jped1981

A little help for those looking at the Downey Long Travel Kit as an option to the Total Chaos kits.

Downey LT test drive

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This past Friday was real interesting regarding my truck suspension....so I have been considering the Downey LT kit. I know most peole on here bash the kit due to the lack of a coil over and the porsche axles. So I was thinking about picking up their rear leaf springs, and calling it a day. So I go to Downey, and they had a great lookng truck out there which is the company truck. Its a 91 4x4 with their LT kit, exhaust, and fiberglass. I look at the truck, and im pretty intrigued. I take a shot in the dark and I tell the salesman that im seriously considering getting the gen 2 caddy kit. Basically the salesman says that the gen2 kit is the heavier duty kit for more serious offroading. But their LT kit is pretty capable in its own right. So I ask them if I could take a ride ride around the block. They agree!!! The following is my review of the Downey LT kit.

So I go for a ride around the block, and granted we did not do any off roading, but we did go through a couple speed bumps. The ride was great! definitely a big difference over stock! Ride had great on road manners, and the speed bumps seemed to get sucked up pretty well by the suspension. I was definitely impressed. Now I have never ridden in a truck with any other type of long travel kit, so I dont have much to compare it too. But looking t a completeprice tag for a front and rear suspension at $3110 in parts is definitely a plus in my book, especially with the way it had performed. I would assume that a similr truck wth a total chaos front and rear would most definitely be a better riding and handling truck, but the cost is just killing me!

The truck also had some motor upgrades, and 4.88 gears. I really enjoyed the way the truck rode, and the way it felt more powerful than mine. Granted I was in the passenger seat, and not the driver, so I dont really feel the skinny pedal. The exhaust sounded great in the low RPMs , but at the higher RPM It sounded pretty high pitched. This is true with all 4bangers out there so the exhaust is more of a reference thing. It would be nice to see some dyno charts to see the hp and torque increases. The truck also had some low back racing seats, I didnt as what brand it was, but they were really comfortable!! Looked like a beard sportster loback.

As far as part quality and bling....well nothing looks better than some mean looking king coilovers, and a wide stance. As you all know, the downey kit has no coilvers, so I looked at the welding quality of the arms. the welds were pretty good, being that I am a structural engineer, I have seen my fair share of strctural steel welding. The welds had a very even distribution, and the connectins looked strong, granted I did not do a full penetration test, but the welds did look good. The arms themselves looked like an upgrade overstock, but they dont look as strong as the total chaos arms. (I think the total chaos arms are a larger cross section tube, I didint measure the diameter, but maybe someone can chime in on this) The shocks utilized in the kit is a 10" 5100 bilstein. I believe the bilsteins used are adequate for light trails and light prerunning applications, but anything really extreme, I would assume should have a remote reservoir for longevity. Overall the kit looked strong and durable.

Downey off-road seems like a great manufacturing company. Its been around since the seventies, and seems to make a wide variety of parts from motor upgrades to suspension upgrades, to chasis components. The salesman were very helpful in giving me the test ride, and answered all my questions.

All in all, the truck felt pretty good. It felt strong, and the suspension was very comfortable on a flat street, as well as driving on the speed bumps. I Have come to the conclusion that the downey kit is great for anyone that is wanting a good upgrade for lighter preruning and trail capable and a great daily driver, then this kit is definitely worth looking at. If you would like to go for more extreme prerunning then the total chaos with coilovers is definitely the way to go.

Im stll kinda torn, I still really like the TC gen 2 kit, but im starting to think that it might be overkill for my usage. but as a guy dont we always like to overkill??? (V8 mustang GT F&*K gas prices!!) But then again, in my case money is an issue, and I dont think I will be 20 feet in the air with my truck anytime soon, (or will I???)

norcalsvx

ive been looking into a LT kit as well , i rode in my buddies 92 4x4 w/ total chaos gen2 kit with coilovers and it was so much better than my set up (downey dual shock w/ bilstiens), i've also looked into the downey kit but it didnt really like it as much. the coilovers where the way to go for me (part desert runner part rock crawler)

jped1981

I would like to ride in a TC gen 2 kit as well. I think it would give me a good comparison on what to do. I like your idea of part rock crawler part desert runner. I want something similar too. Norcal, have you ridden in a downey long travel setup? or the TC gen 1 setup? i figure the TC gen 1 and the downey setup is pretty much equivalent.

86Original

Hey Jped, Where'd you go to school? Do you have your PE yet? EIT?

jped1981

PMd you 86original

jped1981

So I am really considering the downey LT kit. Fortunately, I got a test drive in the company truck. Anyone ever buy this kit and have any problems with it? I would really like to know how these have held up over the long term before I make the purchase. Not to mention does anyone have regreta on staying with torsion bars over getting a coilover kit?

