CoedNaked

I am interested in those who have either a 1st (88-89) 2nd gen 4runner (90-95), or a 2nd gen (88) or 3rd gen (89-95) pickup with the 5 speed manual transmission and the 3vze engine can iterate about your towing expieriences.

I want you to answer the following questions:

1. Year/Model of your vehicle (obviously it's a 5 speed manual with the 3vze if you respond).

2. Any performance modifications you have done to date and the "in your opinion" how much of a difference they have made both from a seat of your pants point of view and perhaps any dyno information you may be able to shed (probably unlikely I would imagine). When I say ANY, I Mean ANY. This could include things that might give you a marginal improvement such as synthetic oil or synthetic gear lube, and things like that. Or even advancing the timing and running 91 octane.

3. What you tow and how much it weighs "wet" (IE loaded, full of gas, etc). Perhaps relate other factors like your vehicle was loaded as well, or you had a bunch of people on top of that - perhaps individual expiereinces.

4. How did your vehicle fair towing what you answered in number 3. above. What type of terrain did you encounter (IE hilly areas, or flat areas, offroad, or other). Perhaps relate stock performance to performance towing with any modifications (the difference the modifications made in your vehicles ability to tow).

The reason I ask this is I'm just trying to get a feeling of what my vehicle can tow so I can know where to set my boundaries the day I decide to buy a boat somewhere down the line.

Thanks for any input.

VA_Yotaman

A couple of times a week, I tow a 5x10 utility trailer with a pressure washer and about 100 gallons of assorted fluids. (Water and chemicals). My truck is completely stock. (SR5 V6). I feel fairly comfortable with this. I have the water tank directly over the trailer axle, and most of the other weight on the tongue. This has accelerated U-joint wear, but that's probably more from backing uphill up my driveway. I have Amsoil gear lube in the tranny, and Amsoil severe gear in the t-case and rear.

Yesterday, I rented and stump grinder and pulled it on the trailer they provided. It was all I would want to tow with the Yota. It was hard to stop, and I could tell I was really riding the clutch a lot more. I had to run no low than 3k RPM, or I was really feeling it.

On another note, my buddy used to pull a 20' Javelin bass boat with his 88 V6 on 33 inch BFG's. He obviously had a hard time, but it did it.

Personally, I wouldn't want to pull and more than maybe a 17 foot Bayliner run about.

aviator

A lot of questions open up with this thread Coed...
With trailer brakes you can go heavier then without. Since you have the pickup you could go with a fifth wheel set up. I saw a guy pulling one of those small 5th wheel travel trailers with a nissan so you know we could do it easy.
The other thing to factor in is where you'd be draging what ever it is your draging...
if you just want to cruise up and down the coast you could pull more than if you were trying to get through Roger's Pass. The limiting factor there would be overheating and clutch burn out. Don't forget what goes up must come down, plan on using a lot of engine braking coming down hill you would definitely want a heavy duty clutch and you may want to lookin to getting a jacobs brake installed if posible.
Personally I've pulled about 3500 lbs. in a trailer fitted with surge brakes and you can really feel the difference the trailer brakes make it stopped a lot faster than without
[I had the brakes in de-activated mode for the first stop light by mistake].
I did not notice any major problems but you could feel the weight back there in the handling of the truck [which was loaded up also].
hope this helped aviator

CoedNaked

Well I would definately get trailer brakes on anything over 1000 pounds as is recommended by most. The deluxe brakes stop the truck but they aren't heavy duty by any stretch of the imagination as far as stopping more than the truck and the weight it can carry regularly. I'm generally most concerned right now with how the engine handles the weight and such, and what I should be shopping for weight wise down the line? I don't want something that is going to be super hard to tow i.e. I gotta drop into 4 lo on any hill, but I do expect that I should notice the motor being taxed a little at the same time. I do plan on putting an exhaust system on my truck in the coming weeks too, so hopefully I'll pick up 5-10 HP there (Mandrel bent 2 1/4" with Borla turbo - basically a fully borla catback). But I think that may be it as far as modifications go for me. Perhaps a TRD or Ceramic clutch down the line if I feel it is warranted. The trailer I buy will have good high quality brakes, and I'll get all the wiring and brake control done properly and professionally. I already have a class 3 hitch with a 4 pin connector but I anticipate getting it switched to 7 pin.

