For those considering a s/c, here are some thoughts
 

Since I got my truck a few months ago, I've been debating on a s/c. Everyone here with one has been great in answering questions but I wanted to know what was the minimum required in terms of parts, dollars and labor to make the truck run well and last long. I talked w/ URD and here is what I was told. This agrees with most of the s/c people on this board.

1. You'll need, at a minimum, the s/c, fuel kit, cat back exhaust system, smaller pulley (2.2), and a bunch of tools that tune the s/c.
2. I've searched the net and even talked to a friend who's husband works for Toyota. The cheapest I could find a new s/c was $1999 from a Toyota dealer. This is less than $200 more than dealer cost. Fuel mods from URD is another $1000. The pulley and cat back exhaust can be had for as low as $400 but can go as high as $1000 depending on what you get. All the tuning tools are about $400.
3. Totaling this all, you get $3500 - $4000. This is the bare minimum suggested.
4. You can be creative like Christian (96runner) and do a donor mod but I'm not mechanically inclined.
5. Total labor is approximately 8 hours so depending on the shop per hour cost, you can figure this out.

Good luck to anyone that can use this info. It was helpful for me in determining to do the regear instead and deal with the stock power of the 3.4. I'm not complaining but seeing people do 300 to the wheels and a guy that can do a 14 sec quarter mile is pretty awesome. Just not for me right now...

to the point :)

The exhaust isn't a must and the fuel mod is nice but there are alot of people that run fine w/o it but it can be hit and miss.

If you check here and ebay you'll see some people unload a whole package deal for under $2k for the SC and fuel kit.

don't you have to upgrade your transmission?

No,there's plenty of people that just run the SC around here but our altitude does help reduce/eliminate pinging issues due to the SC not making the same power up here at over a mile high asl.

There are definitely deals if you're willing to go used. I wasn't for a number of reasons, one being I don't know crap about cars and didn't want to get stuck w/ a broken s/c. My list was only for those that were considering the s/c new.

The fuel mods from what I've read and talking to URD are a must. What I said was to get the truck running well and to last long. Some don't have issues but if I spent all the cash on the other items and I didn't do the fuel mods, I may be sorry later. Plus, install is a one-time shop for all the items listed.

Nah... The stock pulley will give you plenty of kick. When you want MORE, then go smaller - but ONLY if you have ALL of the fuel mods.


For an automatic, you "should" but many folks haven't (myself included) because of the additional cost and downtime (about $1000). If you don't, then you'll find that the 1st-2nd shift will be slippery, and get worse the more you stand on it. In short, you'll want to stay out of heavy boost without tranny work.

Mine was a refurb from the dealer. Only 1400. I do not have a cat back or any other fuel mods. I have a lot more power over the stock 3.4. I hope to get a header and a cat back at some point.

I've seen new ones go on here for about $1500 and alot of people get a charger and then don't like the MPGs from a heavy foot or having to use premium and sell thier SCs with under 10,000 on 'em for about the same price plus it is a Toyota part.

I've had the S/C for just over a year, and got a way with it for $1000 new. I've got an exhaust, and so far have had no pinging or felt a change in my tranny. Elevation here in Utah helps too...

My SC was under $1500 used.

I installed myself.

I added a tranny cooler at $70 and some other odds and ends.

Never had significant HGLR ping but did drop about $50 on plugs.

All up, I had around $1700 in mine.

I did already have a TRD cat back but would happliy have installed without.

David

Good thread. Has anyone heard any update(s) from URD about their turbo kit for the 3.4? :think:

Yeah go to this thread on CT...


http://www.customtacos.com/ubbthread...&o=186&fpart=1

I've seen this baby in person up close-- Guy lives pretty close to me & Dave (TRDOLMAN) All I can say is WOW....!!! very impressive... :great:

https://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a...y/DSC02083.jpg

Thanks for the link. I will have some reading to do when I get home from work later. :great:

Thanks, I like being called creative. :great:

I know "URD kit" and "TRD SC'r" go hand in hand these days, but I would like to point out that it can be done without going with the full URD kit. Here is exactly what you need to completely eliminate the dreaded 2000 - 3000 (HG/LR) ping and high end fuel starvation:

1. Walbro 190 $85
2. 2-step colder plugs $25
3. Coolant change with water wetter $25
4. NAPA 170 degree thermo $12
5. Free FMU mod
6. SMT 6 $350

TOTAL: about $500 in addition to the SC'r

And for the record, Gadget told me he was approved to be a SMT dealer. He was just waiting on more success stories before pulling the trigger. He asked that I let him know when I finally got it working correctly (Mark, Johnny and I that is), and I did. But I never heard back from him. :dunno:

Oh well. Anyway, with the stock injectors and the mods above, you can ditch the ping and run with an open deckplate. My next step is to hook up an EGT meter to call it a done deal with utmost certainty, but it sure looks like that has been accomplished. Yes, I did retard the heck out the timing in the 2K to 3K range (-4 to -9), but you get used to it.