Update, I called downey this morning, and they are out of stock!! They sold out and willnot be stocked till arond the end of summer. I guess Ill wat till then in the mean time im getting some 4.88 gears.

ewong

There's threads talkin about the downye kit and its ummm "merits"

jped1981

Ewong, you seem to know alot about your long travel systems, and seem to be very anti downey products. I wll admit that I do not know much about truck suspensions and there best configurations, but I did return to downey with a couple more questions on their long travel system. I was wndering what your opinion was on the general response that I was getting from downey. The overall feeing was that TC kits are overkill without upgrading several things such as further frame and engine bracing. The larger shocks and shock hoops used in the TC kit will induce significant stresses on itself as well as the frame. So whle it is a great kit, it is overkill unless you upgrade the entire truck chasis. The downey kit is supposed to be the best kit for ff roading without requiring the need for further custmization. THey advertise the same 12 inch travel without the need for coilovers keeping the kit as simple as possible. Downey claims that the other kits show and sell you a small part of a radically modified truck which is great for a full race truck, however not necessary even hazardous to the regular Joe's truck. While there kit will work great for any situation that any regular joe would encounter. Your thoughts?

norcalsvx

coilovers are the future

CC_yota

I've been looking into this for a while and Downey just seems to behind the curve on IFS. They make good products from what I can tell but don't keep up with advancements in technology as well. From what I've read on the desert forums the Downey kit is very similar to the first TC kits in that the arms are only 2" wider and require 930 cv's and expensive custom axles. Those seem to be the main complaints minus the heim and uniball conversations.

You also have to realize that Downey is trying to sell you a product so they're going to try and dissuade you by making claims against a competitors product. I imagine they're are plenty of people using the TC kit without full cages or even just engine cages that haven't had any problems. The hazard comes from people who get this suspension and think they now have a race truck and take it past it's limits. I imagine that if the TC kit is that hard on vehicle then it wouldn't be so popular.

norcalsvx

yea thats the problem kids get a TC kit up front with stock rear and try to be a trophy truck out at the dunes and end up flipping. My buddies didnt have a engine cage (or any cage at all) and he rolled it about 5 months later.

jped1981

Hey guys,

I was pretty aware that by going to downey, they would definitely say there kit is better. I was just thinking that perhaps simplicity is the key for longevity in these kits. I spoke to Jim sickles President of Downey regarding the TC gen 2 kit and the use of coilovers. He believed that in order to get the coilovers in correctly, and reinforce the shock hoops, you needed an engine brace. Apparently he had developed a prototype, and realized that the simpler torsion bar kit was more durable (notice I said "durable" and not "stronger"). Now I guess I cant discredit a test if he says that he did it. I would however like to see how the TC gen 1 kit holds up in comparison to the gen 2 kit.

One of the things I like about the Downey kit is the bisltein shocks. They are 75 a corner vs a 2.5 reservoir shock for the TC gen 1 kit. I guess the trade off is in the cv axles, however I would think that one would be more likely to blow a shock first before an axle.

I guess what Downey is saying is that untill you build a full trophy truck, there LT kit is the best. Your thoughts?

T-1000

What else really needs to be upgraded? Maybe a bar to keep the front end from spreading, some body armor?

jped1981

According to downey the coilover shock hoop needs to be braced across the top like a engine brace, and that the frame needs to be braced at the bottom to keep the rails from spreading. They also believe that the 2.5" coilovers are over kill. The TC kit apparently overleverages the frame due to the 3" over. so that should be corrected. Again this is according to downey. So this should be taken with a grain of salt. Apparently during the design of their prototypes, they tested several different configurations to failure. From their testing, the coilovers overstressed the shockhoops which would start to rip itself apart I think the eccentricity between the shock hoop location and the frame rail could be quite intense and may torque the frame but you would have to be doing some major jump I assume in order to do that. I do agree with alot of Downeys design criteria, for example simplicity for the regular Joe. I think that since most of us would not seriously be racing the Baja 1000 and would most likely just use our trucks as daily drivers and weekend warriors, perhaps serious racecar parts like fox or king shocks maybe overkill. A coilover setup would probably ride better, but the question arises on the design of the shock hoops since it becomes a long cantilever. So again, unless the design gets complicated with further bracing, damage to the frame and kit may ensue. THoughts?

tc

All I know is that with the TC kit, anything likely to break I can get replacement parts for at just about any parts store or junkyard.

Try finding a custom 930 CV in Moab ...

