31" - 32" - or 33" with 4.88 gears. What you think?
04-29-2007, 06:51 AM
#21
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Fred
04-29-2007, 07:04 AM
#22
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Last edited by mt_goat; 04-29-2007 at 07:10 AM.
04-29-2007, 08:28 AM
#23
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The reason is because you will lose power with the larger tires as well as gas mileage, and 33" tires will only give you a whole 1" more of ground clearance, the 32's will give you a whole 1/2" of ground clearance. Not worth it for the loss of power, loss of mileage, and the loss of a bit of braking, plus rubbing issues, plus more stress on your suspension and drive train, plus you gotta now spend $$$ to avoid the rubbing issues and/or to work with the larger tires. Those meagre amounts of lift gained from the larger tires can be made up by a good driver, and do you really think there is going to be a situation offroad or whereever where you'll get by being 1" higher off the ground? I sincerely doubt it.
Some 33X12.50s are just that. Most however are between 31-32" tall. You won't be able to fit a true 33" tire with no lift if your planning on turning or 4wheelin. I have 2" of lift with OME rear coils and new torsion bars and 1.5" control arm spacers and I wouldn't even put true 33's on my ride. Plus if you jump to 33's you'll notice a power drop if you don't change gears.
Because Molly always had her A/T TEMP light coming on with 5.71's and 35's because the torque converter wouldn't lock up because the engine can't pull the overdrive. (Admittedly, a tranny cooler has fixed that problem)
04-29-2007, 09:23 AM
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Well I ran the 4.88s with 31s for about the first 45,000 miles on my truck (it came stock that way) and even brand new (in 1993), near sea level, in the the flat lands here, it couldn't hold OD on a slight incline at 70mph. I think it's ridiculous that Toyota geared the 4-speed, 3.slo to go 130 mph when it doesn't have the power to hold 70mph into a headwind or up a very slight incline without down shifting to 3rd gear.
04-29-2007, 09:27 AM
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The only way to get clearance under the diff is taller tires. There are TONS of situations where 1" is way more than the difference of having a good day and fighting with the trail. Width causes FAR more rubbing issues than height. A 32x11.50 is much more likely to rub than a 33x10.50 and as you mentioned, you don't get any ground clearance out of it.
I ran TRUE 34's (measured the same height as Molly's 35's) with no lift and minimal rubbing. But they were only 9.5" wide. I think the rubbing would have been cut dramatically if the wheels I used had stock backspacing.
Because Molly always had her A/T TEMP light coming on with 5.71's and 35's because the torque converter wouldn't lock up because the engine can't pull the overdrive. (Admittedly, a tranny cooler has fixed that problem)
I ran TRUE 34's (measured the same height as Molly's 35's) with no lift and minimal rubbing. But they were only 9.5" wide. I think the rubbing would have been cut dramatically if the wheels I used had stock backspacing.
Because Molly always had her A/T TEMP light coming on with 5.71's and 35's because the torque converter wouldn't lock up because the engine can't pull the overdrive. (Admittedly, a tranny cooler has fixed that problem)
04-29-2007, 09:35 AM
#26
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04-29-2007, 09:44 AM
#27
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There is no way in hell that 1" of ground clerance gained from going to 33" tires over 31" tires is going to take you more places than a 31" tire, especially if you're just talking about doing the bare minimum to clear the tires rubbing wise (which could be nothing - maybe just a mild torsion bar crank with 33x10.5's). 33 x 10.5's "look" better but that's about all they do. Unless you're prepared to do a 4" or more suspension lift and other mods to properly work with the tires from an offroad standpoint so you gain what I would coin "proper" clearance, I think you should just stick with 31's. There are way too many consequences the way I see it, to going to bigger tires if you're just going to half ass it. Half ass being just putting on bigger tires and doing the bare minimum to clear them.
I know my build has taken me through Hell's Revenge, Moab Rim, and other TOUGH trails with little/no breakage. Check my link below for pix.
04-29-2007, 09:56 AM
#29
Contributing Member
Maybe, but the risk of damage would be a lot higher. We did Boulder Carnage with Wildturkee who had stock 31's and he was getting hung up on everything and had to beat the truck through.
