What kind of welding class should I be taking?
 

Hi guys,

I've learned a lot here over the past year and love the community vibe - you guys are invaluable! I've become pretty handy over the last couple years with repairs and have done the following on my own:
- Timing chain replacement
- Rear Diff gasket change
- Brakes
- ZUK mod (cutting but no welding)
- Header and exhaust (with cutting - wahoo! Paid a shop to weld up the joints)
- Other smaller stuff

That said, i really want to move on to the next stage: Welding.

There is a really cool place called Techshop in the SF Bay Area that offers classes, and offers rentals of tools if you don't have them (you must be certified through them to use some tools). I'd like to learn to weld for the following applications (in order of how soon I want to tackle):

1) Suspension: Want to do a Chevy Spring Swap at some point

2) Bumper: I'd like to some day build a rear bumper with tire swing out

3) Interior: I'd like to fab up a new center console to replace my dying plastic one, and incorporate some more usability to it


Now, I've read a little about the different types of welding, and talked to a few folks about it, but wanted to hear it from you guys who know; is there one type that can handle all three of these?

MIG and TIG are the 2 I've heard the most about.

Here are the classes I'm looking at:
http://techshop.ws/take_classes.html?categoryId=24


I'm looking for the lowest cost to use, and preferably the easiest to learn. Are any of the welding styles "too weak" to handle what I want to do or will they all suffice?


Thanks for your input guys!

Phil

I took classes about 10-12 yrs. ago at CCOC down in San Jose (link at the bottom of this page):
- http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri....shtml#Welding

They cover all welding techniques, start with arc, then gas then mig then tig. Mig would probably be the least expensive and most applicable to what you want to make. Tig is better for thin sheet metal and for aluminum, but is harder to master and needs more specialized equipment and gas.

Phil....I'm with you bud.

I have really gotten to the point where I want to do things instead of paying someone to do them for me.

I've seen lots and lots of welders for sale, Craigslist and Harbor Freight / Northern Tools / Sears etc and have wondered what would be right for me as essentially a "goofing around" kinda application such as fabbing up bumpers and maybe in the future, a bed for my truck.

so i will stay tuned to see what everyone says.

wow another welding class thread, gonna have to plug this in from the other thread, might help out 92 TOY as well since he's local.

Course Description:
This course is designed to provide the student with information related to various types of welding principles utilizing oxy-fuel, stick, mig, and tig welding procedures with emphasis on proper equipment usage and safety operations. These welding procedures will be used in conjunction with parts, chassis, engine, rear axle/front axle and component design, measurement, alignment and fabrication to produce a finished product utilizing the methods of production associated with this manufacturing environment.

I learned welding in the following order

Oxy accelting (spelling?)
Arc
Mig
Tig

I found oxy accelting really develops puddle control, which helps on all types of welding. Arc is a good all-purpose welding method but having the right rod for the right metal is kind of tricky to figure out. 7013 rod is pretty good for most types of mild cold rolled steel. Mig is by far the easiest, but takes some time to get the wire speed, gas and current at the right settings. Tig is the hardest in all respects, but if you can master it...the stuff you can do with is endless.

Try them all, but my prefered method is Mig.

I got an associates degree in welding tech out of high school and it is a real nice skill to have. Konwing how to do all the diffrent types of welding mentioned is good but really for what you doing a MIG is your best option. Just remeber to have pateints with it, it is not going to look like a robot did it espeically from the start, and you get what you pay for with machines and wire.

Go with a 220 volt machine from a welding store (there is a big diffrence between the lincon at lowes and the one at the welding store), good quality wire, and sheilding gas, I like argon but CO2 will work. If you use a flux-core wire it will not be the appearance you would like for bumpers and interior work. For suspension work you will have to make 2 or 3 little passes to get the penatration you need.

Thanks Everyone - this is some great information thus far - really appreciate it, as I know there must be other threads like this - I just wanted to get a specifc recommendation, given what I want to eventually do with it. Patience I have, money I don't, so that's why I asked what of these methods would work for each of my goals - sounds like all of them would. Seems like all of them will work for what I want and are good "Starters", with the exception of TIG, which is the hardest of all to master, and more applicable to thinner metals like bodywork.

