Help a Newb with his 22RE ... Replace the Head Gasket or Get A Rebuilt Engine???
 

I think this is posted in the right place... and I did do some searching but didn't find an answer to my specific issue.

I just got a 1988 4Runner, 22RE, 5speed. It is pretty clean and the PO told me it just needs a head gasket. Now I don't believe everything I'm told, but even if I have to replace the engine I think I got a good deal on clean Toy.

The engine cranks and almost catches, but does not run. The PO said he hadn't driven it due to the head gasket in 6 months, and that he stopped driving it as soon as he realized it needed a head gasket. Tags are 1 year old, so I suspect it hasn't been touched in a year and the gas is bad.

I tested compression today and the front cylinder is good at 165. The next one is 25, and the one after that 19. The final cylinder reads 99... but the spark plug threads are stripped on it.

Plugs looks nasty with gunk build-up. There was another set of plugs in the truck--one in the engine and one in the truck looked to have both been in the last cylinder with damaged threads at the bottom.

To me it seems the engine has been somewhat abused and maybe I should consider just putting in a completely rebuilt 22RE. Or should I continue to pursue having the head gone through and just installing it with a new head gasket?

I would appreciate any ideas on the subject and any suggestions one what else to look for on the engine. My next thought was to drain the oil and pull the pan.

Thanks everyone!

Yes it's posted in the right spot...

Get an FSM... Factory Service Manual... And perform all the steps it says to.

Remove head... Take to machine shop and tell them to do the works. Clean, plain, magnaflux and replace guides. I've done several in the past and it's @ $100.

Get the best Head Gasket and timing chain kit money can buy, re-install in reverse order:D

I'd put steel 20R guides in it myself. B/c as you'll notice, the factory ones are plastic.


FSM... FSM... FSM... get the FSM... All the answers you could ever want on your truck are in there.

As far as replacing the block... Anything @ 175k miles and down, I wouldnt...

EFI's are real good on engines. Carbs are another story.

Once the head is off you can also inspect the cylinder walls for cross hatch marks. Any are good. Mirror polish is bad.

Technically you can drop the pistons and "glaze break" the walls and just drop in new rings.

Once the rod bearings are off you can pretty much tell what the rest look like and if you want to replace them or not.

A factory AISIN or timing cover from Ted at ENGNBLDR is a good idea to.

Any grooves in it mean oil can get by and that's less oil pressure on the system...

Here is a picture of my plugs, they are laid out in order left is the front and right is the back of the engine. The threads on the rear one look jacked up to me.

when the heads at the machine shop, ask them to trace the threads...

They should tell you if anythings not usable from that point...

Thanks for the reply! My 4Runner has 172K miles and I was told the engine has already been replaced--that seemed odd to me, but everything was clean enough to justify what I was told.

I downloaded what I think is a FSM from a post I found here--everything says Toyota, no Haynes or Chiltons on sight.

Ah... now that I look closer at it, yup, this is the real deal. The Head stuff starts on page EM-12.

Just a word of caution on using the old head with high mileage.

I just finished my SECOND cylinder head swap in one month after using the factory head over again on my truck for a head gasket replacement.

I had my 156K mile head machined and pressure tested and it was given a clean bill of health. After re assembling the truck I found that I had serious cooling system issues with compression getting into the cooling system and pushing all my coolant out the reservoir. I bought a new casting with a cam installed ready to bolt on for $300.00 and I just finished swapping the head again this weekend. The truck is fixed now and I expect another 50k-100k miles before I do a low end rebuild.

The point is my original cylinder head was my problem as I found trace amounts of coolant in the intake passages on the number 2 and 3 cylinders as well as the combustin chamber itself.

Now, I will always get a new head when doing a head gasket because of how weak the old aluminum is. Every technician and engine manufacture told me the same thing and I chose not to listen in order to save a few bucks the fist time around. It's not worth the hassle, I promise you'll be better off buying a new casting if your short block is salvageable.

Thanks Carguy. Right now I am leaning toward a remanufactured engine. I found a place in town that charges $600 and you get a 2 year warranty. I am just not good enough with engine internals to go beyond replacing a head gasket. There are too many unknowns with my engine.

I have been looking for anything negative about autospecengines.com, but I can only find good things. Everyone seems to love the place so I am going to check them out this week.

Today I went to my most trusted alignment/brake place--Network Alignment. I completely trust this place and anyone who needs brakes or alignment should too. I honestly don't know of another company I woul say that about.

