benman

The first weekend in June westy44runner and I headed out to the Bradshaws to find out if we could reach crown king on an alternate back road. It was the first real wheeling trip in my newly acquired 85 4Runner and we were both interested in seeing how it would keep up with the Armadillo. We hit the trail around 9am and little did we know that we wouldn't be done for 38 hours!

Starting from Table Mesa road and I-17 we headed NW crossing over the Agua Fria towards Tip Top mine. You basically pass right by the old (nearly disappeared) town of Gillette and follow the old wagon trails to the once bustling town and Tip Top mine site. There are foundations of buildings and open mineshafts all through this area. I believe there are some gravesites as well but we didn't want to waste time looking. The trail would be a moderate challenge in a stock 4x4 but very do-able. We ran into two other wheelers one in a yota and the other was this Kia with no front bumper that I've seen around the web.



Its an awesome view of the Black Canyon from here.









After Tip Top the trail continues for about 3 miles with a few side spurs to mines. At the tin shed the trail splits and I believe if you go right you can either loop back around to the Agua Fria or continue up to Horse Thief Basin Road. We were told by the guy in the yota the if you go left there are some good challenges and it will meet up with the Crown King road by Cow Creek. I don't know if this is true because we only made it about 3 miles farther when the Armadillo was looking real cross-eyed. The drivers side tire looked like it was about to fall off making steering near impossible. Not really knowing what was wrong we assumed that the birfield had blown. We left the Armadillo and headed back to Phoenix for parts and tools.

benman

As things go, the previous week I had purchased a transfer case from a guy in phoenix who had a few spare axles he wanted to sell. I passed them up at the time but now we knew that it was probably going to be our only chance in getting the Armadillo home. We made a beeline for his house and loaded up a complete front axle from an 83 pickup into my 4runner. A stop at my house to get the necessary tools and camping gear followed by a grocery store run and we headed back out to the stranded truck. It was 3am by the time we reached it so we set up a quick camping arrangement in the trucks and went to sleep.

By 9 am we were well rested and starting on the teardown of westys truck. It wasn't long before we realized what had happened... When the hi steer arms were bolted to the knuckles, the studs were not properly tightened and loc-tited. Over time they began to loosen and had reached their breaking point on this trip. Two had completely broken off and the other two were very loose and bent. This allowed the hi steer arm to come loose releasing pressure on the steering bearings. Without proper support the bearings were mashed to pieces which made the knuckle basically ready to fall off. We continued the teardown to find that the hardened steel needle bearings had dropped into the knuckle and ground up the axle housing and birfield pretty bad.











Eight hours later we had tightened up the last lug nut and began cleaning up the tools. The repair turned out to be lengthy but we had everything we needed in the spare axle to get the Armadillo rolling again. What the pictures do not show are the millions of tiny black gnats that come out with the saguaro blooms. These things were everywhere- mouth, eyes, nose, ears, and almost drove us to insanity. Factor in the Arizona sun that heats hand tools to scalding temperatures in minutes and you have a pretty mentally straining day.

To make things even worse, we had decided to press on towards cow creek instead of trekking back two hours from where we came. We eventually made it to a site that I've seen called "beyond tip top" but it was getting dark and more trouble was plaguing us. We had to replace and snug up the passenger side knuckle studs because they were loosening and one had broken. Right after this the truck developed a massive vacuum leak and would not stay running. We patched that up with a stick and decided enough is enough so we just headed back. At 11pm we reached the highway after a very, very long weekend.

I wish I had still been in the mood to take pictures at sunset. I saw a large gila monster and the view from the top of the mountains was amazing. That is why I must return someday. Someday.

midiwall

_wow_

okay, that beats my stripped ring gear last Saturday. It was only 3 hours for two guys to pull it apart and get me running in front wheel drive.


wow....

crawler#976

Ain't trail breakage just a kick???

The steering arm studs are one of two items I tighten after every trail run. The second is steering box bolts. Both seem to get loose pretty regularly. The steering arm studs are available from Toyota:

Knuckle Stud, Hex - 90126-12005 $1.57 EA (12MM stock SA steering arm stud, these have a torx head, and are CAD plated)

Nut for above - 90170-12005 $0.71 EA

prices are from a couple years ago...

I carry 4 spares in the tool box.

dlbrunner

Was the other toyota a maroon one, 87 or so? I was supposed to head out with a dude this weekend and he was talking about a guy with a kia....

benman

We will definately check both of our trucks before every run now. Gonna probably get some spare studs too. I see marlin sells them and the price hasn't gone up any.

The toyota was a white ifs pickup that was pretty capable. I was amazed how that Kia even kept up. But then again I've seen pictures of that same truck in some pretty hairy spots. I'd love to see the undercarriage of that truck.

I'm wondering if anyone knows if there is passage from the Tip Top area up to Horse Thief. I'm also curious if anyone has been to this "beyond tip top" mine site (the next ridge west is Columbia mine) and knows how to get over to cow creek.

westy44runner

the Kia...hahahaha. Did you really have to post a picture of it?

Once it cools off this fall we will make another trek back to that area and figure out where each of those roads leads too.