This is great stuff guys, thanks!

taking a class is a great place to start. i took one at UCD and it was one of the best classes I ever took...took that knowledge and made some sweet armor for my old K5 blazer. we, too, started out small with brazing techniques, oxy/acetylene welding to learn "the puddle", then we went to ARC, and finished out on the MIGs because the TIG was broken. I dunno why, but I've always liked ARC welding - just something about it...a monkey can take a MIG and point and shoot the thing...but an ARC just felt so raw and took some actual skill to get right.

you could also go and pick up a decent used welder, read up on welding techniques, watch some youtube videos, and start playing with some scrap on your own. clamp your "test piece" in a vice and have a whack at it with a sledge to see how well you did.

if money is an issue, you might be able to pick up a decent new/used 110v MIG welder for your smaller stuff and a new/used ARC welder for the thick stuff/frame-mounted stuff. it's the good 220v MIGs and TIGs that will always be priced high on the used market...but sometimes the right deal might fall into your hands if you look for them. all this talk about welders makes me wanna hurry up and get a subpanel in my garage so I can run some equipment! damn 70s underbuilt engineering...

Take a basic course that touches on , oxy gas cutting, stick, mig and tig. I am taking one at Napa valley College, 2 nights a week. If I don't find a job soon I may take it full time, and get an Assoc. degree.

Get this book if you can.
http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/s...e/_MG_4246.jpghttp://i561.photobucket.com/albums/s...e/_MG_4247.jpg

I'm currently taking welding in my high school. Right now I'm on stick welding.

It's basically a prep class for becoming a professional welder because there's a pretty big boat company near my school that wants welders, so they pay for alot of our equipment and rods.

First I learned to weld flat, then horizontal at shoulder level, then vertical welding, and now I just started learning how to weld stick over my head.

It's taken me about 2 months at 5 hours a week to almost get stick welding mastered.
It takes a while but once you get it its not so hard (except vertical welding is a PITA:mad2:).

It counts as a college credit so I could continue it after highschool if I wanted but I just want to be a recreational welder so I can start fabbing up my own stuff.:welder:

Overhead is hard to master I found. Especially with say 6012, 7018 much better.

I took 3 welding class's in highschool. Also took two at lbcc in albany oregon. Focused mostly on stick. But once you learn the basics its all just practice after that. Man i miss college, althou 6-10:30pm was a wierd time for a welding class's. I havent really did much welding since i left school besides exhaust thou. I do suggest in getting a good auto mask. :welder:

i agree with TylerH. get a good adjustable shade auto mask. nothing worse then being in a tight spot and not being able to see before you start your weld. or flipping your hood down and moving your hand and loosing your starting point. if you have a 220v hookup at your place look into a good quality 220v machine. most quality mig machines you can turn down and with smaller wire can go well on thin sheet also. like body work. mig is the easiest to use. point and pull the trigger. and if your welding outside in any bad weather you can switch to flux wire and not worry about gas. plus it burns hotter for more penetration. a good machine can hook up to a spool gun for aluminum. but use a lil darker shade lens in your hood. and the new millers have an auto set thats pretty close and takes out the guess work. and practice, practice, practice.

In a pinch I got the auto mask from Harbor freight, 40 bucks I think.

I took a metal working class with an emphasis in welding. It was a month long class with a great instructor. A few days watching through a helmet how the instructor was welding helped me tremendously. I had a rough idea but didn't fully understand how to move molten metal around.
I really became confident after I bought my Miller and started practicing on odds and ends. It really doesn't take long to get the hang of it. As long as you understand what the welder and the process is doing.
I can tell you one thing - I can't believe how much money I have saved having a good welder and welding myself. I have been able to fab or fix anything on both my rigs. It really was a turning point for me to be able to weld and have a good welder.
Good luck!

Wow guys - thanks again for all the great feedback! I plan to tackle this early in the new year and will report back what class(es) I end up taking and how it goes.

Thanks Teuf for the book reference as well - I'll look for it at the library.

Phil

shaweet!! this book looks sick.. i wish i could find a pdf version :cry2:

I needed it for class, was dang 70 bucks or so, Amazon.

Yeah, it seems like a sick book. they have a the mig chapter on this site
http://www.g-w.com/SelectedBook.aspx...10#titleheader

its very nice and indepth. Im going to see if they have this book locally because its just great.

I would have to say start with the basic course.

Learning Oxy-acetylene welding makes learning GTAW so easy at least for me.

Being raised with a striker on my belt till this day I reach for the fuel gas torch for steel Even though the plasma is just as close

When I went to school Plasma cutting was only in the high end manufacturing plants and not within budget of the area votech as they were called back then.

I think the people who don`t master SMAW lack alot of skills that make the other processes so much easier.

These skills become muscle memory that at least with me become so ingrained I don`t think about doing them.

I was lucky I had some great teachers . Those kind pick up on the fact you want to be there rather then you are sent by the company .

for these basic jobs a Mig and TIG class would be good, if you get good at tig you can have flawless welds that are very strong, however the Mig process is much quicker and easier to learn.

I haven't tried overhead on 6012, I found it easier to use on flat though than the 7018, doesn't stick as much.

But I found overhead with 7018 not too difficult. I've only done a couple of passes though. Still think vertical was the hardest to master. My instructor told me to think of overhead exactly like doing flat, only upside down of course.