Aviator, on a related note, not sure if this falls into your jurisdiction, but there is a sale right now on Mobil1 at Canadian Tire. You get a 4.4 liter Jug plus a bonus 1 liter jug for $29.99 plus tax as opposed to $47 plus tax if you bought this at retail. So I bought enough oil (so of these bonus packs) to do my next 2 oil changes. I saved about $35!!! I run 10w30 though all year long. It starts fine in our mild cold weather spouts in the winter.

Anyways, back to towing!

CoedNaked

So no one with a 5 speed/3vze combo tows in here?

Tecxasdave

The first truck I bought brand new was a '94 yote 2 wheel drive. I had the rear springs sprung and clutch burning with 4k miles on it, but it held up to cutting and hauling cord wood that summer. I was pulling a small utility trailer but had it way overloaded for a yote. The one thing I would say it that with your 3.0 which is what I just got 3 weeks ago is go ahead and get the trailer brakes. These yotes aren't made for pulling, but they will and the advice above is something I would pay attention to, but the very worst senerio you could encounter is not being about to stop when you need to.

My humble opinion on the subject is to spend the first few dollars on the electric trailer brakes, just to keep your butt alive and out of harms way. Secondly, then the modification to your yote to keep yourself running without over heating and burning clutches, but depending on the size boat you have, you should be able to figure that out once you've towed your boat for awhile.

highway74

I have a 94 SR5 4x4 pickup with the 3.0 and 5 speed. I tow my 18 foot center console boat just fine loaded up with 55 gallons of fuel and gear on a single axle trailer. It comes out to approx 3200+ lbs total weight loaded. I don't have trailer brakes as most trailers of this size don't come equipped with them. As long as I use my head she pulls and stops just fine and I have traveled on plenty of long hills, usually in fourth. I put her into low range to pull her out of the water, never a problem. The truck is rated at 5000lbs which I think would be pushing it a bit, but you would definately have trailer brakes at that weight.

Snorkeldepth

I towed my buddy's 22 ft. sailboat with no problems. We were just towing it about 15 miles from his house to the ocean and back. I didn't have trailer brakes. I just took it easy and there weren't any hills. So, it wasn't much of a test. I also towed his 19 ft. Chris Craft inboard from his house to the river. But, that was only about 5 miles. Again, it was no problem. That's my only experience.

P.S. 4 wheel drive is golden on a launch ramp!

CoedNaked

Isn't the braking alittle scary without trailer brakes? How do you guys do it?

Also, what about mechanical trailer brakes IE when the tongue bends and pulls a cable or however that works? Or are electric trailer brakes much more superior?

Another question: What do you guys use as far as gear lube for towing if you tow somewhat or semi- regularly? I was thinking of just switching to synthetic gear lube for my diffs, transfer case, and transmission down the line but keeping the stock viscoscity i.e. 75w90? Do you think it would be worth it to mix a little 80w90 with some 75w90 to thicken up/help better protect the gear lube in the rear diff? Also would the fact it's synthetic despite being "stock" recommended viscoscity (75w90) help protect it a bit better than just stock non-synthetic fluids? Or do you think it's essential you go to like 80w90 or 75w140 or whatever?

Snorkeldepth

When I got serious about towing I invested in a 3/4 ton Dodge with a Cummins Turbo Diesel. When I planned to tow a boat across the country for a national championship I decided on electric brakes. They were highly recommended as the best. They are the only ones I've used.

The towing that I've done with my Toyota has been very minimal. I stayed off the freeway and drove very carefully. Yes, it's scary!! I don't know about the lubrication question.

highway74

A manual tranny,taking it easy and downshifting ahead of time takes a load off of the brakes. I've never had any problems braking with my described load. It works just fine for me and the power isn't all that bad. I'm not trying to set any records, lol.

birfieldbuster

I have 2.25 cat back and a k&n filter and I do plenty of towing.
mostly jeeps, often fords and cheys anywhere in the twenty feet to hundred yard distance.
~sorry I couldnt resist~
but I did tow an fj80 on the shop car trailer to the exhaust shop (about 8miles, minor grades). It did alright, but I would not do it again.