I DO agree with you in general, just think the cutoff is 35's, not 33's.
I DO agree with you in general, just think the cutoff is 35's, not 33's.
04-29-2007, 10:01 AM
#30
Registered User
The only way to get clearance under the diff is taller tires. There are TONS of situations where 1" is way more than the difference of having a good day and fighting with the trail. Width causes FAR more rubbing issues than height. A 32x11.50 is much more likely to rub than a 33x10.50 and as you mentioned, you don't get any ground clearance out of it.
<SNIP>
<SNIP>
FINALLY after I don't know how long that I've been on this forum (since last year), someone shows up that has a clue
This is 100% TRUE.
Many, many people here have no idea (so it seems) about why, when, how, etc., to lift their vehicle. Now I'm not talking about those that are doing it for looks so that they can cruise around the mall and think that they "look" big and bad, I'm talking about those that make mods because that really wheel their vehicle(s).
If you play in the big stuff (as we do) or actually anywhere that needs clearance (which is the only reason to go with larger tires, lifts, etc.) then you need to do mods for clearance. If you look under the vehicle the lowest parts are the front and rear diffs, axles.
The only way to gain clearance for those is with larger tires. You can add 4" ~ 6" of lift, but if you don't go to larger tires your diffs and axles and still knuckle dragging
Lifts are mostly for tire clearance and a small part for a little more flex (though flex is way too over rated by most).
Going up a couple of tire sizes, adding a 2" body lift, pushing the gas tank up 2" (because of the 2" bl provides room) and pushing the xfer case/tranny up 2" (if you have an auto tranny, pushing it flush to the bottom of the frame rails if you have a manual tranny) will provide a much more capabile vehicle than going up a couple of tire sizes and throwing a suspension lift on it.
The first case provides a vehicle with a lower COG and one that will handle and perform much better in areas where clearance is needed (where I and friends wheel).
I'm even thinging strongly of 35's with front fenders, cutting out the rears (doing the bl and things already suggested above) and maybe a 1.5" ~ 2" suspension lift (bj spacers front, springs rear, 4 shocks) along with everything else required (from a strengh standpoint) to run 35's.
That would be an awesome performing vehicle off road.
Too many people just don't seem to understand about lifting, etc. as evidenced by:
There is no way in hell that 1" of ground clerance gained from going to 33" tires over 31" tires is going to take you more places than a 31" tire, especially if you're just talking about doing the bare minimum to clear the tires rubbing wise (which could be nothing - maybe just a mild torsion bar crank with 33x10.5's). 33 x 10.5's "look" better but that's about all they do. Unless you're prepared to do a 4" or more suspension lift and other mods to properly work with the tires from an offroad standpoint so you gain what I would coin "proper" clearance, I think you should just stick with 31's. There are way too many consequences the way I see it, to going to bigger tires if you're just going to half ass it. Half ass being just putting on bigger tires and doing the bare minimum to clear them.
Even 1/2" can make or break a day.
On my Jeep, after the bl install and the "belly up" (which is the skid that pushes up the xfer case and tranny, just some here call it a "drivetrain lift") I still had 1/2" ~ 3/4" "lip" at the frame, that is the belly up skid was a little lower than the bottom of the frame rails. That was MORE than enough to case a bucket load of problems on some of the trails that we run/ran.
After some work that involved clearancing the tunnel, I was able to get the skid flush with the bottom of the frame rails.
That single mod was one of the best that I had done on the Jeep, as far as "trail worthyness" was concerned.
Made the difference between night and day.
Hell, some of my friends the run JV on a regular basis have "fun" watching some of the people with their Jeeps (my friends run Jeeps also) with a certain brand of suspension lift, get constantly hung up on the jam nuts on their control arms.
Fred
04-29-2007, 10:08 AM
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FINALLY after I don't know how long that I've been on this forum (since last year), someone shows up that has a clue
This is 100% TRUE.
Many, many people here have no idea (so it seems) about why, when, how, etc., to lift their vehicle. Now I'm not talking about those that are doing it for looks so that they can cruise around the mall and think that they "look" big and bad, I'm talking about those that make mods because that really wheel their vehicle(s).
