which rotors/brake setup
 

I need to buy new rotors for the front...which setup is the best/best for the money(i dont want to spend a lot b/c i have a lot of other maint. to do). I have 195k on my 96 4runner.

best for the $$$ would probably be Flat brembos w/ PF pads.
I might spring for the Tundra setup. Granted I ONLY skimmed that thread, the brakes suck even on a stock 4r. I would like some better braking. I have the Brembos and they work well. But with the s/c and my heavy right foot, I am thinking about an upgrade. :rockon:

I had the stock rotors warp without significant hard drving which made me switch to Brembos. Brakes better and no warping (yet!)

I've been through 2 sets of rotors in the last year, and I need them again now (along with pads). The first time I went OEM (lasted about 7 months), then I figured I'd "cheap out" and just go wth NAPA (about 3 months). This time it'll be Brembo slotted, I can't take it anymore! :) I haven't decided what to do about pads.

the only thing is i dont think i need slotted rotors, or do I. I dont drive that fast, its just that im always braking in traffic(NoVa traffic sucks). im sick of the vibrating steering wheel as i brake.

Stop & Go traffic can be hard on them as well. Rotors heat up with any friction, and traffic generates a lot without a cooling period in-between.

It's very similar to a lot of trail downhills where you're riding the brakes. That'll heat 'em up pretty fast, and then holding the brake at the bottom of the hill (or in stopped in traffic) will allow the rotor to cool with pressure on one side - which is how they warp.

There's an argument to be made for $65/pair rotors from NAPA though - basically the argument is that they're just as cheap when you replace them. :)

Brembo blanks are $110/pair from here. That's just $50 more than the cheap NAPA's. Add $65/pair for slots or holes, or $85/pair for both. And for another $30 you can get them in color. :)

Im debating if i should get brembo blanks or get brembo drill and slotted.

Like I kinda' said above, I'd always been a "cheap rotors" kindof guy. Well, no more. My first set of slotted Bembo's (from Performance Rotors) are due to show up on Friday.

I went slotted 'cause of a lot of reading that I've done here and around the 'net. I've gathered that a) slotted do cool better than blanks; b) drilled can be good, but just as often if the holes are drilled "wrong" then they can be REAL bad (i.e., the rotors will shatter); c) the combination takes out a lot of material, which will tend to weaken the overall rotor.


If UPS times it right, then I'll be able to get them on before I leave for a weekend trip on Friday afternoon. If so, then I'll have words to share about their performance Sunday night/Monday.

let us know how it goes.


Theres an auction on ebay for brembo slotted and drilled rotors for $125.

Bummer - I only saw 'em drilled when I looked. click

UPS showed up right on time (11:13!). I had the old ones off and I was standing there waiting for him The new ones are on and I'm off on a trip!

I'll put on over 400 miles on these over the weekend so that should make for a good showing of what they're like.

More when I get back!

And... I'm back!

520 miles in a couple of days through city driving, highway, sand and rain. The Brembo's were awesome. They seemed to stay very cool (compared to stock) and there was no sign of fade even after many hard stops and "holds" up on sand dunes, 100mph->75mph braking (highway), rain rain and rain....

Highly recommended! We'll see how these hold up in long term, but as benchmark of sorts, the last set of rotors (NAPA over-the-counter at $64/pair) lasted about 3 months of normal driving and a couple of "easy" trail rides before they warped. I'd say that's about 1500 miles worth.

niceeee. im getting just the flat rotors with PF pads.

My local mechanic swears by OEM pads. I suggest Brembo flat rotors w/ OEM pads. His reason is squeek. He says he never has a problem w/ them. FYI.

Either way you will be making a :great: improvement

Heres a link to the $125 ones.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...spagename=WDVW

Just ordered the slotted Brembo's from Performance Rotors. Not sure which pads I'll get yet, though...

I thought I'd update this one more time...

I've now put about 1500 miles on these rotors & pads, and they're staying just as perfect as day one. This is a new "record" for me in terms of the braking action not changing in this kind of timeframe.

The mileage includes a couple of trail rides, a roundtrip up and over the Naches pass (5000' of elevation change with twisty roads on one side), a lot of rain/mud/sand, and a few hard stops.

