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Starting Woes - Need some guidance
1998 Taco, 3.4l SR5 - been sitting for a few years, need to get it running again. Was running fine when it was parked, I parked it. Recently got a battery, and no start. Got a new starter, still no start. Decided to replace the starter relay since it was easy and cheap, still no start.
Tested continuity everywhere, from terminal to starter, both positive and negative, but when it came to testing the trigger/ignitiion start connection, its a bit more difficult, and I'm not 100% sure my test worked. If it did, I'm not getting battery voltage to that wire. If that's the case, then where do I go next? What can I test or replace or anything?? I've even made sure its not seized, it turns at the crank. I've heard others say they could connect the positive side of the starter to the solenoid and jump it... but I'm not sure how that's done when the solenoid is inside the starter, so maybe I"m missing something there.... ** EDIT ** When the key is turned, all I can hear is the clicking from the starter relay, no turn over at all. I've also not checked the Park/Neutral position sensor. It is possible that got messed up, but not entirely sure. It was in neutral for the longest time, and was only recently put into Park to start/test. Have tried to start it in each gear, nothing happened. Ask questions, suggest things, give me ideas... I'm active and would love to get this thing going and put another 250k on it... |
Describe exactly what "no start" means. When you turn the key...nothing? A click? Cranking but no firing?
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Originally Posted by 83
(Post 52463382)
Describe exactly what "no start" means. When you turn the key...nothing? A click? Cranking but no firing?
When key is turned, all that is heard is a click from the starter relay, no crank, nothing else, just a click. |
First thing I'd try, regardless of how things look, is to clean the battery cable terminals really well. Get the cleaning spray from an auto parts store.
That may not do it, but it's the most simple thing to start with, and my truck died on me once while driving and wouldn't start again, and all it was, was dirty terminals. |
First, make sure of the ground on the engine block, usually connected to the AC Compressor mount, is in good shape. Clean, bare metal. No oil, no corrosion, no dirt, etc. Both the wire, nd where it attaches. Check it at the battery as well. Then ohm it out. It should be less than 1 ohm. Preferably, a lot less.
the trick you heard about is a way to verify the starter and solenoid. You make a 10 gauge wire, or even 8 ga, wire, with a female spade terminal on one end. Make it long enough to reach from the battery to the starter, with some slack in it. Unplug the wire that goes to the solenoid from the starter relay. I think it's terminal c, but I may be wrong on that. There's only two wires going to the starter. The heavy cable direct from the battery to the terminal that looks like a bolt on the side of the starter, with a rubber boot on the wire to protect it, and the smaller wire from the starter relay to a spade terminal. Unplug the one on the spade terminal, and leave the other on. Make sure the heavy cable's connection is clean and tight. Make absolutely certain the tranny and transfer case are both in Neutral, block the tires, and set the parking brake. Make sure there's nothing and no ONE in front of, or behind, the truck. Stand beside the truck, NOT in front of it, and plug your test wire onto the spade terminal on the starter. Stay clear of the front wheel, and touch your test wire to the battery positive. Don't hold it there for much longer than 1 second. Less if possible. When you touch your wire to the battery, it should, all things being equal, turn the starter over, as though the key were turned to START. This tells you that the solenoid, and starter, are both good, that your problem if before that. Obviously, if the starter does NOT spin the engine, the starter or solenoid is bad. Usually the solenoid. Often the brushes are the problem. There are rebuild kits available for cheap out there for the solenoid. If it's not the solenoid, then the starter is bad. You can rebuild it yourself, or get a rebuild OEM one from a number of sources. NOW you can check the starter relay, the wiring between the key and the starter relay, the key switch in the column, and the wiring to the battery. Any of those are a possibility. Does that help at all? Pat☺ |
Originally Posted by 83
(Post 52463393)
First thing I'd try, regardless of how things look, is to clean the battery cable terminals really well. Get the cleaning spray from an auto parts store.