If you play in the big stuff (as we do) or actually anywhere that needs clearance (which is the only reason to go with larger tires, lifts, etc.) then you need to do mods for clearance. If you look under the vehicle the lowest parts are the front and rear diffs, axles.
The only way to gain clearance for those is with larger tires. You can add 4" ~ 6" of lift, but if you don't go to larger tires your diffs and axles and still knuckle dragging
Lifts are mostly for tire clearance and a small part for a little more flex (though flex is way too over rated by most).
Going up a couple of tire sizes, adding a 2" body lift, pushing the gas tank up 2" (because of the 2" bl provides room) and pushing the xfer case/tranny up 2" (if you have an auto tranny, pushing it flush to the bottom of the frame rails if you have a manual tranny) will provide a much more capabile vehicle than going up a couple of tire sizes and throwing a suspension lift on it.
The first case provides a vehicle with a lower COG and one that will handle and perform much better in areas where clearance is needed (where I and friends wheel).
I'm even thinging strongly of 35's with front fenders, cutting out the rears (doing the bl and things already suggested above) and maybe a 1.5" ~ 2" suspension lift (bj spacers front, springs rear, 4 shocks) along with everything else required (from a strengh standpoint) to run 35's.
That would be an awesome performing vehicle off road.
Too many people just don't seem to understand about lifting, etc. as evidenced by:
Spoken by someone who doesn't play where clearance is a premimum.
Even 1/2" can make or break a day.
On my Jeep, after the bl install and the "belly up" (which is the skid that pushes up the xfer case and tranny, just some here call it a "drivetrain lift") I still had 1/2" ~ 3/4" "lip" at the frame, that is the belly up skid was a little lower than the bottom of the frame rails. That was MORE than enough to case a bucket load of problems on some of the trails that we run/ran.
After some work that involved clearancing the tunnel, I was able to get the skid flush with the bottom of the frame rails.
That single mod was one of the best that I had done on the Jeep, as far as "trail worthyness" was concerned.
Made the difference between night and day.
Hell, some of my friends the run JV on a regular basis have "fun" watching some of the people with their Jeeps (my friends run Jeeps also) with a certain brand of suspension lift, get constantly hung up on the jam nuts on their control arms.
Fred
This is 100% TRUE.
Many, many people here have no idea (so it seems) about why, when, how, etc., to lift their vehicle. Now I'm not talking about those that are doing it for looks so that they can cruise around the mall and think that they "look" big and bad, I'm talking about those that make mods because that really wheel their vehicle(s).
If you play in the big stuff (as we do) or actually anywhere that needs clearance (which is the only reason to go with larger tires, lifts, etc.) then you need to do mods for clearance. If you look under the vehicle the lowest parts are the front and rear diffs, axles.
The only way to gain clearance for those is with larger tires. You can add 4" ~ 6" of lift, but if you don't go to larger tires your diffs and axles and still knuckle dragging
Lifts are mostly for tire clearance and a small part for a little more flex (though flex is way too over rated by most).
Going up a couple of tire sizes, adding a 2" body lift, pushing the gas tank up 2" (because of the 2" bl provides room) and pushing the xfer case/tranny up 2" (if you have an auto tranny, pushing it flush to the bottom of the frame rails if you have a manual tranny) will provide a much more capabile vehicle than going up a couple of tire sizes and throwing a suspension lift on it.
The first case provides a vehicle with a lower COG and one that will handle and perform much better in areas where clearance is needed (where I and friends wheel).
I'm even thinging strongly of 35's with front fenders, cutting out the rears (doing the bl and things already suggested above) and maybe a 1.5" ~ 2" suspension lift (bj spacers front, springs rear, 4 shocks) along with everything else required (from a strengh standpoint) to run 35's.
That would be an awesome performing vehicle off road.
Too many people just don't seem to understand about lifting, etc. as evidenced by:
Spoken by someone who doesn't play where clearance is a premimum.
Even 1/2" can make or break a day.
On my Jeep, after the bl install and the "belly up" (which is the skid that pushes up the xfer case and tranny, just some here call it a "drivetrain lift") I still had 1/2" ~ 3/4" "lip" at the frame, that is the belly up skid was a little lower than the bottom of the frame rails. That was MORE than enough to case a bucket load of problems on some of the trails that we run/ran.