"I believe in the Brembo legend". :)

I have the brembo flat "oem" rotors with PF pads. They feel nice and no noise or shaking, but the pads are ALREADY gone after just 8k miles. I am going OEM for pads.

this is the same combo im about to put on my 85 4x2...... stuff is in the garage.... waiting on my balljoint spacers band rear drums then having a wrenchfest on my truck....

I have the brembo slotted/cross drilled and I love them. You can't go wrong that route...

I got them from.. www.raceconcepts.net

if you do much wheelin' in mud, i would steer clear of slotted or drilled rotors...the slots/holes can get packed full of mud (and whatever is suspended in the mud)...which screws up the pads and rotors and defeats any enhanced cooling characteristics.

Let's go back to this topic. What do you guys recommend for the best rotors on a 3rd Gen. ? I am looking for the best rotors with the best stopping power ? thank you for your input

I'm happy with the Slotted Brembo's so far. Only been on a week tho. I went with the OEM organic pads.

My stockers were way warped... last night I took apart the drums and found the left self adjuster was seized. Lubed it up and adjusted the rears. Just make sure you check that if your discs were warped like mine.

I persoanlly avoid cross drilled since after a year or somost of them develop cracks and the pluses of both slotted and cross drilled just aren't worth it on non-track vehicle ,i.e. race car. I'd do just slotted since they have far less problems.

My statement hasn't changed from previous page... I'm LOVING the slotted Brembos and semi-metallic pads. Lotso braking power and NO sign of warping even after a couple of interesting off-road runs and a lot of high speed highway driving.

I've been running the Brembo slotted/Cross drill rotors for nearly a year now with no problems whatsoever...TRD pads instead of the PF which are the same pads... :P

Well, it's about time my OEM rotors are wraped. My mechanic said dont even bother trying to turn the existing ones because they'll just be wraped in no time. He said to just get like a Brembo rotors...something solid.
I'm about to put i Ceremic pads from Raybestos with Brembo rotors.....any inputs? how are the ceremice pads compared to semi-metallic, OEM etc. ??

should i get my rotors from tire rack http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/brake...tor&perfCode=P

or from IRP http://www.importrp.com/product.php?...5&cat=0&page=1

The only reason i ask this question is b/c i know there are a lot of fake companies out there and i dont want to deal with the bs. Thanks

Stock rotors and trd pads.20,000 miles.I tow trailers a boat and drive thru city to get to work.You guys must race to the red lights and slam on the brakes to go thru rotors in six months.You cant blame the truck. Take it easy it will still be there.

I bought my Brembo's at the Tirerack.com and they were here the next day (well, they are not that far from me, but they did ship the same day I ordered...). And I went with the OE pad. I have never heard anything bad about the TireRack. Don't know anything about IRP.

hupptoy

This is what i did with my 98. Haven't had a problem with them in 1 1/2 years. Went through 2 sets of cheapie rotors and pads before i found this forum and found out about Brembos. Decided to run with the OEM pads, and haven't looked back.

I was considering the Tundra upgrade, but I stopped to think about the fact that I drove (and towed) for 8 years with my heavier and larger tire'd 1994 Toyota V6 pickup and never once had a problem with the rotors warping. My 00 4Runner has larger rotors (a 15" wheel won't fit), it weighs less and I don't tow with it, yet in one year of ownership I have reoccurring brake warping problems. It must come down to quality of materials; what did Toyota do differently between my '94 pickup and this '00?

Sounds like the Brembo rotors and OEM pads are the way to go.

go w the tundra setup. you have to buy rotors and pads anyway. you might as well spend another $180 and get something that works better and won't warp. do it right the first time... :D

I agree. I honestly can't see any reason to upgrade the brakes with overpriced parts and big brake kits. This isn't a race car or a tow rig. You guys are seriously wasting money here. I gurantee you'd get the same braking performance in your 125K+ mile truck as some of these guys blowing money on this Tundra "upgrade" by just replacing the rotors, pads, possibly master cylinder and flushing the fluid. Rear disc upgrades are the exception; you can't go wrong doing that.

