22R won't start
01-07-2010, 08:34 AM
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22R won't start
My brother and I recently dropped a freshly rebuilt 22R into his '81 Celica. I know it isn't a truck but the folks here are usually the best place to turn to. It turns over fine and will even fire off a couple of times with a shot of starting fluid, which leads me to believe that it isn't getting fuel. I thought maybe the fuel pump? It ran before he had it rebuilt. I can't even think of another reason. Is the timing maybe so jacked up that it won't fire off? Bad coil? Any ideas?
01-07-2010, 06:35 PM
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Well it should run pretty smoothly on starting fluid if the timing is good. But let's back up for just a sec... Comprehensively this is roughly what you should do and the order to do it in.
I can't visualize if the Celica carburetor was substantially different from the pickup. However it should have a float level window - you probably have to take the air cleaner off to be able to see it.
While the engine is cranking or running, look for fuel in the float window. If you see no gasoline in that window then:
Make sure that the fuel filter is installed with the correct flow direcation - installing a new fuel filter never killed anybody, and it is easy on your wallet too.
Make sure that the fuel lines are free of obstruction - it never hurt to blow them out to make sure they do not have any clogs going on (take the gas cap off before blowing up your gas tank).
The fuel filter should be made of a translucent plastic so make sure there is some fuel lying in the filter. If not (and you are sure the line from the tank is clear) then inspect all fuel hose between the tank and the fuel filter for cracks or leaks. Then proceed
You can remove the fuel input line to the carburetor and then have a friend crank the engine. Gasoline should spurt out. If it does not (and the fuel lines and filter are clear and correctly installed) then you have a fuel pump issue. If it does then be aware that there should be abotu 5 PSI and a pretty substantial volume of fuel should be coming from the pump.
Now an automobile, unlike a small engine, requires a substantial spray of starting fluid to keep it running. A good 3 second shot should let the motor run for about 6 to 10 full seconds. During this time it may miss a little but you should be using your ears to their fullest. The motor should run fast but fairly smooth for the first 4 or 5 seconds on starting fluid. If it just barely runs and backfires than something else is most likely wrong with the ignition system.
Is it using the factory distributor? Did you rebuild the distrubutor? You will need to make sure that everything is installed correctly. Start as follows:
Remove the number 1 spark plug. Ground it to the valvecover and connect the ignition wire to it. Have a friend crank it. You should see a hot blue colored spark. If you see a hot spark than your problem is either back at the fuel section or you have a timing issue.
If you see a yellow or red spark then start by make sure the spark plug is clean. Is it really oily or gassy? Give it a sniff and inspect it closely. If you haven't put new plugs in it, do so. I would assume that you are using new spark plugs though. Make sure the gap is correct.
Next step is to verify the spark off the coil. Simply disconnect the coil wire at the distrubutor cap and plug the spark plug into it. Ground the plug to the vehicle and crank it. Again you should get a blue hot spark. If not, find the test procedure for the ignition coil. If the coil tests fine and you have a weak spark, you should check the coil and ignition wires.
Next make sure you have the correct ignition wires. A shop manual will tell you the correct ohms resistence for a carbon filament ignition wire. On the 20k ohm reading, your DVOM should read somewhere between 6 and 11.
If you still have a weak spark with good wires (and you're sure the wires are tightly installed) then move on to the specific test procedures for the ignition module, alternator, and wiring. This can get into specific systems that I don't feel comfortable advising you about not knowing exactly how your 22R was set up. An ignition module failure is at least fairly rare on these trucks so make sure all your wiring is in good shape before blaming the little black box.
If you have good hot spark and a certain supply of fuel, you need to make sure the spark occurs at the right time. I would say to check and make sure that the distributor is degreed correctly. Usually with the #1 piston at top dead center you can set the distributor base timing. There are marks to help you with this. Your shop manual will have the exact procedure. Before you go trying to jump a tooth on your distributor gear, the redneck solution woudl be to guess the timing to either extreme on its adjustment track. If it runs good all the way to one extreme or another your distributor could be off a tooth. Use a timing light to double check obviously...
If you are still havign problems, have a hot spark that occurs at the correct time, then you should make sure that your timing chain was installed correctly. A compression test, a major valve problem..... Let's not speculate on goign that far. You probably have a simple fix like a fuel line or a little bump in timing.