After some work that involved clearancing the tunnel, I was able to get the skid flush with the bottom of the frame rails.
That single mod was one of the best that I had done on the Jeep, as far as "trail worthyness" was concerned.
Made the difference between night and day.
Hell, some of my friends the run JV on a regular basis have "fun" watching some of the people with their Jeeps (my friends run Jeeps also) with a certain brand of suspension lift, get constantly hung up on the jam nuts on their control arms.
Fred
Sounds like a huge placebo to me.
04-29-2007, 10:20 AM
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If I gave you a truck with 33" tires and one with 31" tires and I told you to wheel them down a trail, and I didn't tell you which had which tires, and I did the bare minimum next to nothing to clear the 33" tires, I guarantee that from the drivers seat, you couldn't tell the difference in offroad performance, but you might from the loss of power, braking, & gearing.
04-29-2007, 11:07 AM
#34
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04-30-2007, 02:48 AM
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FINALLY after I don't know how long that I've been on this forum (since last year), someone shows up that has a clue
This is 100% TRUE.
Many, many people here have no idea (so it seems) about why, when, how, etc., to lift their vehicle. Now I'm not talking about those that are doing it for looks so that they can cruise around the mall and think that they "look" big and bad, I'm talking about those that make mods because that really wheel their vehicle(s).
If you play in the big stuff (as we do) or actually anywhere that needs clearance (which is the only reason to go with larger tires, lifts, etc.) then you need to do mods for clearance. If you look under the vehicle the lowest parts are the front and rear diffs, axles.
The only way to gain clearance for those is with larger tires. You can add 4" ~ 6" of lift, but if you don't go to larger tires your diffs and axles and still knuckle dragging
Lifts are mostly for tire clearance and a small part for a little more flex (though flex is way too over rated by most).
Going up a couple of tire sizes, adding a 2" body lift, pushing the gas tank up 2" (because of the 2" bl provides room) and pushing the xfer case/tranny up 2" (if you have an auto tranny, pushing it flush to the bottom of the frame rails if you have a manual tranny) will provide a much more capabile vehicle than going up a couple of tire sizes and throwing a suspension lift on it.
The first case provides a vehicle with a lower COG and one that will handle and perform much better in areas where clearance is needed (where I and friends wheel).
I'm even thinging strongly of 35's with front fenders, cutting out the rears (doing the bl and things already suggested above) and maybe a 1.5" ~ 2" suspension lift (bj spacers front, springs rear, 4 shocks) along with everything else required (from a strengh standpoint) to run 35's.
That would be an awesome performing vehicle off road.
Too many people just don't seem to understand about lifting, etc. as evidenced by:
Spoken by someone who doesn't play where clearance is a premimum.
Even 1/2" can make or break a day.
On my Jeep, after the bl install and the "belly up" (which is the skid that pushes up the xfer case and tranny, just some here call it a "drivetrain lift") I still had 1/2" ~ 3/4" "lip" at the frame, that is the belly up skid was a little lower than the bottom of the frame rails. That was MORE than enough to case a bucket load of problems on some of the trails that we run/ran.
After some work that involved clearancing the tunnel, I was able to get the skid flush with the bottom of the frame rails.
That single mod was one of the best that I had done on the Jeep, as far as "trail worthyness" was concerned.
Made the difference between night and day.
Hell, some of my friends the run JV on a regular basis have "fun" watching some of the people with their Jeeps (my friends run Jeeps also) with a certain brand of suspension lift, get constantly hung up on the jam nuts on their control arms.
Fred
This is 100% TRUE.
Many, many people here have no idea (so it seems) about why, when, how, etc., to lift their vehicle. Now I'm not talking about those that are doing it for looks so that they can cruise around the mall and think that they "look" big and bad, I'm talking about those that make mods because that really wheel their vehicle(s).
If you play in the big stuff (as we do) or actually anywhere that needs clearance (which is the only reason to go with larger tires, lifts, etc.) then you need to do mods for clearance. If you look under the vehicle the lowest parts are the front and rear diffs, axles.
The only way to gain clearance for those is with larger tires. You can add 4" ~ 6" of lift, but if you don't go to larger tires your diffs and axles and still knuckle dragging
Lifts are mostly for tire clearance and a small part for a little more flex (though flex is way too over rated by most).