It's definitely my favorite class, and I'm the farthest in it:P But it's a little hard to learn in sometimes, alot of immature kids in there. I've had my amps turned up to 300, been poked with rods, and had things thrown at me while welding :mad2: Have to learn patience haha.


It really helps when you have a good instructor that you can watch. I couldn't imagine learning on my own.

Holy Toledo, first thing our instructor said, No Grab Ass, or your out. Its a night class so its small and manageable.

yeap, same here. We got 6 guys in my class so everyone gets help. Lol the instructor is kept busy with them :baby:

Thanks again guys for the replies :)

Get yourself a auto darkening helmet.. makes a world of difference for beginners.

In any of the welding or cutting processes The 2 most important things are being able to see and being comfortable!!!!

If you are not comfortable your not going to be able to make the best welds you can.

I know myself sometimes being rushed for time like last weekend welding on some shock mounts after a U joint flip kit install .

I know my welds are not up to what they could have been had I taken the time to get said vehicle high enough to sit in a comfortable position.We all sometimes have to break the self imposed rules

For what it`s worth here in this part of the USA the only way you can get into a GTAW or GMAW class is to prove to the teacher that you are ready to move on by passing what ever test he throws your way in SMAW

This could be a informal vertical up 6010 root with a 7018 fill and cover in 3/8" plate or it could be the section 9 ASME test. Depending on the teacher and what he feels like.

:camp:

Been to school for welding and welded tig in the boilermakers union. IMHO... arc welding is the most useful welding there is ... In a boiler shop you are not allowed to use a mig welder.We did not even have one because the welds will not pass Xray or UT inspections. In the case of arc welding if you watch a skilled welder, his rod control how he controls heat with the arc etc . and you understand how the process works, all you need is practice and lots of it .... I tig welded boiler tubes which is a very tedius job (1/2"to 1" dia) and everything I learned was from watching senior welders around me. Classes are great but more times that not all your paying for is the use of the machine. Buy a machine ... find someone who is a good welder have him come over a couple times watch his techniqes and PRACTICE ..... Just my 2 cents

If its done correctly it will...

i guess it really depends on the instructor and the resources available in the shop. if just taking one class, i would say GMAW because of the application. for a non career welder, it would be the most useful. maybe if you were to take 2 classes, i would add Oxy-Fuel Systems. Learning to cut and weld with Oxy-Fuel gives you a basic knowledge and somewhat of an intro to GTAW because of the total control and focus of puddle manipulation. Also, its a good introduction to the theory involved. My list would go as so.
Oxy-Fuel Systems, SMAW, GMAW,GTAW, etc.
The Harbor Freight hoods are good for using a couple of times, but the sensors arent worth the trouble. spend some more money and get a hood worth at least $150. with the hoods, you are paying about 95% for the sensors, so you REALLY get what you pay for.
Good luck!

Well I am enjoying weld class and will begin the second class next month. The teacher is good in that he let me mess around with a mini mig, and I made this gas can holder.
http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/s..._MG_4278_2.jpghttp://i561.photobucket.com/albums/s..._MG_4277_2.jpghttp://i561.photobucket.com/albums/s...e/_MG_4281.jpghttp://i561.photobucket.com/albums/s...e/IMG_4295.jpghttp://i561.photobucket.com/albums/s..._MG_4352_2.jpghttp://i561.photobucket.com/albums/s..._MG_4350_2.jpg:wrench::welder::welder::king:

Nice can holder. Looks like something you paid good money for!

That looks awesome Teuf! Now your making me wanna fab one of those up haha.

Teuf,

That looks fantastic! Depending how christmas goes, I'm going to take a class in january or february through "tech shop" here in the bay area, then start massing around on my own. I'm going to start with MIG and go from there. I will updates the thread :)

Thanks guys, great stuff!

if you can weld a 5" thick can with a mig welder that will hold 6000psi be my guest ..... you can stand next to the weld during the hydro test ....

Yes because he's welding 5" on his truck... mig is plenty for what i assume he's going to be using. no need to trash talk mig.

Migs are good, welders for the common folk.:bowdown::welder::safari:

Anybody in the Bay Area should checkout The Crucible : www.thecrucible.org
Different classes, weekend intensives, and a lot of other really cool inspirational artisrty in many industrial arts mediums. I took a GMAW weekend intensive to unlearn some bad habits and reinforce some good ones.:coffee:

i work at Wanapum Dam in Washington State and our new brackets we just made to support the weight of a 500+ ton unit and the brakes to stop them while spinning 85.7 rpm (over 100 mph at the stator) were all welded with a mig welder. and yes thay all passed inspection. so mig my not always be the best i agree, but they are strong when done right too.