That's a pretty full response but that is pretty comprehensive. Not being able to hear/see your engine leads me to write a whole long comprehensive guide. You can probably peck at that list using your best judgement. Best of luck!
I can't visualize if the Celica carburetor was substantially different from the pickup. However it should have a float level window - you probably have to take the air cleaner off to be able to see it.
While the engine is cranking or running, look for fuel in the float window. If you see no gasoline in that window then:
Make sure that the fuel filter is installed with the correct flow direcation - installing a new fuel filter never killed anybody, and it is easy on your wallet too.
Make sure that the fuel lines are free of obstruction - it never hurt to blow them out to make sure they do not have any clogs going on (take the gas cap off before blowing up your gas tank).
The fuel filter should be made of a translucent plastic so make sure there is some fuel lying in the filter. If not (and you are sure the line from the tank is clear) then inspect all fuel hose between the tank and the fuel filter for cracks or leaks. Then proceed
You can remove the fuel input line to the carburetor and then have a friend crank the engine. Gasoline should spurt out. If it does not (and the fuel lines and filter are clear and correctly installed) then you have a fuel pump issue. If it does then be aware that there should be abotu 5 PSI and a pretty substantial volume of fuel should be coming from the pump.
Now an automobile, unlike a small engine, requires a substantial spray of starting fluid to keep it running. A good 3 second shot should let the motor run for about 6 to 10 full seconds. During this time it may miss a little but you should be using your ears to their fullest. The motor should run fast but fairly smooth for the first 4 or 5 seconds on starting fluid. If it just barely runs and backfires than something else is most likely wrong with the ignition system.
Is it using the factory distributor? Did you rebuild the distrubutor? You will need to make sure that everything is installed correctly. Start as follows:
Remove the number 1 spark plug. Ground it to the valvecover and connect the ignition wire to it. Have a friend crank it. You should see a hot blue colored spark. If you see a hot spark than your problem is either back at the fuel section or you have a timing issue.
If you see a yellow or red spark then start by make sure the spark plug is clean. Is it really oily or gassy? Give it a sniff and inspect it closely. If you haven't put new plugs in it, do so. I would assume that you are using new spark plugs though. Make sure the gap is correct.
Next step is to verify the spark off the coil. Simply disconnect the coil wire at the distrubutor cap and plug the spark plug into it. Ground the plug to the vehicle and crank it. Again you should get a blue hot spark. If not, find the test procedure for the ignition coil. If the coil tests fine and you have a weak spark, you should check the coil and ignition wires.
Next make sure you have the correct ignition wires. A shop manual will tell you the correct ohms resistence for a carbon filament ignition wire. On the 20k ohm reading, your DVOM should read somewhere between 6 and 11.
If you still have a weak spark with good wires (and you're sure the wires are tightly installed) then move on to the specific test procedures for the ignition module, alternator, and wiring. This can get into specific systems that I don't feel comfortable advising you about not knowing exactly how your 22R was set up. An ignition module failure is at least fairly rare on these trucks so make sure all your wiring is in good shape before blaming the little black box.
If you have good hot spark and a certain supply of fuel, you need to make sure the spark occurs at the right time. I would say to check and make sure that the distributor is degreed correctly. Usually with the #1 piston at top dead center you can set the distributor base timing. There are marks to help you with this. Your shop manual will have the exact procedure. Before you go trying to jump a tooth on your distributor gear, the redneck solution woudl be to guess the timing to either extreme on its adjustment track. If it runs good all the way to one extreme or another your distributor could be off a tooth. Use a timing light to double check obviously...
If you are still havign problems, have a hot spark that occurs at the correct time, then you should make sure that your timing chain was installed correctly. A compression test, a major valve problem..... Let's not speculate on goign that far. You probably have a simple fix like a fuel line or a little bump in timing.
That's a pretty full response but that is pretty comprehensive. Not being able to hear/see your engine leads me to write a whole long comprehensive guide. You can probably peck at that list using your best judgement. Best of luck!
01-07-2010, 09:24 PM
#4
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Awesome. It must be the timing. Fuel is fine, spark looks great, coil is fine as per specs listed in manual. I cant mess with it anymore tonight, have to be at work at midinight. Less than an hour from now. Thank you, th!ough
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