I was looking at those aerial photo's that Ryan downloaded and coupled with your GPS topo maps we will be able to figure out which road goes where...its pretty cool. Maybe sometime this week you will have to come down to check it out.

B

valkyrie610

Cheapset dang insurance in the world.

AgRunner06

Wow that really sucks that you had such bad luck on your run. I do like the pics though. I wish I had public land around here to wheel on.

I know the SFA is better, but would you say that IFS is more reliable? From what the other guys said, the causes of your problem seems to be pretty common.

Glad you got it all back together and fixed.

:bounce2:

benman

I'd say that the parts in both are pretty strong. My old IFS truck impressed me with its strength in all areas except the idler arm. This all pro hi steer setup is way stronger than ifs and stock solid axle parts IF you install them correctly and keep an eye on them. Keep in mind that most problems including our fiasco are caused by neglagence or instalation error. This would have been easily avoidable had we just did a pre flight inspection. There is no substitute for experience. I wouldn't say that SFA is better all the time either, but for wheel articulation its hard to beat.

Where about in Texas are you, I just went through that HUGE state a few months ago. I really liked the Austin area and it looked like there was lots of open land. Oh yeah I had some of the best BBQ ever at the Salt Lick near Austin too, ever been there?

sschaefer3

It gets worse, I know where you where and the road that goes to Crown King. If you go past it, you get to the "no joke" sign and that is where the poo really starts to fly.

Glad you got out. That is a rough area, in places.

AgRunner06

I'm from Georgetown which is about 30 miles north of Austin. I've spent too much time in that city. That's probably the reason I go to school in College Station now (although I like Georgetown better). It does have it's perks but the traffic quickly kills that. Yeah there is plenty of open land outside of Austin and traveling through the state but it's all privately owned. There isn't any public land with trails that I know of. I can't say that I've eaten at the Salt Lick but if you like bar-b-que and you are traveling though central Texas, try to go to Llano and eat Coopers Bar-B-Que.

http://www.coopersbbq.com/

Just driving into town makes your mouth water. I'd have to say it is the best bar-b-que I've ever eaten. Make sure you have some beans too. Hmmm...

:bounce2:

benman

When I get back to Texas I'll definately check out Coopers BBQ. I highly recommend the Salt Lick since you live kinda close. I think it was 11 bucks for a family style all you can eat plate of brisket, ribs and sausage. Then they give you beans, tater salad, cole slaw, pickles and fresh bread. I ate so much I could hardly walk out of the place

Does anyone who is familiar with the Tip Top area know which road after the tin shed goes through to Cow Creek? Is there any way up to horse thief?

westy44runner

Preferably I would like to find a road that heads northwest and meets up with the Crown King Trail north of the trailhead near Cow Creek area...but south of the town of Crown King...and I am pretty sure I have read somewhere its possible.

B

westy44runner

[QUOTE=
I know the SFA is better, but would you say that IFS is more reliable? From what the other guys said, the causes of your problem seems to be pretty common.

Glad you got it all back together and fixed.

:bounce2:[/QUOTE]

The SFA is just as reliable but there are a few things you need to always keep an eye on such as the steering arms...lug nuts with the spacers...this being due to its a custom setup rather than stock and like anything custom it takes more maintence...but I wouldnt have anything else for the trail.

the solid axle is MUCH stronger though then the IFS setups, especially the 86-95 IFS, the idler arm is always a problem...bent...broken...and it always seemed to get out of alignment...

sschaefer3

Yes it is, I know where it is.

sschaefer3

Everyone wants a SA to be a "ramp champ" but like the boy said, the real advantages are strength.

My good buddy "Cheese" destroys IFS steering parts EVERY time out now. BUT, this and the conversation above is all about the original 1986-1995 IFS which was complete crap.

The 1996+ coil/shock with the steering rack is far superior, Funny thing is that my old steering rack was more powerful than the FJ-62 box I'm running now, which is no comparison to the IFS steering box most people run. When it comes to the FJ line, the engineers design all new/original parts, there is not a single common shared Mini/4Runner part on any FJ.

I know where the crown king road from tip top is and I know where no joke is.

westy44runner

Yeah, Thanks Steve..it was an adventure..but glad it happened...we learned alot in the process and everything worked out great.

Which road are you refering to Steve? At the Tin Shed area the road splits into 3 sections. Which one(s) head to the Crown King road? The road that tracks north of the Tin sheds...or the one that heads west and thru the white gate to the (hard hat area sign) or the one that heads south past the old mans trailer/house??

Once it cools down we will make another trek back out to explore. It is definitely a rough area..and even more remote.

B

westy44runner

Share to care?? Feel free to email if you prefer. Thanks.

Brian

sschaefer3

This road will take you to Horse Theif Basin which will then take you to Crown King

N34 05.908 W112 16.028

This is the road that alot of people "think" will take you there, but it will not

N34 06.894 W112 14.871

This is a hell of a spot that roll overs occur often

N34 05.203 W112 13.459

This is the "No Joke" sign warning people to have 2 lockers or don't go in, "No Joke".

N34 05.410 W112 13.381



The road to Horse Theif is the only road on any map to Crown King, there are alot of little incomplete trails, etc. that you "may" be able to find a way to the Lake Pleasant trail.