d0ubledown

if you have to ask...you dont need it


sounds like your runner is lifted already...wheel it as it is till it breaks, numerous times. THEN decide whether or not to swap it. '...if it aint broke, dont fix it'

deathrunner

I think for most of the weekend warrior kind of guys here, IFS is fine. If you're the kind of wheeler who is doing hard enough trails to necessitate an SAS, you wouldn't be asking.

Now as far as "beefing up" IFS, I think it is more important to think about what you are adding, rather than just throwing stuff at your truck.

Stock IFS suspension travel is very limited, something like a ball joint spacer maxes out the range of stock travel. The only way to get any more "Safe" travel out of IFS is to get longer arms.

After building my truck and making my own stubborn decisions, I have a better picture of whatr is truly important. I don't regret anything I have done, I just would have changed the order.

#1 lock the rear

#2 sliders

#3 brace the rear of the a arm mounts

#4 Rear bumper

#5 Then worry about suspension

That's my .02

rezrunner92

LOL great point, although I would say more like 80%.

I love my IFS, I don't do any rock crawling and have NEVER gotten stuck in my runner. It is all about what you are going to use it for. SAS is awesome, but only the person driving really knows what they need. I use my truck to get to out of the way hunting spots and archeology sites. My biggest use for my truck is driving back and forth to work and taking my daughter to nursery. SAS just doesn't make sense for me. My Scout II was solid axle and I loved it but I still got stuck in it twice. Experience is sometimes more important than equipment. Sometimes.

rezrunner92

That is exactly what I was thinking for my plan on the "new" runner. Good plan.

AxleIke

Whats even funnier still is that a couple of the guys i know who've got trucks that have $10k+ swaps still advocate keeping IFS for as long as possible.

If you have the money to swap, and the desire to swap, then do it. Lots of folks on here have well built swaps, and did it becasue they wanted to. They wanted the challenge, and wanted a more capable truck. They had fun doing it. Only a handful of people ever "needed" a swap.

If you want to swap, great, do it. Please don't try to fool us with a BS line like "i needed to swap, IFS Sucks, the internet told me so". Then you are just an idiot.

Rcross

Well I have 2 IFS Toy's, the 88 4Runner will be my DD and weekend warrior which will keep the IFS. I will be installing BJ spacers and 63" chevy springs in the rear with longer travel shocks. It will also get a 1" front diff drop and I will also be running the metric equivalent of 33" AT's. That way it will still ride nice but be more than capable enough to deal with the spur of the moment local trail rides.

The 91 Ext Cab is already sitting on 35" MT's with a flat bed and I have busted just about everything you can in the IFS set up. This truck will be getting a SAS in the very near future along with a brand new set of 37" BFG MT's with 5.29s and locked front and rear. This will be my Trail Rig that will mostly be the trailer queen to and from the long distance rides that I attend.

If you are going to build a DD and a weekend warrior without any serious rock crawling I would vote you stay with the IFS. I beat the hell out of my IFS and it never broke until I put the 35's on it.

drew303

No SAS here.. I have stock, tho tweaked and bent IFS. Haven't broken anything on it yet and pretty much beat the hell out of it. Tho it is the limiting factor in the setup. Flex is pretty sad and overall quality of ride i think sucks.

As far as the SAS goes, this summer. Have the axle, locker and other parts, just saving up the pennies for the TG kit.

I agree with most of what everyone has said here SAS's are for the folks that are really into the wheeln' seen. It's more than just a need to get from A-B, its I want to take the hardest route from A to B.. the longest hardest, steepest, muddiest, scariest way.. LOL well thats me.. Thats the thrill in 'roadn for me =)

tc

Sorry if someone mistook what I said, thinking I meant you'll never break. That's just silly.

My point was that for 99.9% of the people who will read this, money is better spent on armor and lockers than "beefing" the IFS or SAS.

And IF you're going to lock the front on IFS, an ARB is the only way to go because of the aforementioned weaknesses of the steering setup.

Just my opinion based on my experience of 'wheeling an IFS rig locked front/rear HARD.

ron86toy

sas...here is my 86...rides better now than with the ifs(which suprised the hell out of me.although it is not my DD it does see alot of pavement...but there is no way I could have gone places that I have with a built to the hilt IFS

drew303

^^^ nice rig man! =)

Marc P

My only issue with my IFS was flex. Once I wore my control arm bushings out, it was over...

