did not work. They're nearly the same!
Click the image to open in full size.

I lament that I cannot find my answer so far. My trip approaches, and I have to work nearly every day... so I suspect it'll be hard to find time to complete this project before hand if I'm just randomly replacing parts. (it'll start with VSS1 and then move on to the Gauge Cluster).... but KNOW there's an answer to this out there more visible/accessible than simply 'throwing money' at it.

Tomorrow A.M. I plan to go 'over the hill' to a scrap yard I know has VSS's in my size, and most likely cost out a Sr5 Cluster in case this whole plan for simple VSS replacement = fix doesn't work. If it's deeper than just gauges or sensors, I'm S.O.L.!

Should I:

a) Run Diagnostic testing through the ECU system (ala 4Crawler's tips) regardless of the fact that I have no 'drivability' or CEL light currently?

b) Purchase a new/used VSS of IDENTICAL specifications and connect and hope for fix?

c) Pursue a new Cluster? (DLX/SR5)

d) Some combination of these?


Any suggestions would be appreciated, dear fellows.
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22RE 'til the death of me!

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Old 03-20-2013, 09:31 PM
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