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Cylinder Honing

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Old 01-01-2010, 04:58 AM
  #41  
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watch the process of how its done the right way

pleanty of videos to go around..

http://www.22reperformance.com/22RE%...20Process.html
Old 01-01-2010, 05:37 AM
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i did no wrongs. Even gave good advice to watch man video's on car's and truck's and engine show..

it it was me i would do all that work just to have to take it back out again
Old 01-01-2010, 05:46 AM
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OK, if this was my engine, and it had the same problems as yours, this is what I'd do.

1, The thing would come out and get opened up and gutted.

2, The bores would be checked and then work from there. Pistons have to do with this to, if you have a scuffed piston odds are you have a scuffed cylinder to match. Depending oh how bad the scuffing is would depend on where I go from there on out.

3, lets assume that all is well with the cylinders and pistons, new rings are in order. I would hone or sand as Ted has noted to as close as I can to the ring makers spec.

4, I would then clean the block just like I did when it came back from the machine shop.

5 I would then put new bearings in and check clearances. You can reuse the old bearings if money is tight, but I'd still check them for clearance. If I failed to do this I would be awake at night worrying, but this is just me I guess. I don't pull and tear down engines for fun, so I'd hedge my bets toward it staying in the frame rails for a long time.

in short I'd do the work that needs to be done, and I wouldn't leave any thing that was close to questionable.
Old 01-01-2010, 06:47 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by 91Toyota
Yes, I'm going to check all of the cylinders out before I install the new rings.

This is not a racecar, so tolerances aren't severe.

What happens when you install piston rings upside down??? I have even compression in all the cylinders...so we can throw out the idea of poor compression. I don't know if I put them on upside down or not. I know for a fact that the oil rings were installed in line with eachother.


First of all HAPPY NEW YEAR People!!!

OK the OP already stated he was going to check the cylinders so Im not sure why people still keep telling him to do this , maybe his post was missed so I posted the quote.

Next He doesnt even Know if he put the rings in up side down ..now Im not an expert on engine building but everything ive read about putting rings in upside down says that its not the end of the world.(still have to do something about it though) But dont throw your engine in the trash!!!


so I guess the only thing i can say is to the OP as to the answer to your original question in post #1 read post 39 you should find it there.

Last edited by RMA; 01-01-2010 at 06:48 AM.
Old 01-01-2010, 06:49 AM
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muratic acid is a good way to clean up your block... get some wire wheel attachements and hot water... after your done cleaning the block... spray it down with water... then get a blow gun and use your air compressor to blow off all the water. or use your old ladies blow dyer.. pretty effective way to dry all the water... too... spray the whole block down with wd40 and cover it in some big contractor trash bags so the air can not get in..
Old 01-01-2010, 07:25 AM
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everyone needs to check out this site.. http://www.wiseco.com/PDFs/Catalogs/...etsRodsEct.pdf
Old 01-01-2010, 08:39 AM
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So, we all agree to have the cylinders checked out? LOL

I'm thinking it would be much easier to just rebuild another 22re. Unfortunately i'm not rich and I can't have my truck sitting there in my garage for months...especially in winter!

Because what if the cylinder isn't round? Then I have to pay for boring, honing, cleaning, rebuild kit with larger pistons, crank polished, bearings, and it just gets expensive.

What i'm trying to say is I don't know if I can afford something unexpected. Looks like I have to wait until summer
Old 01-01-2010, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Gnarly4X
I'm not everybody, but I checked it out. So.... what's so neat?

gNARLS.
Apparently the hone does remove any material, but it clearly states to use oil to remove excess material...so how does that work?????
Old 01-01-2010, 08:58 AM
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a hone usally takes off .001
Old 01-01-2010, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Gnarly4X
91,

Write this down.....

If your engine has 30K miles on it since the pistons and rings were installed, and if you are going to install new rings, asked the manufacturer what they recommend. If the cylinders were bored properly, and honed properly, you might get away with what Ted suggested. I would still mic the cylinders just be sure. Until you inspect the condition of the cylinders, pistons, and rings, you are just speculating. In any case, pulling the block and doing it right will usually be better in the long run, unless you don't care and are planning on selling the vehicle.

gNARLS.

Ok,

Engnbldr sells Rock parts. Thats what I used, and thats what I'm assuming is what he uses too. And, that is why he suggested that.