Anyway, good call on the re-gear. I did that first too. Then I wanted more, and jumped on the opportunity when it presented itself. Total cost out of my pocket: $0 :rockon:

Something confuses me about turbo setups... How is it that a turbo produces more get-up-and-go at the same boost pressure that "we" are with S/Cs?

All of that might be necessary IF you run a smaller pulley. If you stick with the stock pulley, as someone said earlier, you can get out alot cheaper. Hell, all i did was change plugs and run premium. No ping for the 20k miles i drove with it on. Oh and I put it on at 90,000 miles. I sold car with 113k miles and as far as I know shes still going strong, just ask Northfacer581.

You can find the SC's new on ebay for under 2k all the time. It just takes some looking and patience. I will be putting one on my tacoma if I can find it for cheap.

Thanks for the input and I'm sure this will help others that are trying to decide. This list is not the bare minimum. It is if you want to have someone else install everything and are looking for cost/benefit.

You don't have to put in a smaller pulley but for $137, why not? If you put the smaller pulley and you feel like I do that not putting in fuel mods will cause faster engine wear, then this is minimum for me. Not to mention installing all these items I noted together would be the most beneficial from a cost perspective on install or a time perspective for those mechanically inclined to do so.

I love ebay and have bought many items on it. However, putting down over $1k for a s/c that may or may not be new is a tough pill for me to swallow. If you guys are comfortable with this, cool. If I could get a brand new s/c today for $1k, I would buy it right now and hold it till I can save for the rest. As I said earlier, dealer cost is $1800 and change (verified by Toyota corporate). If someone is selling you one of these for less, then they're taking a loss, stole the item, or something shady maybe going on.

Keep chiming in with your thoughts as this could become a sticky for people looking into a s/c...

And, like many of us "tuned" SC'd guys mention to the "non-tuned" guys in each thread like this, just because you don't hear the ping doesn't mean you aren't damaging the motor. That is exactly why I tuned out the audible ping, then retarded the timing a couple degrees more in the "hot zones" for added security. However, I am fully aware that I need to check my EGT's to make sure my motor is truly ok. The guys at or around sea level running with no mods are playing roulette. Plain and simple.

Turbo produces more hp because it is intercooled air. Colder, more dense air equals more hp, with less psi. It is a problem to trying to intercool a s/c because you must cool the pressurized air, pressurized air on MOST s/c is located right after the throttle body. Its hard to try to intercool at that section because by the time you reroute everything thing you would have lost pressure and horses. Many companies have tried esp, with Hondas but the cost exceeds the benefits. Some intercooler kits ran up towards the 3000, just for the s/c intercooler kit. Turbo is a good route because it uses waste energy, the exhaust air, to pressurize the air. Turbo has no paradrastic drag on the motor like s/c. With the turbo technology these days, you could get pretty instant turbo response from a big snail, without the lag. Well, turbo does not usually have the instant torque that s/c has. I hope this kit will be mass market so the cost will go down. I have been waiting for a affordable priced turbo kit for the 3.4 motor, for a long while now.

Whoa... hang on a minute.

The 2.2" pulley ("one step" smaller) is probably the SMALLEST I would go without running one more thing... a misting system. The reason being is that as you've heard, Christian (96 runner) has had to retard his timing a BUNCH to get rid of ping - I'm even more "retarded" (:)) with my 2.2" pulley.

If you go to a 2.1" or a 2.0" pulley then you will burn the crap out of the motor unless you find someway to slow down the burn of the fuel. That means a higher octane number or retarding the timing even more. A misting system does well to create the burn equivilant of a higher octane, thus giving you a slower burn, thus reducing the ping.

And in reality... With my 1-step colder plugs, a spark kicker and -10's and -11's in my ignition map, I still ping under load with the 2.2" pulley. I can "drive around it", but it's not safe.



Ahh right. I knew that. :) Thank you!

Huh? The ONLY difference in a supercharger and a turbocharger (which is technically named a turbosupercharger) is the way they are driven. You are cooling pressurized air on a turbo also - it is the compression itself that creates the heat! Intercooling does indeed have the effect you talk about (denser oxygen charge), but there is NO difference in intercooling a supercharger and a turbocharger. Well, other than the plumbing involved as you mention. It is truly impossible to intercool a supercharger built straight onto the intake, but it would be impossible to intercool a turbo mounted the same way. As a matter of fact, Seadoo even makes a jetski that has an intercooled supercharger (making 215 HP!). I have not seen the TRD s/c kit, so I'm not sure where it's mounted, and whether the proposed turbo is intercooled or not.

