faubrunner64

exactaly bumpin yota my poin exactaly i bought heads from them also and they have bben off 4 times alredy 2 because they were nto macined flat they were belt sanded?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! and second the ĊĊĊĊed up my valve seats so i had under 50 psi in 3 out of my 6 cylindars. DOA sucks dont give them any money!

TNRabbit

Ensure your heads & block aren't warped your you'll be replacing head gaskets no matter what type they are or how much you torque them!

AlaskaToy

wrong wrong wrong. Torque specs are "dry" specs. Add lube and you have absolutely no idea what tourqe your are really end up with.

I'm not syaing the head bolts shouldn't be tighter than spec - I have no idea. But the advice of lubing the threads for "true torque specifications" is very misleading.

GSGALLANT

Toyota's torquing procedure for OE headbolts on the 3VZE calls for lubing the threads prior to installing the bolts. Are you suggesting the procedure for studs would be different?

Bumpin' Yota

Even ARP calls for lubing their studs with their own special kind of lube....

I did some digging over at arp fasteners and apparently if they have the stuff in stock, it's 10 bux a bolt, 2 bux a nut, and 1 buck a washer. That works out to 208 bux before shipping from ARP and takes 5-7 days. If they have to make the bolts I THINK the prices are the same, only a longer wait.

This is all researched from using google last night.

snap-on

well i think thats an even worse idea. Youll get a stud gauld up and jammed in the block so that you THINK you have 60lbs when the clamping force applied to the HG is only a fraction of what you need.

Ask engbldr (or search out his thread) about his procedure for torqueing head bolts in order to avoid premature torque specs.

I have "heard" the stud kits (ARP, DOA whatever) are really expensive way to F up your new rebuild.

I went with engbldr head bolts and would again.

Bumpin' Yota

snap on - im willing to bet dollars to donuts that the studs DOA sells are NOT ARP hardware!! The supra guys have minimal to no complaints what so ever, and they are torquing to a LOT more than recommended....

Im going with Engine Builder's bolts too because I cant shell out 200+ to ARP directly, and well hey its ENGNBLDR, ya CANT go wrong with his stuff!

GSGALLANT

Although I haven't installed them yet, I've got ENGNBLDR bolts sitting in a box in my garage ready to be used when I get to the point of re-installing my heads. I actually bought the whole headgasket kit from ENGNBLDR, and I've just started dismantling my 3.0L for my first ever DIY head gasket replacement. We'll see how they work, but I've heard nothing but good things about them.

MonsterMaxx

I'll chime in on the F'd up stuff from DOA. Horrible experience an engine build that didn't last 1000 miles. Then he insists he'll take care of it if I ship it to him, but while it's still in transit he calls and leaves a message that I'll pay for this but good. His 'inspection' reveals sawdust in the intake (from building a crate to send the dead engine back) and declines any warranty. Then make me pay $1500 for 'inspection' to get my parts back.
Guy is a total scheming crook and the name of his company pretty well describes my experience. He F'd me but good - didn't even get kissed first. Buyer Beware.

Toyota Headbolts are torque to yield and should only be used once.
Rolled threads and cut threads are very different in strength.
10.9 is about a grade 5 fastener, metric grade 8 equivelent is grade 12.9

Can't say much more about the HG issue. In two trucks and three engines I've had at least a half dozen HG failures. My current failure may be HG, or POS DOA parts, unsure as of yet - I've lost a cylinder at 30,000miles and it's blowing oil like a mosquito fogger.

Bumpin' Yota

so maybe i should go buy 16 grade 8 metric bolts for my truck then?

AlaskaToy

No, sorry. Let me clarify: I am only saying it is unwise to make lubing fasteners a standard practice prior to torquing them as a means of "accurate torque". If the manf says lube them, then of course you should. But most applications torque specs are called out assuming dry/clean threads. Clamping force of lubed threads torqued to a given setting more than doubles over "dry torque".

Bill

I've been kinda wondering this myself through this whole thread.

The last time I bought bolts, I only paid about $6 for 8, grade 8 metric bolts from a local industrial fasterner supply shop. Can you guys forsee any issues using "off the shelf" stuff, if I took the original head bolt with me?

AlaskaToy

only issue i can see is the stockers are torque to yield - they are meant to stretch a finite amount, increasing the applied torque (from the initial point the torque wrench broke) and minimizing torque variance between fasteners. off the shelf stuff (bolts) are not torque to yield; so how would you know how much (past OE spec to torque them??

Bumpin' Yota

well engine builder's arent TTY since they are reusable, they are still in the elastic phase of stretching like ARP's hardware, where as the OEM units get pulled beyond no return...at least I think...

I was looking at ARP's website and they have a downloadable cataloge and in it they have torquing specs for the given bolt sizes and given ductile strengths...



Question: can one warp an aluminum head from overtorquings headstuds or other clamping fasteners?

Tigerstripe40

I got my engine back today.
Looks good.

The holes were bored .050 over.
Teh crank is .020 under.

I asked the machinist about the DOA head studs I have.
He told me to toss them in the garbage.

So I will be ordering some bolts from Engnbldr shortly.

$150 lesson learned.
*sighs*
Edit

Perhaps I should weld these together into a metal sculpture F U and ship it to DOA racing?

Bumpin' Yota

oooh i have a better idea!!!

contact ARP and send them one of the studs for metalurgical analysis (they do that for free) and ask them if these are their studs. Also mention to them that you were sold these studs under the ARP name by Tim at DOA...

I wonder how fast the litigation would begin agianst DOA if that was the case....hehe

Tigerstripe40

I bought the studs from Ganoid off of this board.
I know buyer beware, and I am not cross at Ganoid.
I thought I had read somewhere that the DOA studs were arp studs.
But I might send one to ARP for grins.

Greg_Canada

I'm 98% sure they are NOT ARP... or else they would sell them themselves... they dont make the right size for our motor.

Tim must have got them done by someone local.,,,,