jmach1

I had a 1990 3vze truck manual with no engine mods but did have 4 in lift with 33" BFG's. Towed my neighbors small pop up camper fully loaded with all the camping gear 2 kids in the extended cab and my wife over the divide in Colorado to Glenwood springs. Not a fun ride. Having to go over to large passes was painful. In 2nd gear on the right side of the road, hazards on and going about 20mph with the temp gauge climbing steadily. It never did over heat because by the time it was getting close to the redline we started down the other side of the pass. Cooled down nicely until the next pass. Down hill was another story, no trailer brakes and again, we stayed in the right lane at about 45MPH down the windy pass, with the kids yelling "Are we almost home yet?" I was the one that was about to overheat on that trip!! On flat land the truck did okay, always in 3rd on small inclines or 4th on the flat straight aways unless you had a head wind and again you were in 3rd gear. So in a nut shell, these trucks were not made for towing. Loved the truck but that was the part I hated.
JMach1

celica

I have towed a trailer for well over 150,000 kms on my truck. It is the 5 spd 3.0. I have always had the intake mode & advanced timing. This helped greatly with low end power for towing. I have towed everything from small utility trailers to bobcats with my runner. I have towed in excess of 5000 lbs with it. You do feel the load but around town it isn't a big deal. On the highway (hilly) you would need to drop down into 3rd on the big hills (ie Banff) with a large load. I have never had trailer brakes but I would imagine they would help. As long as your rear brakes are adjusted proiperly you won't have any problems. I never felot unsafe with the loads, the brakes did fine. BC has some strict regulatons on GVW & trailer brakes - so as long as you stay legal you won't have any problems. I also towed a lot with my old 85 pickup. I used to own a landscape company and was able to paralell park a truck & trailer in downtown Calgary. The bigger issue was usually my saggy springs in the back. They were still factory & when I loaded up 20 sidewalk blocks in the back & another 40 in the trailer it was riding on/near the bumpstoips. no problems as long as you are comfortable towing. PM me if you want more details or have more questions

funjumper

I have a '94 4runner, 3.0 vze and stick shift. I bought a boat last summer. I haven't weighed the boat/trailer combo. I calculate that the boat/trailer all up with full fuel, full cooler, and the water toys weighs in at about 2600lbs. I'll be weighing it soon. The trailer has surge brakes. I think they make a big difference. The trailer also has a "swing" tounge. This allows me to get the boat into the garage and close the door.

My 4runner has about 211,000, and still the original clutch!! I am starting to get a bit of chatter when the cluctch is cold.

I have towed the boat to several local lakes and to a lake that is about 80 miles away. No problem pulling on flat ground. Climbing hills is a bit of a challenge. Downshifting as needed is required. Staying in the power band (above 3000 rpm) is not an option... if you bog down you lose speed FAST, and you can't get it back until you start going downhill again.

Until this spring, the ramp at the lake I usually go to (Nacimiento) was quite a ways to the water and somewhat steep. I always use 4wheel drive to pull the boat up the ramp. I used to pull straight up the ramp to the top, then switch to 2 wheel drive to make the turn into the tie down area. I put on Aisin manual hubs so that I can do "low 2" for pulling the boat up the ramp and over to the tie down area. We had so much rain this year that the lake is at 100% of capacity. The ramp is much shorter now, like 15' or so.

On the freeway I cruise at about 62mph in 4th gear at about 3100rpm (OEM type 31x10.5 tires) That is plenty fast enough. The 4runner is quite happy at that speed with the trailer. Any faster and it feels like it is working really hard.

I pulled the boat several times with the stock springs. I didn't like the way the back end sagged when the boat was hooked up. At 207,000 miles my 4runner had the usual case of "butt sag". It was much worse with the boat on. I put on a set of Downey HD Springs with 2" lift. They were a GREAT addition. No more sag. Without the boat the ride firmed up nicely without being harsh. With the boat there is almost no sag and the ride is great.

The other additions were a replacement steering stablizer and new shocks all around. These, along with the new springs, made a big improvement in ride and handling.

F0RSAKEN

I have a '94 T4R, 3VZ, 150k miles. Towed my RX-7 ~20 miles on a highway, car weighs 2800 pounds, dolly weighed 400-600 or so. The 4Runner would do 60-70mph in 4th gear ok. Lost speed in 5th on inclines. Runner is stock with a drilled airbox, and new allpro 1.5" rear springs.

TNRabbit

See my signature for details on my truck. It's a bone stock DLX except for Bosch Platinum plugs. I run 31x10,50 tires on stock steel rims I always use Castrol 20w-50 oil and change every 5-6,000 miles. I've LOADED over 2,300 lbs of wet sand in the back and transported it 10 miles @ 50 mph, but I wouldn't suggest you do that on a routine basis! I've towed a 1,700 lb trailer from TN to Maryland (@ 650 miles) on at least 7 occasions and it was a piece of cake (no trailer brakes). This package was steady to over 80 mph (again, I wouldn't suggest doing this!

great:

wavekayaker

I don't tow on a regular basis, but I have towed with my 95 runner, 5sp, 3VZE, w/ 32" BFG AT's on a stock engine and OME Heavy duty rear springs.