Going up a couple of tire sizes, adding a 2" body lift, pushing the gas tank up 2" (because of the 2" bl provides room) and pushing the xfer case/tranny up 2" (if you have an auto tranny, pushing it flush to the bottom of the frame rails if you have a manual tranny) will provide a much more capabile vehicle than going up a couple of tire sizes and throwing a suspension lift on it.
The first case provides a vehicle with a lower COG and one that will handle and perform much better in areas where clearance is needed (where I and friends wheel).
I'm even thinging strongly of 35's with front fenders, cutting out the rears (doing the bl and things already suggested above) and maybe a 1.5" ~ 2" suspension lift (bj spacers front, springs rear, 4 shocks) along with everything else required (from a strengh standpoint) to run 35's.
That would be an awesome performing vehicle off road.
Too many people just don't seem to understand about lifting, etc. as evidenced by:
Spoken by someone who doesn't play where clearance is a premimum.
Even 1/2" can make or break a day.
On my Jeep, after the bl install and the "belly up" (which is the skid that pushes up the xfer case and tranny, just some here call it a "drivetrain lift") I still had 1/2" ~ 3/4" "lip" at the frame, that is the belly up skid was a little lower than the bottom of the frame rails. That was MORE than enough to case a bucket load of problems on some of the trails that we run/ran.
After some work that involved clearancing the tunnel, I was able to get the skid flush with the bottom of the frame rails.
That single mod was one of the best that I had done on the Jeep, as far as "trail worthyness" was concerned.
Made the difference between night and day.
Hell, some of my friends the run JV on a regular basis have "fun" watching some of the people with their Jeeps (my friends run Jeeps also) with a certain brand of suspension lift, get constantly hung up on the jam nuts on their control arms.
Fred
Fred what brand of lift on the Creeps? I have a 2" suspension on it now and looking to get 4" more, so I can run 35" tires. Oh yeah it's a 99 Wrangler on 32X11.50's and yes the extra inch or so of lift from the tires does make a difference. In my most humblest of experiences.
04-30-2007, 07:36 PM
#39
Registered User
Fred what brand of lift on the Creeps? I have a 2" suspension on it now and looking to get 4" more, so I can run 35" tires. Oh yeah it's a 99 Wrangler on 32X11.50's and yes the extra inch or so of lift from the tires does make a difference. In my most humblest of experiences.
That'll give you a ton of flex (useful flex) and still a relatively low COG.
You'll need more that just springs/shocks for 4" of suspension lift, that is to do it correctly.
Just a short list to start.
- Upper and lower control arms, front and rear (Currie makes about the best).
- Adjustable trackbar, front and rear (Currie or JKS, they're the same)
- Rear trackbar relocation bracket.
- Extended brake lines, front
- Upgraded brakes.
- Regear (4.88's if you have a manual tranny, 4.56's if an auto)
- 4:1 xfer case (Tera) if you have a manual tranny, not needed if you have an auto.
I originally was running the Currie springs, which netted me 5" of suspension lift and I had a 2" bl.
That combo allowed too much unloading in the front on steep climbs and too high of a COG as evidenced in off camber areas.
I changed the body lift to a 1 1/4" lift (JKS) and swapped the Currie springs for the Procomp springs, which netted me exactly 4" of suspension lift.
The difference in off road performance was huge.
We run/ran the big stuff where every bit of clearance is a huge premimum and every micron of lowed COG pays for itself.
Fred
04-30-2007, 11:13 PM
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my truck has 33x12.5 with a 22rtec set at 12 psi with intake and exhaust. i still have problems in 5th gear on an incline. i honestly think with stock gearing on toyota trucks 5th gear is just a number on the shifter and nothing else lol. i'm gonna swap out the 4.10's with 4.88's and see how i like it (my friend has them so i can try it). if im still not satisfied i'm gonna go with a set of 5.29's. when i had 31x10.5's before and the 4.10's are fine imo. gas mileage has always sucked in my truck (9-12mpg) so i never did expect more. we'll see after the gears.
Last edited by turbo86yota; 04-30-2007 at 11:16 PM.
