It's cool with me Mike, I didn't run any of the Hard trails last year and I plan to this year. So the only repeat for me would be Holy Cross, cause I road with Jeff. But I'm sure driving will be a different experience.

I vote for making this as big as possible to avoid making Moab too large.

I would be happy to run Chinamen's, Holy Cross and Wheeler.

I think that we will see the next step of the evolution to see even more double locked rigs on 33's ready to do all of the "harder" stuff. If the easy, medium, double pants distinctions stay in tact, I would bet the upper half of that is filled up and overflowing. I don't mean to discourage the gradation or being elite, but even more people will have the gear for the harder stuff.

I don't have my Wells book here, but are there any other options for stuff in the area? The haul to Holy Cross was quite a distance.

I would be happy to run Chinamen's, Holy Cross and Wheeler.

That is my desire as well Adrian.
Scott

By the way, for everyone who hasn't been, a rear locker (optionally TRAC) is adequate for the harder trails, although Holy Cross and Chinaman's do have obstacles that benefit from dual lockers.

That is - with 33's and a lift.

By the way, for everyone who hasn't been, a rear locker (optionally TRAC) is adequate for the harder trails, although Holy Cross and Chinaman's do have obstacles that benefit from dual lockers.

I respect your opinion and you are local while I am forced to offer cheese bound conjecture, but I was pretty disappointed with some of the inadequacy of meeting trail recomendations. I did not nail every line I tried, but I think I avoided wanton floundering that plagued some.

I would say after doing those trails, a rear locker is adequate, but if you want to really have fun, come with two or a good spotter that you are willing and able to both listen to and follow.

I agree that there was a distinct "bell curve" last year - that there are a whole lot of vehicles with "some" modifications to allow them to rapidly fill up the "moderate" trails. The number of VERY capable vehicles is also growing.
I'm really not aware of other "good" options nearby (but if anyone is, please speak up. I won't be offended).
Iron Chest was destroyed. I don't know if they rebuilt it. It still might still be a worthwhile easy/moderate trail if it remains "paved".

Another possible trail that's a further drive (comparable to the drive to Holy Cross) but moderate is Red Cone and Radical Hill. It would probably be a long day only due to the mileage. I think it's a fun trail and would be enjoyable for our group.

There's an obscure trail called Grizzly Lake near Iron Chest. I don't know where it is but would be a moderate/difficult rating. I know Mitsu guys have been looking for it for a couple years to no avail. It might cross private property at the start???

Minesweeper is a difficult trail east of Salida (30-45 min drive), but the trail is only 1.5 hours long. If you can't drive the best-built vehicle in your group up the first obstacle (called winch-n-go) then you don't have a winch point and no one can do the trail anyway. (It took 45 minutes and some luck to get my friend Corbin up it).

The Carnage Canyon trail next to Old Chinaman's Gulch is "extreme" and basically requires 37's and an exo or tube frame, etc. That's quite the minority within our gang.

Otherwise, last years trails are about the best in that area (IMHO).

And sliders on Chinaman's, but we'll cover this all when we have sign-ups. I just didn't want anyone to worry that they needed a front locker to go on the hard trails.


I'll admit Chinaman's was a case study in floundering, but there's a bypass on that obstacle now. And I know a certain person winched their way over Holy Cross' French Creek. But other than that, I don't recall much floundering. If those are that incicents you're thinking of, I think we can avoid that this year by just asking people to by courteous and recognize when their rigs aren't up to the task (and look at it as next winter's "upgrade" assigment).

The Grizzly Lake trail starts where Iron Chest makes that initial right hand turn. You go straight instead of right. There is a gate there, but the private property is on either side of the road, not the road itself.

Here's a report on TrailDamage.

Hmmm, maybe this would be a good time for our CO roadtrip...

Dang I need to get locked!

Mike and Scott - out of curiosity did you entertain the thought of doing this years C04RJ in the Redcone area? I've always like those trials up there, Radical Hill, Middle fork of the swan (is that the rock garden one?), Webster pass, Redcone, etc. Those would be great for a 2 day event.

Just a thought.

John

A big loop that includes Red Cone and Radical Hill might be a worthwhile addition - even if only for variety, despite the 45-60 min drive to the trailhead. Most of the other trails around there are somewhat "easier" I'd say, but the scenery is great. (But I agree that that's a possible area for a gathering like this).
A portion of that was the guy with the old pickup that snuck onto that trail with the very open diffs despite the CO4RJ trail requirements for Chinaman's (at least one locker or ATRAC). He didn't actually register for CO4RJ so I didn't know about it til afterwards. Then I was .

There is a bypass around the new obstacle now.

That list sounds good to me. Well, I guess I can attempt Holy Cross and Chinaman's now with the latest upgrades.

I thought that Mike's brother did decent with open diffs, but it was not gentle to watch or to be that truck. In my mind, there were times that an open front seemed a problem. Maybe Martin at Holy Cross just haunts me too much.

Where is Red Cone, etc? For you locals, having it closer to Denver, like Buena Vista seems to be in my head, seems advantageous to having more and avoiding too much off work time.

Lance, the ARB's are in?

Well, right now the diffs (with ARBs and PG 4.88s) are staring at me from across the room. I am waiting for some free time to do the install, along with an extra set of hands with some experience .

Oh Boy! Oh Boy! Oh Boy!

Nathrop sounds good to me agian this year. I am only 15 minutes away.

Props to Mike and Scott for heading this up.

Mike,

Since I am so close to the event, if I can help let me know.

I should have the sliders on next week and the lift bought and installed by August.

Red Cone trailhead is near Grant, CO, which is about halfway between Denver and Buena Vista (so it's a 1 hour drive to the trailhead). You'd probably come back through Breckenridge, Hoosier Pass, near Wheeler Lake, etc.

If we did the Breckenridge area (Redcone, etc.), I'm not sure where we'd camp. But it is really beautiful terrain. We could probalby still do Wheeler Lake, as it's only an half hour from Breckenridge, if even that. I think we'd need more ideas for trails. I'm not really sure Holy Cross would be any further. I think Chinaman's would be about an hour away. Personally, I've never done Red Cone, and don't really want to. I'm just thinking out loud...

I think the primary advantage would be the stocker trails would be more spectacular. (Actuallly, I don't know what the scenery was like on the easier trails last year.)

If anyone has ideas for an alternate camp location, and what trails we might do, by all means, post them. We'd have to do some pre-runs to check it all out.

Adrian, I can't think any other good "runs" closer to the campground. I like the idea of the location for the camp site. Especially since everyone knows where it is etc. Chinamans, Wheeler and Holy Cross are all great runs in the area.

One good day could be:

285 to Red Cone\Weston pass
Radical Hill to Glacier Ridge
Down Glacier Ridge and up the secret rock garden to Georgia Pass
Down Georgia Pass to 285 and back to camp.

I'm thinking an 8 hour trip with the group, 8-5pm. Not sure. It would be a difficult run, yet relatively easy with a well built Runner and experience.

I haven't done Red Cone yet, but I've seen it via Weston - and it could be optional for the group I sure. It looks like some intense exposure.

Another idea would be Twin Peaks near Kenosha Pass. It's about an hour from the trailhead. Takes about 3 hours to run the trail and it has a few obstacle near the top. One is very steep.

All of this discussion really makes me want to get out and wheel. This CO4RJ will be great I am sure.

Thanks for the early start on the planning!