If anyone can tell me how a Brembo rotor is ANY different than an off the shelf Autozone rotor, please elaborate. They are one in the same, and if you're crazy enough to buy drilled or slotted rotors, then your just asking for decreased performance (less surface area=less pad contact) and poor reliability. They don't "de-gas" or help cool the rotor in any way.

Warped rotors are also a myth. It's ultra easy to melt stock organic/metallic pads, but you won't be changing the shape of the disc. Glazed rotors = "warped" rotors. I tracked an Acura Integra numerous times with, admittedly, upgrade brakes. I NEVER once "warped" a rotor, even after running 4 different pad compounds, sometimes several at one event, from full metallics that didn't work under 300* to ones that were less aggressive than OEM. Same rotors for 3 years, periodic maintenance, performance better than day one.

Stoptech Brake Article

I just want to present another side to this story so people don't go running out to buy these overpriced rotors and caliper upgrades. You'll get the same performance out of very basic maintenance. Flusing the brake fluid, which I haven't seen mentioned, is likely to be one of the key components to the shortcomings of a stock system. Valvoline SynPower, ATE Type200, Wilwood Dot 3 and Motul 600 are all great replacement fluids, some more exotic than others.

yup... i'm an idiot. i'm just stupid and don't know chit about anything cause i wasted my money on a tundra "upgrade". :roll: :D

sorry, but i respectfully disagree...

i got brembo blank rotors for right at $100 shipped (cheaper than OEM and not all THAT much more than the cheap ones at autozone). i got OEM tundra pads for $60 (same price as 4runner pads). i got the new front calipers for $~90 each. the only "extra" money i spent was on the calipers, and to get thicker rotors & pads w/ more surface area (about 20% more area), it was worth every penny.

i now have some SERIOUS stopping power w/ the HEAVY 305 MT/R's on there. you guys also don't have all that extra rotational weight to deal with. we (the one's w/ lifts and 33+ inch tires) do. i now have braking ability that's BETTER than a stock runner on stock size street tires. seriously...

one more thing... here's some pics that prove that the tundra rotors are not only thicker than the stock runner rotors (therefore lasting LONGER than the stock rotors from wear, more material for a larger heat sink, and stronger so there's less chance of warpage - and yes, the stock rotors do actually WARP - not just glaze), but the pads also have thicker material when new and also have more contact area than the stock runner pads...

http://4rnr.net/brakes/p5240405.jpg

http://4rnr.net/brakes/p5240406.jpg

http://4rnr.net/brakes/p5240408.jpg

This is the statement that you have no evidence in which to back, and that's what I was skeptical of initially. Do you have any 40-0 or 60-0 stopping distance times? How about comparisons against a stock system that was completely overhauled (new rotors, pads, fluid). I'll bet you'd have more consistent 60-0 times given the fact that the Tundra set up has more heat capacity, but your stopping distance would more than likely be within 5-10ft. +/- of stock. That begs the question, when was the last time you thoroughly serviced the brakes? They may have been in such poor shape (stuck caliper slides, pitted/stuck piston, damaged rotor) that a true comparison would be impossible.

That, and you have an advantage of an incredibly wide contact patch with 305s. Tires are what ultimately stop the vehicle, and with rubber that is nearly 2" wider than stock, that also isn't fair, regardless of weight or diameter.

Never said you were an idiot, just wanted you to quantify your statements about this larger brake setup. I think that setup is great if you tow, race or carry a lot of gear through mountainous terrain, but it's certainly not the only or total solution to brake problems.

Andy,
Can you tell me where you ended up paying the prices stated below? I'm about to pull the trigger on the tundra upgrade and based on some of the other threads you were running, I couldn't follow exactly where you ended up purchasing everything.