I can still call around and ask. BTW...what does mic mean? I think it means measuring the cylinders but its been used as shorthand in the thread. lol
Old 01-01-2010, 09:18 AM
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i would just thow the block in the trash and just go buy a new one.. you can get a stage 5 drag engine for under 7k thats pretty cheap if you ask me.. and it you no treating every stop light like a drag strip your just not living..
Old 01-01-2010, 09:27 AM
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he live less then 50 miles for Engnbldr
you could have already been ther and back by now with real advice from the experts..
Old 01-01-2010, 10:08 AM
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I sent them an email, whats the difference?
Old 01-01-2010, 10:26 AM
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what was the problem with the engine in the first place?

or did i miss something
Old 01-01-2010, 10:44 AM
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if u dont have the money.. just pickup a loan, its still worth the money...
Old 01-01-2010, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by TOYOTA 1
what was the problem with the engine in the first place?

or did i miss something
Long time ago bought truck with broken piston rings and f'd up the cylinder walls. Then tried to rebuild it but messed up because it was raining and I was riding my motorcycle everyday. lol
Old 01-01-2010, 12:53 PM
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stay focused and take your time and all will work at well.
Old 01-04-2010, 07:28 AM
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what is your progress..
Old 01-05-2010, 02:03 PM
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Was someone arguing with me? Nah, it couldn't be.

Emery cloth isn't a hone, so I guess the subject may have changed.

Regardless, the next most important question should be "What about break-in after install?".

So, on those lines, read this.

This is a quote from http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

Warning:
This is a very controversial topic !!

I wrote "Break-In Secrets" after successfully applying this method
to approximately 300 new engines, all without any problems whatsoever.

Links to this article now appear on hundreds of motorsports discussion forums from all over the world. The reason is that over time, large numbers of people have done a direct comparison between my method and the owner's manual method, and the news of their success is spreading rapidly.

The results are always the same... a dramatic increase in power at all RPMs. In addition, many professional mechanics have disassembled engines that have used this method, to find that the condition of the engine is much better than when the owner's manual break-in method has been used.

The thing that makes this page so controversial is that there have been many other break-in articles
written in the past which will contradict what has been written here.

Several factors make the older information on break-in obsolete.

The biggest factor is that engine manufacturers now use a much finer honing pattern in the cylinders than they once did. This in turn changes the break-in requirements, because as you're about to learn, the window of opportunity for achieving an exceptional ring seal is much smaller with
newer engines than it was with the older "rough honed" engines.


In addition, there is a lot less heat build up in the cylinders from ring friction
due to the finer honing pattern used in modern engines.

The other factors that have changed are the vastly improved metal casting and machining
technologies which are now used. This means that the "wearing in" of the new parts
involves significantly less friction and actual wear than it did in the distant past

...

What's The Best Way To Break-In A New Engine ??
The Short Answer: Run it Hard !

Why ??
Nowadays, the piston ring seal is really what the break in process is all about. Contrary to popular belief, piston rings don't seal the combustion pressure by spring tension. Ring tension is necessary only to "scrape" the oil to prevent it from entering the combustion chamber.

If you think about it, the ring exerts maybe 5-10 lbs of spring tension against the cylinder wall ...
How can such a small amount of spring tension seal against thousands of
PSI (Pounds Per Square Inch) of combustion pressure ??
Of course it can't.

How Do Rings Seal Against Tremendous Combustion Pressure ??

From the actual gas pressure itself !! It passes over the top of the ring, and gets behind it to force it outward against the cylinder wall. The problem is that new rings are far from perfect and they must be worn in quite a bit in order to completely seal all the way around the bore. If the gas pressure is strong enough during the engine's first miles of operation (open that throttle !!!), then the entire ring will wear into
the cylinder surface, to seal the combustion pressure as well as possible.


The Problem With "Easy Break In" ...
The honed crosshatch pattern in the cylinder bore acts like a file to allow the rings to wear. The rings quickly wear down the "peaks" of this roughness, regardless of how hard the engine is run.

There's a very small window of opportunity to get the rings to seal really well ... the first 20 miles !!

If the rings aren't forced against the walls soon enough, they'll use up the roughness before they fully seat. Once that happens there is no solution but to re hone the cylinders, install new rings and start over again.


Fortunately, most new sportbike owners can't resist the urge to "open it up" once or twice,
which is why more engines don't have this problem !!

An additional factor that you may not have realized, is that the person at the dealership who set up your bike probably blasted your brand new bike pretty hard on the "test run". So, without realizing it, that adrenaline crazed set - up mechanic actually did you a huge favor !!

I've used the Break-In procedure described on that site. It's worked flawlessly for me.

I bet someone might argue that too. Not me though.

That's just more personal experience talking, so what do I know?

Last edited by MudHippy; 01-05-2010 at 02:05 PM.
Old 01-05-2010, 07:19 PM
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Heck, I ought to toss in my $0.02 too...40 years ago last month I had my '65 El Camino 327 engine out and on the garage floor to fix a rear seal leak. Doing it the hard way. I was younger.

I had read an article in "Hot Rod" with tips from an engine builder from one of the notable shops in the L.A. Calif. area. One thing he said was that it wasn't really required to "glaze bust" (hone) cylinder walls if just replacing the rings, especially if using moly-filled rings (yes they had them back then too). I bought a set of moly rings and a gasket set at the local Chevy dealer, wiped down the cylinder walls good with an oily rag and put it back together.

It didn't smoke or use excessive oil, and had good compression. He was right in my experience. I know that's not the conventional wisdom, but thats my experience.

Still leaked at the rear seal.


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