That may not do it, but it's the most simple thing to start with, and my truck died on me once while driving and wouldn't start again, and all it was, was dirty terminals. A couple things that have helped me a lot, too: First, use a gel-cell type battery. The Optima type of thing. They don't out-gas acid like regular, wet cell batteries do, so their terminals don't have as bad a corrosion problem. They also don't damage the wires attached to the terminal the way a regular battery will. AND you don't need to worry near as much about having to clean them up, or checking the water level in the battery. No water to check, no worry about adding water, or anything like that. I also use Marine terminals. The ones with the screw post sticking up. The only mod they require are putting ring terminals on the wires that attach to them. Makes pulling the wires off MUCH easier. Unscrew the wing nut holding the cables on, and they just slide up and off. Before the ring terminal, though, slide a piece of meltwall heatshrink up onto the wire, and once you've got the ring terminal crimped on, you can seal the wire up, to protect the copper conductors very well. All that's just me, though. Pat☺ |
Originally Posted by 2ToyGuy
(Post 52463394)
First, make sure of the ground on the engine block, usually connected to the AC Compressor mount, is in good shape. Clean, bare metal. No oil, no corrosion, no dirt, etc. Both the wire, nd where it attaches. Check it at the battery as well. Then ohm it out. It should be less than 1 ohm. Preferably, a lot less.
the trick you heard about is a way to verify the starter and solenoid. You make a 10 gauge wire, or even 8 ga, wire, with a female spade terminal on one end. Make it long enough to reach from the battery to the starter, with some slack in it. Unplug the wire that goes to the solenoid from the starter relay. I think it's terminal c, but I may be wrong on that. There's only two wires going to the starter. The heavy cable direct from the battery to the terminal that looks like a bolt on the side of the starter, with a rubber boot on the wire to protect it, and the smaller wire from the starter relay to a spade terminal. Unplug the one on the spade terminal, and leave the other on. Make sure the heavy cable's connection is clean and tight. Make absolutely certain the tranny and transfer case are both in Neutral, block the tires, and set the parking brake. Make sure there's nothing and no ONE in front of, or behind, the truck. Stand beside the truck, NOT in front of it, and plug your test wire onto the spade terminal on the starter. Stay clear of the front wheel, and touch your test wire to the battery positive. Don't hold it there for much longer than 1 second. Less if possible. When you touch your wire to the battery, it should, all things being equal, turn the starter over, as though the key were turned to START. This tells you that the solenoid, and starter, are both good, that your problem if before that. Obviously, if the starter does NOT spin the engine, the starter or solenoid is bad. Usually the solenoid. Often the brushes are the problem. There are rebuild kits available for cheap out there for the solenoid. If it's not the solenoid, then the starter is bad. You can rebuild it yourself, or get a rebuild OEM one from a number of sources. NOW you can check the starter relay, the wiring between the key and the starter relay, the key switch in the column, and the wiring to the battery. Any of those are a possibility. Does that help at all? Pat☺ the female spade idea, could be something I can do. It is a new starter, and have already taken it off and had it tested (again) for a sanity check, all good seemingly there... i'm going to have to do another exciter wire test and ensure I'm not missing something... will update if/when the solution is found. |
Did you clean the terminals? I mean I know it's not sexy or anything, but before spending hours with a multimeter, or money on parts, why not start simple? The truck sat for years. Sure, sitting can cause issues. More often fuel and oil gasket issues. Or a mouse may have chewed a wire, etc. Which visual checks or multimeter checks would identify. But more likely than not, things corroded.
What I would check first is environmental damage. Not the kind of damage that comes from use. The kind that comes from sitting in a (where do you live) humid? salty? or otherwise corrosive environment, or rodent plagued environment. So yeah, wire connections that may have built up corrosion, or chewed wires. |
If they're done right, all the grounds DO tie together at the battery. Electrically.
Like the engine block ground goes straight to the battery negative terminal. The rest use the metal of the body for a conductor to the battery negative terminal, through the wire from battery negative terminal-to-body ground connection. Usually goes from the battery negative forward to a bolt just forward of the battery pan, just behind the headlight. The head ground goes to the body right behind the head, from the lifting hook on the driver's side of the head, then directly to the battery negative through the body metal. The alternator ground goes up to the PS Pump mount, which is bolted to the head, then to the body metal through the head's ground wire, etc. Remember, with electrics, you don't have to directly connect a wire from here to there, to get a good connection. Especially grounds. A short wire to the body's metal is just as good, if in good shape, as a direct wire. And definitely clean the battery terminals. Regular lead-acid batteries corrode easily and quickly, especially when just sitting, and not getting inspected or cleaned regularly, as they would when in use. I hope, anyway :) Make certain any wires that connect to the terminals aren't corroded, too. If the terminal has corrosion, chances are it's gotten under the wire where it connects to the terminal, or even into the wire, destroying the metal. Again, once the battery terminals are nice and clean, make certain of the wires connected to them. A quick ohm check is easy to do. And, as I said, critters just love the air induction system to build nests in. It just the right shape and size for their nests. Something to check on. Good luck, and keep us up to date! Pat☺ |
Originally Posted by 2ToyGuy
(Post 52463448)
And that's why I carry a battery terminal cleaner in the glove box.