Here is a fun IFS video Seth (Deathrunner) made for me..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6g-37cbegUI

And the last few seconds of this video is of the same line that I almost flopped on, but with a solid axle...

http://www.protrux.net/videos/Super9.mov

ron86toy

thanks....soon to be wifes rig...couple of better shots of it




this one is going under the knife as soon as it warms up....getting 4.7 auto,atlas 4sp and 39's(I using my f.axle off the red one since they will hold up to the v8 and putting one w/longs back in it for the wife)

Ric

Im not sure about 2nd gens, but 3rd gens flex ok

Sure it could be better, but Im dealling with what I have.
Its gonna be a long time for me to do a SAC, unles I win the Lottery

BTW, sweet videos

Elvota

I have a SAS. My vehicle is a daily driver.

In my opinion, the best two things about a SAS are simplicity and strength... flex is nice, but I have seen plenty of "limited flex" IFS rigs go tons of places.

The problem with parts that break is that they usually don't break when or where you want them to. Sometimes it can be damn near impossible to get a wounded rig off the trail... so why not beef up what you can while still working in your garage? I would think the "wheel your IFS until everything breaks" attitude would burn one out on 4Wheeling. I just want to concentrate on the run... not getting home from it.

Will a locker and armor get your farther than just a SAS? For sure. Will you look forward to trying harder and more remote trails with IFS that you have lost confidence in... probably not.

Check your needs, and your budget and be honest with all the costs involved in doing a SAS.

I wonder sometimes how many people have regretted pouring a bunch of money onto a IFS system? I wonder how many people have regretted putting a bunch of money into a SAS? I for one have no SAS regrets.

glenyoshida

So what are the risks for olharleyman if he does leave his IFS, goes out on the trail, and breaks something? I did exactly what TC mentioned. I was in 2nd gear low had the engine as high as 4700 rpm and I think a tire grabbed at some point. I drove back down the mountain with a broken axle. Are there other things in an IFS that are likely/might break making the rig unable to drive back that a SA would not?

AxleIke

the steering has a tendancy to crap. without spares, that can be a no go. This pic usually sums it up pretty well.



Also, broken axles can happen where the axle is undrivable, and must be changed on the trail. This can be permanently fixed with longfields in a SA, but those are pretty expensive

Hy-steer is much stronger. I'm sure there are people who've broken it, but for most folks, it's pretty indestructable

ovrrdrive

You may want to get that front end aligned efore you drive it any further...

Btw, it kind of goes without saying, but if you're running trails like that I think anyone here would recommend an SAS...

AxleIke

That truck has been swapped since that picture was taken, and that isn't my truck. It is all better now. glenyoshida asked if there was ever a time that IFS trucks can't drive off the trail being broken, and i thought that pic was a good example.

slosurfer

tc, I know that is not what you meant and I just pulled your quote for a reference. It was mainly to reiterate that stuff is going to break. I agree, the ARB is the way to go in IFS, and if I were planning on keeping it, I would go that route. I think your rig is a very good build and guide for others to look at. I also think that if you are going with IFS and are willing to spend the $$ on an ARB, why wouldn't you look into beefing up your suspension and steering? To me it is all part of making the vehicle more reliable and useful. At this point, I am not too concerned about the cv's (pretty easy to change and with correct bumpstops usually last a long time) I am more concerned with the steering and have to do realignments all the time. I don't like driving 500 miles to go wheeling for a week and then on the way home wonder how bad my alignment is and what my front tires will look like when I get home.

AxleIke

Oh man, I have the same thoughts going through my head every day. My junk isn't alignable at the moment, and i'm paranoid to drive it at all. I wish there was an alignment tool that you could keep in the tool box, and align the truck as soon as you got off the trail.

Unfortunetly, the beefing of the steering isn't the issue. You can actually set the toe (the only alignment setting that steering affects) in camp very easily with a tape measure, a jack, and a couple wrenches. The problem is when caster and camber get out, and those are much more difficult, since they deal with the control arms.