Thanks!
E

"i got brembo blank rotors for right at $100 shipped (cheaper than OEM and not all THAT much more than the cheap ones at autozone). i got OEM tundra pads for $60 (same price as 4runner pads). i got the new front calipers for $~90 each. the only "extra" money i spent was on the calipers, and to get thicker rotors & pads w/ more surface area (about 20% more area), it was worth every penny."

brembo's were from http://www.tirerack.com
pads were from my local dealer
calipers were from advance auto

__________________________________________________ _______________

i bought my runner w/84k on the clock. i drove it for a while before it needed brakes. i didn't swap the rotors out then, but i should have. i did flush the brake system - completely. now it has 152k and the brakes have been completely flushed 3 times now since i've had it.

however, this is also the 3rd runner that i've owned - all 3 were/are 99's.

the first was a 2wd 99 limited. brakes were perfect. they were put on by the dealer about 4k before i bought it and i had the receipts. it stopped OK, but it was also on 265/70's. however, it still took some effort to stop in emergency situations.

the 2nd one was a black 4WD limited. the only reason i didn't keep that one was because it didn't have a sunroof. it had the stock brakes, and about 62k miles on it when i got it. i bought it to resell. the braking performance was exactly like the 2wd limited. it was fine for everyday stuff, but in an emergency, it too a lot of pedal pressure to get some real stopping force.

the runner i have today is number 3. it's been the same as the other two until the tundra upgrade. now my brakes are not only more powerful - stops the HEAVY runner w/ big tires VERY quickly w/ very little effort, but it's also much more sensitive at the pedal.

i haven't measured the stopping distances and i don't plan to. i know there's a huge difference in braking performance over new stock stuff and stock stuff w quite a few miles on it. how do i know? my seat-o-the-pants meter. it's worked for me quite well before, and it's working quite well in this situation as well.

i agree that most don't need larger brakes, but the stock ones are notorious for warping/glazing and being very weak. if you are going to replace pads and rotors anyway, why not spend less than $200 more and have an upgrade in stopping power and a better feel at the pedal? besides, i had 152k on my calipers - it was only a matter of time before i began to have small issues with them...

I'm not sure where you are getting this info, but you are dead wrong on several points.

1) warped rotors have been an issue with all of the larger Toyota trucks (4Runner, Sequoia, Tacoma and Tundra) because they didn't size them large enough for the heat load encountered during service. This problem was so bad in the Tundras, they actaully had to put out a TSB to change all the calipers/pads/rotors because they were warping at extremely low mileage under normal useage.

2) All rotors are not even close to being the same quality. There are many factors that go into making a quality rotor (such as materials, tolerances, material treatments, etc). That being said, Brembo has a history of outlasting many of these local auto parts store generic rotors before warping. That doesn't mean that you can't get a good quality generic rotor, it just means that unless you know who manufactured them, it is a shot in the dark to find quality set (keep in mind some auto chain brands may even have several companies making them so even if you find a "good" generic rotor that may not guarantee the next set will be good too.....low cost is king at the chain stores).

3) If you think warped rotors are a myth, I won't even bother wasting time on an answer for that one besides saying I personally have had my OEM rotors warp twice already (nor am I alone on this). Relating your experience with truck brakes to a car shows this lack of understanding quite clearly.

4) Not sure what you mean by overpriced upgrades either. The Tundra brake upgrade is nearly the same cost as replacing the stock system with the same parts again except you get an increase in system durability. There is no "big brake kit" per se at all that people are using.

5) There is most definately an increase in braking capacity both in stopping and the ability for the system to resist heat buildup (which leads to the warping issue seen by many). I am sure we can get a few engineers on the board (including Bamachem and myself) do do out the math for you to back up this statement. Hopefully common sense would prevail and save us from having to prove this mathematically.

OK, I still don't see the relevance of this brake mod. From what I've read, the service bulletin spec'd a different caliper and pad to fix the problem the much larger Seqouia and Tundra were having. Just so we know, here are some very basic, baseline weights of all these vehicles:

4Runner: ~3800 lbs.
Tundra Ext. Cab: ~4500 lbs.
Seqouia: ~5300 lbs.

The Tundra and Sequoia are much heavier, have much more power and could tow much more than a 4Runner. Do they need more substantial brakes? Yes.

Now, given that all these vehicles rolled off the production line with basically the same brake systems (~12.5" rotor, similar iron 4pot calipers, etc.), then of course you'll have brake problems in a vehicle that weighs up to 2500 lbs. than the 4Runner. And given that Toyota was responsible enough to issue a TSB for a brake issue that any other manufacturer would write off as owner misuse or normal wear and tear, it seems that a slightly larger caliper and pad have rectified the problem.