I used the truck to tow a 10 x 7, heavy duty trailer loaded when I moved. The one way trip was 210 miles w/ some decent grades, no mountains. I made this pull about 8 times. I could run 80 with no problem, the grades required 4th.

I towed an 87 4runner from Florida to South Carolina on a tow dolly. I had my wife in the truck and two kayaks on the roof. I ran 70 the whole way. It would go 70 with out much problem in 4th or 5th, but that was it. To stop I took my foot off the gas.

I have also towed a 23 foot sailboat about 15 miles on a single axle trailer. The boat weighs 3800 #'s the trailer another 1000+. The rear sat fine the truck pulled with no problem. This trailer does not have brakes, I wouldn't make a habit out of towing it unless it had brakes added.

With all the towing the temp. has never wavered, the truck is now at 192,000 miles and still on the origional clutch.

Anthony

snap-on

My PU falls under your catagory.

I have a rebuilt (jasper) 3vze that is .030 over. with NWOR headers, 2.5" exahust, K&N intake.
the mods have added what i would call "significant" seat of pants power. (never dyno'd)

I have owned the truck for 7 years now. in that time (some of what) i have towed
- full 1.5 yard concreet trailer from a we mix u haul place. this was my first "big" load and took everything the truck had to get it stopped from 45mph going down hill comming up to a red light. (i would have run the light but there was a cop watching the light)
- u-haul 2 wheel dolly with a BMW 325is in reverse. (hardly new it was there)
-same as above with 94 yota camery from Omaha NE to Quad cities IL. accross IA hills. you need time to stop but very doable, 75-5th on flat 4th gear on slight hills ~55 mph.
-same as above with 97 honda civic PACKED with moving stuff and a full bed. From Duram NC to Charlotetsville VA. through small 2 lane. easy pull but hard stops. I could smell breaks by half way through trip.
-same as above with 89 honda prelued PACKED with moving stuff. full bed with washer dryer etc. (i have a pic of this one) BIG load. ~65 on interstate lots of time to stop (But doable)
-flat tow a 88 XJ (heep) on w/9" lift on 35's from Tulsa Ok to STL MO. up I-44 with MO hills. Tow at 75- 4th on hills @55 breaking difficult but controlable. cant run A/C on hard pulls up hills as it starts to get HOT (not overheated yet)
-tow my 98 starcraft popup(spacemaster). with camping gear. No harder than the XJ same issues
-5x10 ulitiy trailer with 2500lbs of rock. notice its there but nothing to write home about.

and lastly a 2 axle car trailer with TJ on 35s in an "emergency" get it out situation. I was able to get the trailer down to the jeep over unimproved roads and towed it back out in 4low. We had ~2 miles of blacktop 2nd gear tops 1st gear on hills and pushed me all over the place (no trailer brakes)
I wont do it again and has confermed that the mini-trucks arnt built for that kind of towing. I would not even do it with a load leveling hitch and trailer brakes.

aviator

hey coed ok the difference betwen electric brakes and mechanical brakes... Electric brakes use a switch in the cab to activate the brakes on the trailer as you know this means no power no brakes if something happens to the electrical connection u r screwed however some incorporate a slide switch meaning you can vary how much brake force is applied to some extent. Mecanical or 'Surge Brakes' have the hitch connected to a kind of sliding tongue device when the trailer is being towed the hitch is fully extended and the brakes are free, as you slow down the trailer will "slide" forward a little way causing the trailer brakes to engage. On a stop as you pull away the hitch slides forward and the brakes disengage. When you want to back the trailer up you have to get out and manually engage a "lock out" device that prevents the slider from moving or other wise disconnects the brakes.
This system does have one down side... in heavy stop and go traffic {or any driving come to think of it} you need to drive smoothly, hard acceleration followed by sudden braking will have the trailer banging back and forth behind you and trust me you will feel it. also on long down grades you might find the trailer brakes heating up a bit they are built to handle it but you might have to wait a while to cool them off before you launch if you had to cruise down a long hill to get to the launch area.
The up side is there is nothing to short out when launching you boat.
looks like there were a lot of responces here dude hope this helped a little cheers aviator
ps thanks for the heads up on the oil.