A couple things that have helped me a lot, too: First, use a gel-cell type battery. The Optima type of thing. They don't out-gas acid like regular, wet cell batteries do, so their terminals don't have as bad a corrosion problem. They also don't damage the wires attached to the terminal the way a regular battery will. AND you don't need to worry near as much about having to clean them up, or checking the water level in the battery. No water to check, no worry about adding water, or anything like that. I also use Marine terminals. The ones with the screw post sticking up. The only mod they require are putting ring terminals on the wires that attach to them. Makes pulling the wires off MUCH easier. Unscrew the wing nut holding the cables on, and they just slide up and off. Before the ring terminal, though, slide a piece of meltwall heatshrink up onto the wire, and once you've got the ring terminal crimped on, you can seal the wire up, to protect the copper conductors very well. All that's just me, though. Pat☺ so Im at a point where Im confused about why the 0.11 and about ready to pull the wiring harness off and inspect it thoroughly for cracked or broken wires. also, my AM1 and AM2 fuses are corroded... headed to AAP to replace and pray... https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...d779afc3a.jpeg |
Remember, those (AM1&AM2) are bolted in from underneath. The fuse block comes in half, so you can get to them. You unbolt a couple of bolts, and release a catch to get it apart. The top half just lifts right up. Easier than it appears at first.
Good luck to ya! Keep us up to date on how things are going. Pat☺ |
The solenoid click is common after 20 years, and sitting doesn't help. Try to keep the denso starter and just replace the contacts and plunger as described below. Don't buy a rebuild starter if you can avoid it, unless its Denso. This kit is for Auto trans, standard trans use a different plunger.
https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...sy-repair.html |
I'm at a loss... At this point, I'm going to have to get a mechanic and pay someone because I'm at my wits end...
Thanks to all of you who contributed, I'm just at a point where I'm beyond my skillset and comfort level... I'm ashamed to say it, but I don't know what else to do... Have a wonderful weekend and may God bless each and every one of you. |
Well definitely let us know how it goes. I'm really curious to hear.
I know the feeling. I've thrown up my hands at plenty of projects. Just know that it's only beyond your current skill set, and the way to build the skills is to dig deeper into the project. But that requires time and effort that not everyone wants to commit. I've mostly been a "tell me what's wrong and I'll fix it" kind of mechanic, not the type who can diagnose problems on my own, so I understand. |
Might be faulty ignition switch. My starter done that for years and i always thought bad starter as it only happens occasionally, I kept a bar behind seat for hitting starter and that would get truck to start. so I put a starter switch in cab a month ago...no more issue.
Power from battery to push button switch and then a wire to starter. 10 minutes,,,i as well not much on electronic diagnosing...which is why i likely have a couple good starters in my collection. https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...9847f5714.jpeg Push button start,, |
Just to follow up on this, as I should have a few weeks ago, it turned out that the fix for this was the Park/Neutral Safety Switch. Once replaced, this old beast started running... Problems were had afterwards, go look at my new post, about 1998 3.4L SR5 4WD - Fuel/Starting issues
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Good luck I took mine to two Toyota dealerships and 3 mechanics. 4 starters, New batteries, terminals, computer checked not the ignition switch, ha it's an insult because i have a word document that states what has been done that I give to anyone working on it- The so called mechanic from Toyota puts in a new battery calls me and said just come to the shop he fixed it ha ha ha ha. Another new battery- Thanks you are soooo smart. Now take that 300 battery you just put in. Replace it with my 6 month old battery I just installed and VOLLA it starts. Imagine that. It's INTERMITTENT and you can also take the labor cost off as well. 4 years later thousands of dollars- I give up
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