Furthermore, given Toyota's reputation for quality, especially in the brake department, it seems they are very capable of matching brakes to car weight and application. I can think of the many Toyotas with great brakes, the Celica GT and GT-Four, Altezza, MRS/"new" Celica GTS and various models of the Supra. The only car that has a real brake system issue was the early Mk. I MR2s and obviously the mega SUV and Tundra. If there was a problem among the majority of 4Runners with the brakes, it would have been addressed years ago. But I suppose you'd stick the bigger tire argument here...

As far as rotors go, I'll concede that there are a few ultra-low end bi-metal rotors out there, but the vast majority of quality rotors are basic cast iron. I don't understand how you think Brembo rotors are built to better tolerances than an Autozone rotor (have you had a rotor that didn't fit?), but I assure you there is no measurable difference in composition or design. How hard is it to copy an OEM rotor and market them for mass production. If the companies that were making these "inferior" rotors sucked so bad, why are they still in business? Most are rebadged and less expensive Brembo rotors to begin with. Bottomline- Brembo rotors aren't the golden goose you make them out to be. The drilled rotors aren't cast that way, the slots aren't chamfered for a certain reason. If the extra expense makes you feel better, fine, but many others have already realized that a $35 auto-parts store plain rotor works just as well.

As far as the "warping" issue, I will also admit there is a way to warp these rotors, and it has NOTHING to do with using the brakes. Improper torque on the lugs with these trucks has got to be the culprit. I have never seen such an odd combo of lug centric and hub centric properties on the same wheel. Would it not be plausible to say that a rotor could be skewed by torquing the lugs on one side to 85 lbs. and the other to 65 lbs.? Given that the lug contacts the rotor directly, this is very likely. If you ever take you're vehicle in for repair, keep in mind that most of the time, they just zap the lugs (an every other bolt) on with an impact gun, sometimes with a torque stick if you're lucky. I gurantee this wide spread "warped" rotor issue stems more from the combonation of Toyota's wheel attachment design and improper torquing of the lugs.

Futhermore, as most people with this Tundra brake mod have upgraded to aftermarket wheels requiring a hub centric ring (and not lugcentric lugs), that would alleviate most of the warping issue, resulting in an inaccurate remedy. Just something to consider...

I cannot find the piston sizes of any of the calipers in question, so claims of increased clamping pressure are null unless you have:

-bigger pistons in the calipers AND a bigger master cylinder
-smaller pistons in the calipers AND the stock master cylinder

You can't just magically increase the brake pressure at the caliper with larger diameter caliper pistons. That would lower, seeing as how more volume to fill and the same pressure equate to less force. I will agree that the new Tundra caliper is undoubtedly more robust and capable, but piston size is the ultimate factor in brake pressure, not arbitrary pad sizes (which would help a bit).

As far as cost, ~$200 is quite a bit of expense just to run a thicker rotor and bigger pad. I don't understand why this is thought as the ultimate solution to this problem, but I suppose that because it's the new thing to do, it must be the greatest.

I would be happy to put my revamped stock system up against this upgraded system w/OEM wheels ANY TIME. Not only will the braking distances be the same +/- 5-10ft., but so will the repeatability with both setups.

Most aftermarket brake kits (Brembo included) for powerful sports cars have rotors about the same size as the 4Runner. F1 cars from the 1980's used iron rotors and off-the-shelf Brembo Indy calipers that fit under 13" and 14" wheels. Semi's still use drums at every axle. Motorcycles use rotors as thin as a cracker. You don't need much to stop a car, you need a lot more to make it fast. A 1990-1999 300ZXTT weighed almost as much as a 4Runner (3600 lbs.), had far more power and came with smaller diameter (11") and thinner rotors (~.8") than the 4Runner did.


I still don't understand why you guys think we need upgraded brakes on this truck. Simple maintenance and common sense could go a long way to getting tons of miles out of stock parts. We don't drive race cars, and unless you tow a boat every weekend, then I don't see any plausible reaon for the Tundra upgrade.

Good Big Brake Comparison Article