Anyway, they hooked me up with a local builder, thwe builder Scott from Network uses for his stuff. The builder was cool and honest telling me machining of import stuff is expensive and he gets rmanufactured engines from Jordan in Indiana... anyone ever heard of them. I will have more details tomarrow.

Right now I Autospec and this guy are at the top of my list.

Just spent a some time pulling the top of the engine apart. Two things I noticed were nasty white stuff and rusty film in the two center exhaust ports--I assume water got into this area throught he head gasket.

The other thing was a lot of oil in the intake manufold, mostly on the front two ports, less in the 3rd and none in the rear port. Does this just sound like oil from the head gasket leak as well? Or does oil in the intake mean somthing else, like bad rings?

Well, I pulled off the head. It went pretty well and was easy except for those few hoses that kept hanging up as I pull it out--but I always have that problem!

To me the bottom end looks trashed. Black, rusty, dirty... but maybe that is what a block with a blown head gasket looks like? The real deal killer for me is that the cylinder walls look polished smooth.

Check out the pics and let me know what you think.

something looks real funky between #3 and #4....looks irregular between those 2. take off the gasket and see what you've got as far as cylinder walls.

no , i don't know what oil in the intake would be....PCV? don't know, I thought I remembered somebody mention that once. I bet that head is toasted. that gasket looks like hell how it's all ripped up on the sides.

BTW...#3 looks like it was washed from a blown gasket .....shiny top as compared to the others.....i fact #1 is the only one that looks right to me.

Thanks for the input... the head gasket just lifted off in one piece. I stuck a little, but not much.

I think it is odd how the edge of the gasket is smashed at the third cylinder.

Yup, I think the head is trashed. there were a few 1/2-inch bolts in it, so somebody just used bigger bolts in stripped thread holes for the intake and EGR.

Oh, and there was a washer on the back, driver's side head bolt--WTF???


Here is what I think overall... The engine was damaged 100K miles ago or so (172K on it now). The PO did some work or had it done. Instead of installing a re-built engine as he said, some half-assed repairs were done. Around a year ago (tags are from January 2009) the truck overheated and had a critical failure and was parked in its own juices for the duration. I think the head gasket was blown due to overheating that was bad enough that it warped the head, lifting it in the center and exposing the two cylinders in the middle to radiator fluid.

It's okay, I am all for a new remanufactured engine with a warranty!

Ok, clean everything up within an inch of its life, and inspect the cyl walls...

If they're smooth and mirror polished you just learned why I always remove an engine...

And take your chain and make a forget it...

Do it like this. So if the tab is broke on the bottom of your timing cover the chain can't and won't skip a tooth...

http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/t.../PicS002-1.jpg

So you pinched up the chain by two links so the gear holds the chain up tight--it can't slide down the guides any more at that point--correct?

I maye have already screwed that up. I marked the chain at the dot on the gear and Zip-tied the chain to the gear.

But it probably doesn't matter... I think the cylinder walls are pretty shiny. You can see the piston in the cylinder wall in the pics above.

Here is a close up of a cylinder. Notice the water in the piston? It has a direct reflection from the flash, and you can see the same thing mirrored in the cylinder.

i could be terribly wrong....but, when I was fighting with myself overe and over about if i really wanted to put the timing cover on for good before the head (which is what the FSM calls for) I was totally nervous that I was going to dangle the chain enough to miss a tooth, I messed with it enough times to realize that as long as I kept the passenger's side taut that the looseness of the driver's side would always take up the slack on the mark (in other words, I put the cover back on assuring myself several times that I could properly take up the slack of the driver's side without fearing i skipped a tooth) and the I zip tied in 2 places and put a head bolt wedged and zip tied so that the chain would sit as high as it could so I could ass the head over it.

http://i670.photobucket.com/albums/v...icture1028.jpg

copy that... now when I slip the head over it, I'll just walk the chain down as I roll the cam gear up and no tension will be lost...

Then I take a pry bar (pulley is on at this point) and gently pry the cam gear up as I wiggle the crank back and fourth... I actually did it like that for some time before knowing that's how it's done per FSM...

You can put a tie on it if you like if it makes you feel better... No law against that...

But one link, 5 links or 10. They won't slip over unless the rollers get over the teeth 1st... That's one way of looking at it...

that makes me feel better.

also something i did was i marked the bright links and corresponding marks on the gear (sprocket, whatever it's called) with white model paint, so that when I was "peeking" at it through the valence it was alot easier to see, the "bright" links disappear with a work light directed at it...not cool.