The advantage to turbo is less polar inertia (lighter rotor) and no parasitic drag.

It's mounted such that it becomes the intake manifold. You pull the stock intake manifold & plenum and bolt the S/C right on top of the block. There's no chance for an intercooler.

http://www.gadgetonline.com/Super.JPG

That would indeed make intercooling difficult! Water injection...propane...nitrous....LOL

Exactly. The smaller the pulley, the greater the heat. This is the smallest pulley (according to URD) that can be run w/o a misting system. Again, these statements are only for those that believe that you do everything to have the truck run well and for a long period of time. You can do anything you want; run smaller pulleys, don't do fuel mods, don't tune the sucker; but as Christian stated above, you're gambling. Wasn't willing to do this w/ a DD.

Ok am I missing something here?????????

From what I see of the estimated costs here for adding a SC.
Couldn't you buy a whole motor from LC engineering with a SC or a Turbo and come
in under the estimated prices?

Then sell your old motor and cut the costs even further.

This seems way to obvious. Let me know what I am missing.

Thanks

Not missing anything. I have a V6 and most of my understanding of LCE is that they work w/ 4-bangers. Just not willing to do a motor swap on my DD. Not to mention that the S/C guys can get over 300 to the wheels w/ a bolt-on type of setup.

lol it was the V6 part I was missing. I have the 22re and I ASSUMED...everyone else did too.

I really gotta start reading things more carefully.

Thanks for pointing out the obvious. : )

I read that whole thread and they are making references to pics but no links anywhere. (it was also funny to read how one guy thought using an aquamist system split the H2O into oxygen and hydrogen to let you burn more fuel.....um, no, that is called electrolysis).

Does anyone have any links to pics for Gadget's new turbo setup?

Is this it?
http://www.customtacos.com/gallery2/...m/DSC02504.jpg

Look at the injector rail setup on the far right (attached to the intake runners!)
.....water injection?

I know it is kind of off topic, but I was wondering how much it would be if I needed to purchase gaskets and all of the hardware that came with a supercharger. The only thing I would have is the supercharger itself, no belts or bolts. Any estimate would be very helpful, I may be able to score one cheap without the hardware and such. Thanks,
Jason

call evan at northridge toyota.
Shouldn't be that bad at all

hmmmm, I'll try that this afternoon, Thanks,
Jason

There have been a few threads on the other parts already for you:
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f2/oh-no-not-another-s-c-question-52998/

If the S/C is used you might want to look into rebuilding it too:
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f2/heres-nose-drive-bearing-part-numbers-1st-gen-s-c-31363/

Jamie---that IS Gadget's turbo setup. That injector rail has 6 additional fuel injectors mounted in it controlled by a special URD additional injector controller. The setup uses the stock injectors in the engine and the stock ECU so off boost/closed loop is basically stock with no tuning issues. I rode in it. It absolutely hauls ass.

"drool" :)

Thanks for clearing that up Dave!
The more I see of turbo setups for the 3.4L, the more I am thinking that is how I will go on mine.
They aren't quite as "bolt on" as a S/C but the tuning capability is just amazing.

Hello everyone, This is Tom Cham from Hong Kong. I am new here & have just fitted the TRD s/c'r to my Toyota Prado It seems that most of the gas station in USA supply Octane 90 or 93 fuel. We use Octance 98 fuel in Hong Kong only. I am going to order a 2.2" s/c'r pulley & fuel upgrade kit from URD. Anyone here tried Octance 98 fuel in USA with 2.2" pulley & no fuel upgrade mod?

It was much more enjoyable to drive my Prado (very similar to 4Runner) with s/c'r and I would love to get a bit more :D

Any recommendation will be greatly appreciated. :yotarock:

Hi Tom -

The stock fuel pump needs to be upgraded no matter what. It is simply not up to the task of the increased fuel demands at sustained boost - especially if you plan on going to the 2.2 pulley. Furthermore, the timing problem (too much advancement in the stock map) between 2K and 3K (HG/LR) is not "solved" with fuel that can burn longer. Sure, pre-detonation will be reduced with 98, but you still need to install something that will take control of the timing, such as the SMT or FTC.

I wouldn't even drive the vehicle without the Walbro 190 - even with 98 octane fuel.

wow... there are no less than 3 active threads on the S/C.

head's up folks, there's similar information being shared in all of them....

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77119
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f2/those-considering-s-c-here-some-thoughts-71987/
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f2/got-s-c-piggyback-wanna-try-something-77040/

Not to mention the PM's I am getting! :) You getting them too Mark?

(No big deal, it's just that the information exists; unfortunately it's spread out all over the place now)