CC_yota

Plus I just have a hard time believing that a company with the reputation that TC has would disregard the need for extra bracing or fail to inform their customers as to what is necessary for their kit.

Now, I like the Downey kit but there are more dislikes than likes for me. I don't like single shear shock mounting, exotic or custom parts, and only being able to fit 2" shocks. Trust me it doesn't take much to heat up and have a 2" shock start to fade.

And, I don't see where the notion of simplicity is coming from...

jped1981

Hey CC yota,

I noticed the single shear shock mount as well. Im wondering what kind of forces that piece is designed for myself. However, if the calcs show that a single shear part is all I need, then it should work. From what Ive learned, when things are placed in double shear, you double the shear capacity of the connection. For example for simple numbers, lets assume that a certain bolt in single shear has a rated shear capacity of 100 lbs. when placed in double shear, the capacity becomes 200 lbs. Granted this is assumng that the bolt holes dont fail. but then again lets assume that from my calculation, my bolt will never see anything beyond 80 lbs. Then why put it in double shear? it will simply add to manufacturing costs. I would also rather have the connection fail at the shock mount then risk twisting the frame because the shock mount transfered its load to the frame rail. Perhaps it was a bult in fail safe?

I dont know much about shocks and shock fade, so I guess I cant comment on that. What I meant by simplicity, was the lack of intricate shock hoops, upgrading steering components. No need for additional frame bracing (as stated by downey). I also thought about the exotic parts like the porsche cv axles, but according to downey they are suppose to be of very hgh quality able to withstand high horsepower applications, as well as provide greater angulation. I think the argument is that the regular daily driver/weekend warrior would not be able to put there car through the abuse that the porsche axle can withstand so it no longer becomes a weak link. However, I am wary that no matter how strong something is, there could be a flaw in manufacturing that could render your axle useless... and you're right getting an axle in the middle of nowhere would be pretty scary.

If only downey would get their stuff on the market already I would have their kit!! The one thing bothering me is that for some reason the control arms are not in stock and im starting to get a bit impatient!!

tc

If the CV's aren't the weak link, then what is?

The hubs? Not if you have AISIN.

The diff? Ooohhhh - kinda hard to fix that on the trail, not where I would want the weak link ...

jped1981

Hey Tc,

Glad to see theres people out there reading my review. When I say "weak link" What I mean is that the CV axles no longer become an issue. According to downey, they are very strong and durable and can with stand the abuse that peple would put on it. Perhaps I shouldnt call it a weak link, but more of a weak point. The idea was that our diffs will probably be your standard toyota diff probably geared and locked. So from their website, they wantedto stay 2 inches over instead of the 3" which would use the T100 axles. So they used the porsche axles. i would assume that the idea was that these axles are stronger and provide a greater angular movement than the T100 axles and should last a long time. I also believe that a weakness of any long travel kit or any off road vehicle is the shocks. the downey uses $75 bilstein shocks vs a $350 dollar sway a away or fox shock. I assume that a shock would probably go out first before an axle, so I would like to use a cheap and easily accessible replacement such as the bilstein shock. Again, I dont have much off road experience so perhaps you could enlighten me which have you busted first cv axles or shocks? I would like to ride in a TC truck one day. I have ridden in Downey's own company truck granted it was around the block and a couple speed bumps, but it was very comfortable and seemed very capable. After talking to Jim Sickles, it seems his design philosophy was to provide a kit for the regular joe not a full race truck. Granted I think his marketing is alot of brand bashing, but I believe he does have some good ideas that would make his kit better suited for a daily driver weekend warrior, for example, his use of greaseable ball joints over uniballs. The use of torsion bars to save cost. The use of stock steerng components.(Apparently total chaos says that there kit is to rough on stock steering so it should be upgraded) and the use of bilstein shocks. Ialso like the fact that it comes with a rear suspension package that is suppose to match the front. After talking to a shop called SD truck shop, it seems like one hell of a deal! $2800 for front and rear suspension that will work great for my usage. (not exactly planning on pushing the limits with this thing occaisional weekend day trips, and construction sites). I hate to sound like a downey commercial, im just trying to share with the forums what ive learned from looking at the kits. Everyone seems to knock the downey option,and I figured id give them a chance and visited their shop. everyne was very friendly, and the president gave me a ride in their truck. I believe he put alot of thought into his kit, and I figured I would share what I learned from him to the forums. I apologize in advance if I sound like i am dissing any of the other kits. I am still myself questining what downey did in their design and if ther assumptions are valid.

tc

I think shocks and CV's are loaded in different manners and conditions resulting in the failure of one will have no effect on the other.